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Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 4:00:19 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
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From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		Whenever I'm prescribed a new drug one of the first things I do is read up on the side effects.  About a year maybe a year and a half ago.  Doc told me to the take Simvastatin to reduced my lipid count.

So I read up on it the side effects didnt seem to awful so I started taking 40 mg a day which is a HUGE dose.   I called the doc the very next day with symptoms of some of the side effects ie muscle weakness and nausea.  Doc was like keep taking it.  I remember thinking this is nutz. I am not taking this stuff if I am going to feel like this.  So I reduced my dose to 20 mg a day <actually more like a couple times a week cuz my lipid count was "fine" and I don't want to take any more drugs than I have to> and the side effects eased considerably.  I actually gave wade a years supply of Simvastatin cuz i only took it a couple times a week.

So last spring a trip to ER for heart. everything Fine   Summer still having issues Chest X ray blood work another EKG, stress test. heart monitor for 3 weeks.  You name the heart test I have prolly had it TWICE.  One Doc told me stress test was exceptional.  Another doc asked me if i was a athlete, laffed and told him uhhh not so much.

Started going to the gym in November mild workout sent my body into not such a good place.  Let me tell you heart palpitations will scare the hell out of you.  Imagine your heart feeling like it's going to beat right out of your chest. I liken it to take a hammer smash your thumb that intense throbbing is what your chest feel like. Most times HP are nothing to be concerned about.  Operative words are "most times"

Met again with heart doc early December said keep working out but be "mindful of your body"  So Im like doc most times I have 3 of the 4 symptoms of a heart attack.  Tightness in chest, Heart palpations, Nausea.  The ONLY symptom I don't have is shortness of breath.  He prescribed a wonder drug that will not only stop HP.  It lowers the heart rate and reduces blood pressure.  Which after reading up on the drug I will not take.

Now keep in mind at least 5 different heart docs have looked at my file. 4 of the heart docs I met.  I spent over 3 hours consulting with 2 of the heart docs.  In other words not your typical 15 mins apt. I did hours of research as well I was very well informed.   So the whole time I'm thinking these docs have to be "missing something" 

I have countless hours on the web looking for possible causes of my heart issues. Finally I think I have it nailed Down.  It's prolly the Simvastatin or  a low potassium intake.  I reread the side effects of the drug and although they didn't bother me at first Im thinking about 4 to 5 months later is when my heart issues showed up.  So I  am drinking OJ and stopped the drug.  So who is the moron here, my six that's right 6 <including my primary care> freaking docs that missed the Simvastatin or the low potassium or me for not rechecking the side effects sooner?

According to the New England Journal of Medicine the VA health system is by any standard they measured is by far better than private health care.  Survival rates, preventive care, Treatment systems.  <The VA and the military health systems have nothing to do with each other>  The reason I bring this up is supposedly I was getting the best care in the US, And it still sucked,  According to WHO the World Health Org the US ranks 37 th in the world for health care.   Although we outspend as a percentage of Gross National Product at least 2 to 1.  Canada ranks 30th  France is # 1

As I was explaining to mom and her ER doc as I thought she was getting really lousy care during her 2nd visit to ER in a week.  Doctors are not nearly as smart as you think at least in the US.  And prolly more Important as Dad used to say "Doctors bury their mistakes".  According to dad the killed his dad.  They almost killed mom when they misdiagnosed her hernia when in actuality her heart was blocked 90 % It is your best interest to keep a sharp eye on your doc.

If I can prevent one misdiagnosed person It will have been worth it.

BadOne





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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 4:11:23 AM   
sirsholly


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Status: offline 		Thank you for this, BadOne. It never fails to amaze me that there are people who would never think of questioning a doctor...assuming he/she is always correct.




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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 4:12:58 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I would have guessed anxiety as in a psychotrophic.

Always participate in your med care.

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 4:14:33 AM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sirsholly

Thank you for this, BadOne. It never fails to amaze me that there are people who would never think of questioning a doctor...assuming he/she is always correct.





and then there are defiant people like me that question EVERYTHING. lol

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 4:20:28 AM   
Level


Posts: 25145
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Status: offline 		Lowering cholesterol is pretty much a farce, in terms of doing anything for your health.

The only benefit statins give is in reduction of inflammation, and there are far safer things to take and do in order to get the same results.

OP, glad you avoided anything overly serious.

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 4:24:09 AM   
DesFIP


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From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Doctors are not the best people to ask about possible side effects or drug interactions. Pharmacists are the people to ask.

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 4:30:09 AM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline 		Des you are correct and in order to get the drug  VA prescribes you HAVE to meet with the pharm tech.  In this case is was NOT drug interaction it was the side effects.  I just want ppl to realize 6 different docs missed it.  So it is imperative that you do your own research.  All the Best.

BadOne


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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 4:37:18 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		....and doctors may not be aware of all side effects which is why it's always best to call a pharmacist. I'm not saying that the doctors didn't fuck up but personally I would have called a pharmacist and asked if the symptoms might be due to the Simvastin.

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 5:30:36 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		well the US model for health care is to sell the most possible pills at the highest possible cost.




if they work- then that threatens the model.....

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 5:34:32 AM   
Hillwilliam


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I kinda enjoy reading up on drug side effects because there are some doozies out there.  One of My favorites is "anal seepage".  I guess that means white pants are a nono

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 5:38:36 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
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From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

well the US model for health care is to sell the most possible pills at the highest possible cost.




if they work- then that threatens the model.....



That doesn't mean we have to take them. Take responsibility and ask your pharmacist....who incidently will tell you if there are interactions. Oh and btw not all doctors just throw pills at their patient. Sometimes....often....it is the patient who insists on pills. For example, the person who insists on an antibiotic for a cold.


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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 5:44:16 AM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Lowering cholesterol is pretty much a farce, in terms of doing anything for your health.



Agreed.  I have very high cholesterol on both sides of my family.  And no history of heart disease in the family.

I took nothing for my cholesterol for years.  I took Lipitor for it for a while (mother's deathbed request) and it screwed up my liver.  Four months of no Lipitor, and my liver was back to normal.

There are two ways to have high cholesterol - from stuff you eat (fried foods, red meats, fats) and from your body's production of it.  As long as it comes from your body's production, you're okay.


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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 5:47:46 AM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		There are such a thing as iatrogenic diseases: caused, maintained and / or exacerbated by physicians.

I just today paid 940 euro´s for my obligatory health insurance for this year. I hate being insured, for I know that most of this money will be used to make more people sick or sicker and may contribute to killing them, as nearly happened to you. I am by law obliged to pay an insurance company to cause iatrogenic diseases in other people. Whereas I know that them medical morons cannot cure me and I would rather die in some gutter than ever be incarcerated in one of them inhumane hospitals.

Shoot all physicians and this world will be a better and healthier place! Hang them from the highest trees!

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 5:52:32 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

Lowering cholesterol is pretty much a farce, in terms of doing anything for your health.



Agreed.  I have very high cholesterol on both sides of my family.  And no history of heart disease in the family.

I took nothing for my cholesterol for years.  I took Lipitor for it for a while (mother's deathbed request) and it screwed up my liver.  Four months of no Lipitor, and my liver was back to normal.

There are two ways to have high cholesterol - from stuff you eat (fried foods, red meats, fats) and from your body's production of it.  As long as it comes from your body's production, you're okay.



Thats funny.   Lipitor fried my liver as well.

After that - I very much do my own homework.

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 7:30:11 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline 		A question for Steven and Hunky, you say Lipitor fried your livers, were regular blood tests to assess liver function done? I ask this because it is the norm to do so.

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 7:37:05 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

A question for Steven and Hunky, you say Lipitor fried your livers, were regular blood tests to assess liver function done? I ask this because it is the norm to do so.


Yes- that is how it was discovered.    My liver is now back to normal.  but it was scary to learn the med was wrecking it.

I was on 20 mg=- then bumped to 30 mg. then the blood test   discovered the liver was off.  I had never ever had any liver question prior.

Luckily on me- there was no serious damage.

I do not beleive in this class of drugs.   I once thought it extended life.   I now think it was possibly sloppy science.



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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 7:42:14 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		I am pretty good at getting routine check ups.

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 8:00:55 AM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

A question for Steven and Hunky, you say Lipitor fried your livers, were regular blood tests to assess liver function done? I ask this because it is the norm to do so.


Yes- that is how it was discovered.    My liver is now back to normal.  but it was scary to learn the med was wrecking it.

I was on 20 mg=- then bumped to 30 mg. then the blood test   discovered the liver was off.  I had never ever had any liver question prior.

Luckily on me- there was no serious damage.

I do not beleive in this class of drugs.   I once thought it extended life.   I now think it was possibly sloppy science.





So maybe it was a bit of an exaggeration that your liver was "fried"? If so, you would have needed a transplant


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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 8:07:21 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

A question for Steven and Hunky, you say Lipitor fried your livers, were regular blood tests to assess liver function done? I ask this because it is the norm to do so.


Yes- that is how it was discovered.    My liver is now back to normal.  but it was scary to learn the med was wrecking it.

I was on 20 mg=- then bumped to 30 mg. then the blood test   discovered the liver was off.  I had never ever had any liver question prior.

Luckily on me- there was no serious damage.

I do not beleive in this class of drugs.   I once thought it extended life.   I now think it was possibly sloppy science.





So maybe it was a bit of an exaggeration that your liver was "fried"? If so, you would have needed a transplant




I am tiffed over it- because I might have ignored the blood work.   My late grandmother had liver trouble.

Had I known how fast the damage can occur from a simple lipitor pill- I would have refused it from day 1.

I think I was 35 at the time.

....no liver replacement needed.

:-)

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RE: Who is the Moron here? - 1/5/2010 9:38:00 AM   
girlygurl


Posts: 6973
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From: in the palms of His hands
Status: offline 		Prior to my primary care physician diagnosing my gall bladder attacks as FOS (full of shit) yep, that's his actual term, I considered doctors as people of extreme knowledge. What the doctor said "had to be truth."
Then came shoulder surgery for a rotator cuff injury, which resulted in the grave mistake by an anesthesiologist who severed a nerve, which resulted in paralysis of my right diaphragm and a damaged right lung.

I won't say medical professionals are "evil doers" however, I will say I do not take their word as law. I question what they say, what they do, and their motives.

I am a huge advocate of self education when it comes to my own health and those close to me. I don't pretend to be a medical professional but there are resources available to me to become educated so when I do talk to a doctor I can ask educated questions.

I think my generation and generations before me came from a mindset that doctors knew what they were talking about all the time. Unfortunately for them, when they make a bad decision it may result in a persons health declining or even worse ... death! Yes they are human and make mistakes, and yes, I value those individuals that make a difference in the medical field. I'm having a hard time balancing my feelings between the jackasses that shouldn't be touching another person verses those who make a life changing difference to someone's health.

One last thing, I found that if I don't ask the question, doctors are more likely not to divulge the information that I may want or need to make an educated decision.

OK, one more last thing.... I did find a fantastic Thoracic surgeon who performed surgery on me last October which has allowed me to breathe easier and gain some of my right lung back, but my right diaphragm is permanently paralyzed. I did not go into this surgery with one eye open. I sought second and third opinions, saw several specialists and underwent many tests before going under the knife again. After all, what got me into that position in the first place was going under the knife. Sometimes ya win sometimes you don't.

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