RE: Airport Security (Full Version)

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LafayetteLady -> RE: Airport Security (1/6/2010 7:02:14 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

We have much to learn from the way the Israelis do it. They train their staff to observe people for signs of stress: it makes so much more sense. But we won't do that, because there are millions of dollars to be made contracting for fucking lethal X-rays machines that will give cancer to frequent flyers... fucking hell!

Fuck it.

(Can you tell I'm angry [>:] ?)


Airplane security with AK-47s is a great deterrent.

You can be a seasoned traveler, someone who never got on a plane. I believe the laws were added to make it more difficult for problems to occur. Yes, if someone really wants to blow up the plane, they will find a way. But the exaggerations out of anger are just silly.

Everything is not some giant conspiracy for one corporate giant or another to make money. When there are really issues that need to be resolved, the last person anyone is going to listen to is a conspiracy theorist. Why? Because it makes a person sound ridiculous.




heartcream -> RE: Airport Security (1/6/2010 7:21:12 PM)

]
quote:

Everything is not some giant conspiracy for one corporate giant or another to make money. When there are really issues that need to be resolved, the last person anyone is going to listen to is a conspiracy theorist. Why? Because it makes a person sound ridiculous.


It is convenient to call someone a conspiracy theorist who disagrees with your apparent point of view and implementation of this same point of view. There are some points of view you would say sound ridiculous and the exact opposite is true to me.




kittinSol -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 5:15:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady
Everything is not some giant conspiracy for one corporate giant or another to make money. When there are really issues that need to be resolved, the last person anyone is going to listen to is a conspiracy theorist. Why? Because it makes a person sound ridiculous.


Everything is NOT some giant conspiracy, but I still find it very cute that you are so trusting of the corporations and ignorant of their power to sway policies.

"Known by their opponents as "digital strip search" machines, the full-body scanners use one of two technologies—millimeter wave sensors or backscatter x-rays—to see through clothing, producing ghostly images of naked passengers. Yet critics say that these, too, are highly fallible, and are incapable of revealing explosives hidden in body cavities—an age-old method for smuggling contraband. If that’s the case, a terrorist could hide the entire bomb works within his or her body, and breeze through the virtual strip search undetected. Yesterday, the London Independent reported on "authoritative claims that officials at the [UK] Department for Transport and the Home Office have already tested the scanners and were not persuaded that they would work comprehensively against terrorist threats to aviation." A British defense-research firm reportedly found the machines unreliable in detecting "low-density" materials like plastics, chemicals, and liquids—precisely what the underwear bomber had stuffed in his briefs. 
Yet the rush toward full-body scans already seems unstoppable. They were mandated today as part of the "enhanced" screening for travelers from selected countries, and hundreds of the machines are already on order, at a cost of about $150,000 apiece. Within days of the bombing attempt, Reuters was reporting that the "greater U.S. government shift toward using the high-tech devices could create a boom for makers of security imaging products, and it has already created a speculative spike in share prices in some companies."

Which brings us to the money shot. The body scanner is sure to get a go-ahead because of the illustrious personages hawking them. Chief among them is former DHS secretary Michael Chertoff, who now heads the Chertoff Group, which represents one of the leading manufacturers of whole-body-imaging machines, Rapiscan Systems. For days after the attack, Chertoff made the rounds on the media promoting the scanners, calling the bombing attempt "a very vivid lesson in the value of that machinery"—all without disclosing his relationship to Rapiscan. According to the Washington Post:

Chertoff’s advocacy for the technology dates back to his time in the Bush administration. In 2005, Homeland Security ordered the government’s first batch of the scanners—five from California-based Rapiscan Systems.

Today, 40 body scanners are in use at 19 U.S. airports. The number is expected to skyrocket at least in part because of the Christmas Day incident. The Transportation Security Administration this week said it will order 300 more machines.

In the summer, TSA purchased 150 machines from Rapiscan with $25 million in American Recovery and Reinvestment Act funds.

The Washington Examiner last week ran down an entire list of all the former Washington politicians and staff members who are now part of what it calls the "full-body scanner lobby": 

One manufacturer, according to the Cleveland Plain Dealer, is American Science & Engineering, Inc. AS&E has retained the K Street firm Wexler & Walker to lobby for "federal deployment of security technology by DHS and DOD." Individual lobbyists on this account include former TSA deputy administration Tom Blank, who also worked under House Speaker Newt Gingrich.


Chad Wolf—former assistant administrator for policy at TSA, and a former aide to Kay Bailey Hutchison, R-Tex., a top Senate appropriator and the ranking Republican on the transportation committee—is also lobbying on AS&E’s behalf.
Smiths Detection, another screening manufacturer, employs top transportation lobbying firm Van Scoyoc Associates, including Kevin Patrick Kelly, a former top staffer to Sen. Barbara Mikulski, D-Md., who sits on the Homeland Security Appropriations subcommittee. Smiths also retains former congresswoman Helen Delich Bentley, R-Md.
Former Sen. Al D’Amato, R-N.Y., represents L3 Systems, about which Bloomberg wrote today: "L-3 has ‘developed a more sophisticated system that could prevent smuggling of almost anything on the body,’ said Howard Rubel, an analyst at Jefferies & Co., who has a ‘hold’ rating on the stock."

The airport scanner scam.

It's not because you're ignorant of the facts that those facts make a "conspiracy theory". Aren't you one of those people that are overly suspicious of government? Your eagerness to strip naked in front of the authorities comes across as rather naive. Will you let little children go through those machines? How will you regulate the amount of radiation frequent flyers are exposed to?

As a frequent flyer myself, and as the mother of a frequent flyer, I think my anger is totally justified.

Enjoy your strip-search.




barelynangel -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 5:29:53 AM)

Just out of curiosity kittinsol, since you seem to be the one who is utterly pissed off -- what steps are you taking or should others take to express their displeasure (grins outside the message board where it may do some good lol)? I am sure you have been writing people and places or organizing lobbying to help thwart all this stuff yes?

Maybe you could use this thread to help people who don't really know where to call, write, contact etc to help lobby against these changes? Are you boycotting flying as a protest? Can you help people contact the groups you are part of or other groups that are organizing to lobby against these changes? Are there protests being organized etc?

Many people know how to whinge and moan, because they don't know what to do or how to oppose such things. Perhaps you can use this thread even to help people with that, since i presume you are heavy involved with lobbying against all of this goins on?

angel




kittinSol -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 5:42:40 AM)

Did you READ the article I just linked?




barelynangel -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 5:48:39 AM)

Nope, it was your pissed off ness that made me even look at this thread -- i have read many articles on it. so i was curious more about what you are doing. People tend to be more apt to contribute when they disagree with something when they see what others (especially others they are familiar with on some level -- i.e., a type of personal connectoin even if it is nicknames on a message board) are doing to fight against what they don't want. If that makes sense. Maybe if you tell people what you are doing to thwart what you are so passionately and pissed off at, more people who have seen you posting on the boards may say hey -- if she is doing that it MUST do something. Most people feel that they are just ONE person can they make a difference -- so maybe you can clarify what you are doing and perhaps some others won't feel that way.

Can i ask what organizations you are a part of, what protesting you are doing and whom you are writing? As we all know just bitching about it won't get people very far but if you perhaps give people some ideas of what you have been doing instead of just being mad with them, it may help them realize that one person combined with many can make a difference.





kittinSol -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 6:05:20 AM)

Talk about derailing a thread, barely! What's your opinion on the subject? Would you let your child be scanned? Would you trust the security staff to do the right thing with every single image resulting from these scans? Do you really believe there is no large financial interest in promoting this technology? Are you in any way concerned over safety? Have you any articles that explain the positive aspects of these scanners? Are you enamoured with the idea of doing a digital strip for complete strangers? Your opinion on the subject fascinates the boards. Please, don't hold back.

Whilst I am very touched by your personal interest, to be perfectly frank, I am not in any way interested in sharing with you what I am doing about this. Take my word for it: I am not being idle. This should suffice more than amply [;)] .

Edited: I see that you edited your own post a couple of times to make it less personal. I really appreciate that. Still, I will keep my personal battles my own - I wouldn't want the freaks on these boards knowing where else I go for political punchbagging.




barelynangel -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 6:40:54 AM)

I am actually surprised at your blatant saying no to my questions. i know people who are passionate when lobbying against something, they don't just whinge about it, they also insert little things about what people should be doing to change it, etc. THEY DON'T blatantly say no i am not going to share what i am doing, unless of course they are all talk. They usually USE any venue to get people to help them. Not be unwilling to share the information, especially when asked. I wasn't asking you to share it with me. i haven't made a decision on what i think about it yet and being involved in politics most of my life and law most my life i know what to do if i decide to lobby against it. But i am not lobbying against it - so i don't have the specific information and i am not doing anything right now. I was asking lol in all actuality to HELP the cause you are so passionate about figuring it may recruit people even on a most anonymous level. But its not my fight so lol oh well.

As for my child being scanned, i don't know. Probably yes, if that is implemented and i wanted to go somewhere on a plane. To me its a question of is my child worth my personal freedoms? People promote all kinds of technology for money kittinsol, the very fact you are using a computer benefits someone, do you seriously believe there is NO large financial interest in same. This is really nothing new. Oh but wait, you LIKE this technology? For PEOPLE its about money. What i don't like is these machines may take more jobs away from people. Safety is a give and take with me. Some days i think its necessary and some days i don't, but i also work in law kittinsol, and we live in a country of blame. And we have created a protect your ass concept even within the government. To me, i think the PEOPLE have created an atomosphere where it holds the government solely responsible for everything that to me, the government has a high liability IF something goes wrong. So financial interest or not, i think on many levels situations like this cause them to create a showing of DOING SOMETHING.

People like you perhaps kittinsol, would you sue the government and blame the government if the plane your child was on was blown up because someone got on board with a bomb? Would you make it all about money and blame versus your personal freedoms? Is YOUR child worth that, is your child worth your personal freedoms you believe are being taken away? Because she/he could very well be, there were children on the planes in 9/11, there are children on planes that are hijacked etc. Are you willing to sacrifice your child for your freedoms? If you are, then your decision is for you, if you aren't then maybe its not. All of this is pretty new to the US, but in the end, its the expectations of the people that MAY actually be driving this and not just financial interest for technology.

Seriously, if you are actually DOING something, i wish you luck. I enjoy when people fight for something they are passionate about and even if i am not for it, its nice to see.
angel




heartcream -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 7:27:50 AM)

Having an opinion on something is valid. Someone need not act on it in an overt way in order to have worth and even effect change.

Change does not only (and often seems to never) happen by someone writing letters and the like, change can happen as consciousness shifts. Venting can help this, expressing opinions can. Some people who have uncovered the hidden malevolent agenda of those pretending otherwise have ended up with a death sentence, even the death certificate has it listed as Accidental.

Personal freedom is personal freedom. Twisted crap going on at the airport, (or anywhere) dodgy unloving intent is not okay guised as protecting my personal freedom. Uncovering the truth in all of this would reveal far more than someone trying to protect us from the boogie man.




barelynangel -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 8:53:45 AM)

heartcream, i disagree, to me, if someone is THAT passionate about something and dislike something that much and do nothing but whinge about it rather than actively moving for change -- especially with regard to governmental issues, are people who simply like to whinge instead of working for change.  To me, those people are people who would rather someone else do the work and then they whinge about changes OTHERS move to make.

Sure opinions are fine, but to me, opinions aren't much of anything unless you perform some action.   If you are content to give an opinion and then let others do the work, you really can't complain when things don't work out the way you want them too.  It comes back to that old saying -- talk is cheap.

The fact of the matter is, i believe the PEOPLE and the demands and BLAME they place on the government is what causes this panic everytime something happens.   Perhaps the PEOPLE should start dealing with things differently and quit laying blame and instead work for a solution.  Right now the country is too divided between the people and the government and as long as that keeps on -- the less action the easier it is to drown out the voices.  

Opinions are good, but action gets things done.

angel




Wolf2Bear -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 9:18:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

heartcream, i disagree, to me, if someone is THAT passionate about something and dislike something that much and do nothing but whinge about it rather than actively moving for change -- especially with regard to governmental issues, are people who simply like to whinge instead of working for change.  To me, those people are people who would rather someone else do the work and then they whinge about changes OTHERS move to make.

Sure opinions are fine, but to me, opinions aren't much of anything unless you perform some action.   If you are content to give an opinion and then let others do the work, you really can't complain when things don't work out the way you want them too.  It comes back to that old saying -- talk is cheap.

The fact of the matter is, i believe the PEOPLE and the demands and BLAME they place on the government is what causes this panic everytime something happens.   Perhaps the PEOPLE should start dealing with things differently and quit laying blame and instead work for a solution.  Right now the country is too divided between the people and the government and as long as that keeps on -- the less action the easier it is to drown out the voices.  

Opinions are good, but action gets things done.

angel


The bolded statement sums it up nicely and I do agree with you barelynangel. Yes we fallible humans always have an opinion on one subject or another. Yet it also takes a person who has that little extra "umphf" to take the next step and being proactive regarding an issue which they are passionate about.

It was also in the news here that the major airports in Canada are also planning to install these expensive high tech x-ray scanners in the airports such as Toronto Int'l and Vancouver I believe and Montreal. Granted I am very skeptical on whether these scanners are as good as the "experts" say they are yet I personally can't get overly upset because of this rush to better detect potential contraband items hidden on a passenger. Since my major avenue of traveling is either train or bus, being scanned at an airport is irrelevant to me-that is NOT apathy on my part...I do not fly.

Now if these scanners were being installed at train and bus depots and they began to implement full body scans of that nature, then I definitely will be raising a ruckus with my member of parliament at the invasion of my personal privacy. Because then it would be directly affecting me and the mode of travel I use.




heartcream -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 2:16:31 PM)

Stating concern, displeasure, discomfort, fear, frustration, anger, rage, resistance, reluctance, distrust can be neatly summed up in the words whinge, whine and whatever else you want to label it.

I disagree. I find this point of view nothing more than a judgment made by the person listening to someone speak about how they feel about something. Talk is far from cheap. Sometimes the receptacle it comes out of is though, so that is part of the equation to consider.

If writing letters, parading and that sort of thing really worked we would have this ol glorious world right long time.

It is more complicated than even government/people.

It is not as simple as action gets stuff done. It is all more complicated than this and a little toss of a phrase is not going to cover it. Finding who/what is truly to blame and being able to expose it in a way that would really help the situation would be great but even knowing who is to blame can be a tricky project to complete.





Jeffff -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 2:17:59 PM)

Beautiful....




Jeff




barelynangel -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 3:54:27 PM)

Again Heartcream, i disagree.   I have found that when people put ACTION to changing things they wish to rather than just ranting and raving and stomping their feet, things DO get accomplished, our whole country is based on that fact, i mean look at who is putting action instead of words and getting things accomplished.  Hint -- those people who are actually putting their plan into place.   They are actually providing actions and getting something done.  I never said people couldn't have good, bad, ugly opinions, but to me, if it is something they feel THAT passionately about it, use that passion for action.

I am always amused when people try and accuse others of being judgmental, i always wonder how they can do same without realizing that by saying that they are in fact being judgmental themselves.   Sometimes catch 22's suck, yes?  Did you ever notice this accusation comes against someone when someone is speaking AGAINST what the person who laid the claim of someone being judgmental.  I never see people who agree say one or the other is being judgmental.  Interesting, yes?  Last i checked all points of views and opinions are for and against things therefore judgmental in the most basic sense.

Personally, i think this country as a whole, people and government talks too much.  Everyone's out for something, some people just aim higher than others, while others see things as unattainable.

BTW, the problem is MOST people don't write the letters, lobbying *which is not parading* and protesting.   So i am not sure where you believe that once people did and it just didn't work. 

Anyway, disagree or not, i have seen what works in the political arena and it ain't talkin`, its doin.  Thiis actually is a perfect example lol the government is taking action, - what do you think is needed to counter same if that's what a person's wish is?  White noise erm i mean words?

THIS situation is all about how much people are willing to SACRIFICE for their freedoms and what they see those freedoms as.    This is a tough situation, for both the government and the people. 

angel




heartcream -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 6:43:29 PM)

J. Speer-Williams
Infowars.com
January 7, 2010

Mainstream Doctors Fritz-Albert Popp and Bruce Lipton both tell us that our DNA appears to be the vital link between our physicality and spirituality. Dr. Popp, founder of the International Institute of Biophysics, at Neuss, Germany, and Dr. Lipton, of the University of Wisconsin, both confirm that modern science now realizes and recognizes that our DNA structures directly reflect our consciousness, making it possible for us to willfully activate what science formerly called “junk” DNA, by increasing our individual consciousnesses.

By activating dormant DNA, one would likely be able to perceive life beyond their five physical senses of sight, hearing, taste, touch, and smell; and one’s world of spiritual intuition, discernment, judgement, and wisdom begin to develop.

The more we learn about the negative intentions of the dark forces of our world, the more we wake up spiritually, and the more our “junk” DNA activates, if we are not overcome with negativity and fear ourselves. Fear blocks any possible expansion of consciousness, which explains the constant fear-mongering promoted by the International Monetary/Banking Cartel’s corporate media, resulting in the severe stunting of our universal consciousness.

The Cartel’s silent, soft-kill weapons of mass DNA destruction are all around us. Depleting uranium, chemtrails, street and pharmaceutical drugs, vaccines, genetically modified foods, fluorides, aspartames, psychotropics, and now naked body scanners are used against us for a very basic reason: To keep us from waking up to their crimes by damaging our DNAs.

The Cartel’s latest cloaked attack against mankind are their so-called Backscatter X-ray Machines, that expose the naked bodies of children, women and men at busy airport security portals; all based on the flimsy ploy of simply one “crotch bomber” at Christmas time of ‘09 in Detroit. Now suddenly, these Backscatter machines will be showing up at over 125 US airports.

These virtual strip searches, in addition to damaging our DNAs, will be setting the stage for the expansion of our world-wide cancer epidemic. Any amount of radiation is dangerous, as it is cumulative, and poses a serious threat to all living cells through which it passes, leaving behind a trail of destruction and genetic mutations.

The Backscatter doesn’t actually emit X-rays, but little tested T-rays, or THz waves (terahertz waves), which is radiation that is positioned between microwaves and infrared rays on the electromagnetic spectrum. And as would be expected, the Cartel’s scientists and corporate media have ensured that whether or not T-rays severely damage biological systems is to be a controversial subject: this is the usual Cartel stratagem whenever their agenda is on shaky grounds.

Boian Aleandrov, of the Center for Nonlinear Studies at Los alamos National Laboratory, however, has a very decided opinion regarding the dangers of T-rays: He tells us that T-rays tear apart human DNA.

Alexandrov, and his team at Los alamos, say that although the forces that T-rays exert are small, their resonant effects can “unzip” DNA strands, tearing them apart, thus creating bubbles in the strands that significantly interfere with gene expression and DNA replication. And whatever that means, it doesn’t sound good.

Moreover, it seems these T-ray scanners will be operated by non-healthcare, hourly wage-earners, not trained in radiation medicine or imaging. And who is to prevent massive radiation overdoses? What protection will be offered to pregnant women, children, or our reproductive organs?

If you are like me, it’s beginning to appear obvious that some power has far more interest in damaging our DNAs, than keeping us safe while flying




Wolf2Bear -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 7:40:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: heartcream

Stating concern, displeasure, discomfort, fear, frustration, anger, rage, resistance, reluctance, distrust can be neatly summed up in the words whinge, whine and whatever else you want to label it.
Please understand that yes I did agree with barelynangel regarding that people who are vocally opposed to the screening also need to take that extra step and be proactive on top of expressing their sense of rights being violated. Yet I did not accuse anyone, least of all you of whining.

I disagree. I find this point of view nothing more than a judgment made by the person listening to someone speak about how they feel about something. Talk is far from cheap. Sometimes the receptacle it comes out of is though, so that is part of the equation to consider.
Yet complaining to local and federal politicians, writing letter campaigns and massive amounts of petitions do have some effect to affect changes in the system that we as voting citizens feel are wrong. Talk is never cheap unless it is done in a non productive manner. Venting is good and as one who will do whatever is necessary to fight for what I believe is right and just, I know that I also have to take those extra steps to be more than just another voice lost among the masses. 

If writing letters, parading and that sort of thing really worked we would have this ol glorious world right long time.

It is more complicated than even government/people.
Yet it is also less complicated as we are the ones who put those people in governmental positions. Yes writing letters, parading around in protests do work....a good example is when women protested for the right to vote, they protested and wrote letters to gain equal rights, The LGBT community also used letter writing/protests/petitioning politicians to gain all of the rights we have now.


It is not as simple as action gets stuff done. It is all more complicated than this and a little toss of a phrase is not going to cover it. Finding who/what is truly to blame and being able to expose it in a way that would really help the situation would be great but even knowing who is to blame can be a tricky project to complete.
NO! Action does get things done. As I see it, the tricky part is knowing when to take action and using action in  a positive manner which produces positive results. Even when we do not know specifically who to blame, there are always a hierarchy to any business/corporation  and it's a matter of choosing an appropriate starting part that will produce results we want.








kittinSol -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 7:56:05 PM)

Thanks for that, heartcream.




LafayetteLady -> RE: Airport Security (1/7/2010 8:34:34 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
Everything is NOT some giant conspiracy, but I still find it very cute that you are so trusting of the corporations and ignorant of their power to sway policies.



Well isn't that sweet of you. Of course large corporations have power to sway policies. But it isn't all about money. Money plays a part in everything, that's just reality. But drug companies aren't keeping the cure for cancer a secret so they can make money. Thinking that we really CAN cure the common cold, but then no one would need cold remedies and the pharmaceutical companies would take a hit is ridiculous.

These scanners are going to make some large corporations money, no doubt about it. But if you honestly think that is why it is being done, then I can't help you.


quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
It's not because you're ignorant of the facts that those facts make a "conspiracy theory". Aren't you one of those people that are overly suspicious of government? Your eagerness to strip naked in front of the authorities comes across as rather naive. Will you let little children go through those machines? How will you regulate the amount of radiation frequent flyers are exposed to?


Once again, you feel the need to call me ignorant. No I'm not "overly" suspicious of the government, and I don't recall saying that I'm eager to strip for authorities. People have been getting x-rays and stuff for a very long time. Perhaps you know some statistics that show all those people who have gotten x-rays are unknowingly running around with radiation poisoning?

Being angry about something is all fine and dandy. I've been angry about things. But I didn't sit back and complain about it. I did something about it and some changes were made. And before you go off on another insult, I worked towards getting some laws changed in my state, so it wasn't some little thing.

Most people who sit and say that writing letters and protesting won't do anything are the ones who can't be bothered to get off their asses to work towards change. The problem with this country is not our imperfect government, it isn't the large corporations who are hiding everything so they can make more money. It's the citizens who are unhappy but do nothing but whine and complain.

You jump on angel asking what SHE is doing to change it. Here's a thought...she isn't the one ranting about it. Perhaps that you are proving my point entirely. YOU aren't happy about it, but think angel should be working towards changing what it is that you don't like, and then rudely state how you wouldn't share what you are doing, but you aren't sitting idly by. No, you aren't sitting idly by, you are complaining on a message board to a bunch of people who aren't in a position to do anything. You are in such a tiff over the whole thing it wouldn't be reasonable for you to say that you have written to your local congressman, or joined a large lobby group that is fighting for change.

barelynangel made very good points, she didn't insult you, she asked you reasonable questions. You came off sounding a bit like a ranting lunatic to me and I said so. So you post articles by people who are in agreement with your position, which by the way, don't provide factual statistical date, and you call me ignorant and throw a few insults angel's way.

I repeat, when someone wants change, the way they go about it makes all the difference in the world. Based on your statements and comments here, I hope you are the one speaking to anyone who could make changes, because they would dismiss you quickly.

Being a frequent flyer isn't your right. It is perhaps more convenient for you for work purposes, perhaps you just enjoy traveling. Honestly, I wouldn't want to be a hijacker on a plane that you were traveling on. You would begin screaming insults and get everyone killed.

heartcream,

While I agree that the risks for pregnant women need to be clarified, the article you present is not exactly from some medical journal. It is from someone against the scanners, so it isn't based on fact, it is based on someone skewing the facts to support their point. Not very convincingly either.

For everyone who has that big of an issue with it. Don't fly so much. That would be the simplest thing to get the problem solved. Boycott flying. Since according to you it is all about the money, how much money would be lost if y'all refused to fly anywhere? If enough people agree with you (which is questionable to being with), and all of you didn't get on the planes and fly, then the almighty profits would suffer and they would listen. But that would indeed inconvenience you more than the scanners because you WANT to get on the plane and fly to your destination. You can't have it both ways.

Me? I'm like Wolf2Bear and don't fly all that much. I am planning a trip to Germany next year and if they are going to use a full body scanner on me before I get on the plane, then so be it. I'm not concerned about what they might do with the photos of my cloudy naked body.




stella41b -> RE: Airport Security (1/8/2010 7:33:52 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Perhaps the PEOPLE should start dealing with things differently and quit laying blame and instead work for a solution.  Right now the country is too divided between the people and the government and as long as that keeps on -- the less action the easier it is to drown out the voices.  

Opinions are good, but action gets things done.



This would be fine but there is no 'PEOPLE' to speak about, for the solidarity among the people is a myth, you just have people who are bitterly opposed to each other, and mistrustful and suspicious of others. Liberal and neocon for example?

This is exactly how it was in Eastern Europe under the Soviet Bloc - people who are motivated by fear but suspicious of each other - and it keeps everything in place.

The only solidarity you're going to find among people in society is right at the very bottom of it, where the people have nothing left to lose. But this solidarity isn't ever going to take place unless people learn to overcome their fears and prejudices concerning those worse off than them and learn to trust them and relate to them as people again.




barelynangel -> RE: Airport Security (1/8/2010 8:39:07 AM)

Hi Stella, that isn't what i meant.  I don't mean necessary the people should all agree on ever point, i am saying that the PEOPLE should start individually putting their words to actions and more than likely others will be found by doing so and pretty soon it will come down to the majority rule rather than the divided nation as we have where the government BECAUSE the people aren't doing anything but sitting around whinging and moaning about what the government is doing, will exchange to the government if they wish to keep their jobs actually not working independently of the people -- which it is doing now. 

This is a solidarity in the US -- most of us do not like or appreciate things that are happening -- that in and of itself is a solidarity.   However that solidarity will only effect the government to viewing it as something to notice and pay attention to, if that solidarity is a moving force rather than a white noise one.  When the people start taking actions that will make the government start seeing them as partners who need to be satisfied rather than children who need to be passified for the moment abd white noise only to be passified for election day, this will change.  Until then, white noise is easily ignored after a while with only occassional notice and annoyance.  But just like in any relationship, we won't be seen as partners unless we demand it of the government to recognize us as same.

There is solidarity, maybe not on individual topics but over all.

angel




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