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RE: Airport Security - 1/10/2010 1:07:11 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

I admit I didn't vote. Not for Obama or McCain or anyone else. I also don't complain about what Obama is doing or not doing. I didn't vote at all, so I can't complain about the results. Do I laugh when Sarah Palin makes an ass out of herself? Of course, doesn't everyone?


Actually my only interest thus far on this is the quoted statement. We to did not vote in this past election. Why? Because neither of us believed Either candidate put forth was right for the job at this present time. While some, no actually probably Many believe this was non-action and therefore negates our right to moan about what is currently being done..We find that this is completely the wrong analogy because in our so called non-action..we committed the highest action to show disapproval..the act of non-action.

Imagine the actual show of American displeasure if the majority of people chose non-action in the voting process. Can you imagine the statement that would of have expressed?

starshine


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(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 141
RE: Airport Security - 1/10/2010 1:16:44 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		I just looked up the complaint actually filed with the District Court which was filed on Dec 18, 2009, case # 1:09-cv-02394 assigned to Honorable Henry H. Kennedy for failure to comply with FOIA which for those who don't know is the Freedom of Information Act. In my opinion I would think MANY people would hope that EPIC LOSE this matter due to what they are requesting at least in part:

quote:

16. On July 2, 2009, EPIC transmitted via certified mail, a written FOIA request to the DOJ for agency records. EPIC requested the following agency records:

a) All unfiltered or unobscured images captured using Whole Body Imaging techology.


For those people who are up in arms i am sure you should be throwing a caniption that EPIC believes they are required to receive these scans, if they exist. You better HOPE the DOJ wins this part otherwise scans will be given to EPIC. Let me make clear what EPIC is:

EPIC is a public interest research center in Washington, D.C. According to its corporate disclosure statement filed with the court it states that EPIC is a District of Columbia corporation with no parent company. No publically held company owns more than 10% of stock in EPIC (which means that some publically held company's actually can hold stock and be a member of EPIC) In otherwords its not held to any governmental standards or policies of confidentiality and/or privacy.

And it is fighting the government to receive scans of people who have already used the scanners. To me, for those concerned about privacy, i would think you would be very upset about this that a non-governmental entity believes that they as part of the public have a RIGHT to the scans. To me this is like them asking and believing they are entitled to people' ssn's. There are some things i fully beleve the government is entitled to keep confidential and not part o an FOIA request resp.

So people concerned about privacy do you not have an issue with EPIC having your scans and doing with them what they will? I didn't see anything in that complaint that stated they would be willing to sign a protective order in which they would have stipulations on how they could use the scans.

I understand people's concern about the scanners and privacy, and i hope there will be just as much outrage against EPIC for believing they as a public company have a right to the scanned images. Hopefully, for the sake of privacy, the government wins at least that portion.

The DOJ has filed a NOA but has not yet answered te Complaint. It will be interesting to see what their response is to same.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 1/10/2010 1:38:34 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 142
RE: Airport Security - 1/10/2010 3:05:17 PM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline 		FR - as I did barely read through the answers.

To the OP, I can't stand travelling. Living abroad from my family I used to travel alot back and forth until my grandparents passed away and since then I am in general quite fed up of travelling and avoid it when I can...

in regards to that airport security I am dreading it when I fly over to America next month...but well...there is nothing I can do about it...whilst I don't like the hassle, if it does help to prevent more disasters then it is ok...what is less ok is when they actually realise that those full body scanner are actually not as thorough yet as they claimed it to be...but they aim to fix that issue...fingers crossed for safety in this mad world

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The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

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(in reply to barelynangel)
Profile   Post #: 143
RE: Airport Security - 1/10/2010 3:41:08 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Well, I'm glad to see that a lawsuit has already been filed.

http://epic.org/foia/DOJ_USMS_Complaint.pdf

Full-body scanners: the good, the bad, the ugly. A pretty balanced article.


Yikes maing.

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(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 144
RE: Airport Security - 1/10/2010 3:41:46 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		barely, it would be nice if you stopped acting like more of an angel and less of a bitch.

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Profile   Post #: 145
RE: Airport Security - 1/10/2010 3:58:53 PM   
barelynangel


Posts: 6233
Status: offline 		Would be nice if you stopped acting like an ass, but like people in hell who want icewater, i doubt that will happen any time soon.

This is the last time i am responding to you until you show the BASIC courtesy of not fucking with my nickname because you want to be an ass. Your friends may think you are cute, i just think you are sad.

angel

< Message edited by barelynangel -- 1/10/2010 4:03:16 PM >

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What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us.
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Profile   Post #: 146
RE: Airport Security - 1/10/2010 4:09:06 PM   
thishereboi


Posts: 14463
Joined: 6/19/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

On the plus side, Muslims find our love of dogs incomprehensible since theyre unclean animals; thus they fear contact with dogs greatly. Since all Muslims are terrorists, (since all terrorists are Muslims), the chance of being touched by a dog should keep our airports free of terrorist threats. Since it is the threat of contact with dogs that will act as a deterrent, there should be no reason to insist all airport security dogs are trained.

Next week; how to keep Jews under control through opening your very own pig farm.

E


Interesting theory, however I met a muslim once and she was an angel. Can angels be terrorists?


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Profile   Post #: 147
RE: Airport Security - 1/10/2010 10:01:21 PM   
lazarus1983


Posts: 828
Joined: 2/25/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

Imagine the actual show of American displeasure if the majority of people chose non-action in the voting process. Can you imagine the statement that would of have expressed?



The majority of people DO choose non-action in the voting process, and have for several years.

The statement being made is apathy.


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(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 148
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 7:07:14 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

The statement being made is apathy.


Greetings..it is only apathy if that is your motivation. It is was not the motivation in our case. I have no idea if the majority of US citizens available to vote chose non-action..nor do I have any statistics to show this or any poll to prove their motivations..though I guess I could speculate.

starshine


_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to lazarus1983)
Profile   Post #: 149
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 7:14:49 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		Which is exactly why not voting makes no statement. It is assumed you don't care enough to take the time to make an intelligent decision. The powers that be don't know why you didn't vote.  it is only known that you did not take advantage of  the opportunity.

If 50%  of  people eligible to vote don't, all that says is that 50% of the people don't care


Jeff

< Message edited by Jeffff -- 1/11/2010 7:16:16 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 150
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 7:43:11 AM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Agreed..and those who wish to assume may do exactly that. It reminds me of the constant moaning about Saddam when we eventually took him out. The backlash always came..well we were the dipshits that stuck him in there to begin with. In the beginning the premise by myself..(not sure Masters thoughts) that..well when your faced with a decision of something has to be there..try to take the lesser of evils. Now in the hindsight..what real improvement was accomplished by taking that lesser of evils action?

Did you vote? Nope..how come? Because no value was seen in either. No issue here with telling why if asked..

Also don't believe this thought process of pushing a health care (what the hell ever through just cause we Have to show change) flys either. I think there are times when non-action is warranted versus just any old action so people don't assume.

Assume away..

starshine


_____________________________

"And in the end, it's not the years in your life that count. It's the life in your years." --Abraham Lincoln

(in reply to Jeffff)
Profile   Post #: 151
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 8:06:59 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		It is not my assumption that matters. It is those who seek to maintain the status quo.


Jeff

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Profile   Post #: 152
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 8:56:03 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: barelynangel

Would be nice if you stopped acting like an ass, but like people in hell who want icewater, i doubt that will happen any time soon.

This is the last time i am responding to you until you show the BASIC courtesy of not fucking with my nickname because you want to be an ass. Your friends may think you are cute, i just think you are sad.

angel


Good.   barely, I will look forward to the forums now proceeding in a much more orderly fashion now that you have removed yourself from the equation.

barely, be good.

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Profile   Post #: 153
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 3:09:21 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AlwaysLisa

Privacy is not my concern, heck, walk down any beach and you can get an eyefull of flesh.  I don't like the idea of someone else telling me having a full body scan is "safe", when just taking a picture of boobs or your teeth still has the technicians running for cover.

Lisa


Lisa, that is because they are taken lots and lots of x-rays per day, while you are getting one (in the case of dental) what? every 6-12 months? Kind of like why the danger of exhaust fumes is less walking down a busy street than if you attach a hose to it and start sucking.

The exposure to radiation isn't equal. If you have 100 x-rays in your life is not the equivalent of the technician that is exposed 100 times a day.

(in reply to AlwaysLisa)
Profile   Post #: 154
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 3:20:35 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: starshineowned

Imagine the actual show of American displeasure if the majority of people chose non-action in the voting process. Can you imagine the statement that would of have expressed?

starshine



Do you really think that would say something or better yet DO something? The minority who did vote would be the votes that were counted, and the only people to blame for that candidate's "win" would be all those people who did nothing.

Why not back some independent candidate that was within your approval? I realize they wouldn't win, but the publicity they would get would increase the next time and so on and so on.

Sorry but the "highest action" to show disapproval is not to do nothing. That may work within a small group of people, but when there are millions, it doesn't even get noticed. Now I know, your next thing is to say "that's why so many people should do what we did, remember our statement on the "majority" taking that stance?" Yes, I remember, and remember the results it would garner?

Make no mistake, I recognize that far too often in elections, one needs to choose the "lesser of two evils" but if you are going to wait until someone is going to stand up for every single one of your beliefs and not vote for them unless you agree with everything they have to say, it is never going to happen.

(in reply to starshineowned)
Profile   Post #: 155
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 3:26:46 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: lusciouslips19

I just dont like the idea of them having to scan me and they get to see my bloody tampon all because the beauracrats werent doing their job.


Do you even understand what can and can't be seen on these scanners? Tampons are worn internally and the image does not give a few of what is beneath the skin. It won't see your tampon, it won't see a pacemaker, it won't even see the pins in your leg from where you broke it skiing.

If you are going to argue against something, don't you think having a concept of how it actually works might it appear that you are making a logical argument?

What are you going to complain about next? That the scanner will be able to see that you are 4 months pregnant and some silly little security guard will congratulate you on having a particular gender baby when you didn't want to know?

(in reply to lusciouslips19)
Profile   Post #: 156
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 3:36:13 PM   
Shiroka


Posts: 51
Joined: 11/25/2008
Status: offline 		I cant stand it. I remember a day when you could go through and air port with sewing scissors i you bag ane not questioned about them(you know the ones,the big black or silver handled ones).

Last time I went through they tried to tell me the company I worked for reuested additional security check on me. I laughed for a moment and asked them, "Then who do I work for?" Of course they ost the conversation at that point and let me go through without the "additional screening".

So let it be said not to believe all they say at security checks and most of all, not matter how frequent you fly, always check for updates and whats allowed or not allowed.

< Message edited by Shiroka -- 1/11/2010 3:37:29 PM >

(in reply to heartcream)
Profile   Post #: 157
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 3:53:37 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Bingo. Plus, there is not a single iota of evidence that the wannabe Xmas bomber's device would have been detected by these scanners.

The Independent.


It also would not have been found with a pat down search either since it was in his underpants. Did you read and fully understand the article that you posted?

The article is against the scanners, yes, but they also say how the pat downs and other methods don't work. Rather they think that a "layering approach" would be better which would include the scanners, the pat downs and other methods deemed appropriate.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol
One sucidal IDIOT and we all fall apart in a fit of collective hysteria, ignoring the fact that full-body scan will prevent little to nothing, and demanding that we and our children be stripped searched as a matter of course?  Has our society gone completely fucking crazy at last?


You keep equating the scanners with a strip search. They are not. Saying they are is nothing more than an attempt to make it seem as bad as possible. A strip search involves a person literally standing naked before a stranger. When you have an x-ray in the hospital, they can see outlines of the body. You don't care though because it is a medical setting and you trust in the integrity of the person doing the x-ray. When my son fractured his lower spine a couple of years ago, I was in the room when they did the x-ray, behind the glass with the tech. I saw much more of my teenage son than I wanted to see. So did the x-ray tech. I didn't worry that the tech would take a copy of his x-ray, go home and jerk off to it or sell it to some kiddie porn site. He was doing his job, just as security at the airport is.

Trying to present the argument that our children will be "stripped searched," i.e. forced to remove their clothes in front of a stranger and stand there in their nudity while some stranger touches their body (which is the second part of a strip search by the way) is ludicrous.





Exactly what is seen in this image? By the way, when you posted this, were you the least bit concerned about violating this woman's privacy? Do you think she was hoping that her scanned image would appear on an adult BDSM website?

In order to demand privacy for yourself, you might think before you violate someone else's.

< Message edited by LafayetteLady -- 1/11/2010 3:54:50 PM >

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Profile   Post #: 158
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 3:55:51 PM   
starshineowned


Posts: 1551
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Texas
Status: offline
quote:

Sorry but the "highest action" to show disapproval is not to do nothing.


You are correct. We did do something by not doing anything. Sort of like the entire GOP not voting (last time I checked) on any of this health care business. It was action by non action. I don't have media coverage but if I did..I'd state exactly the reasons why just as I did and we have to persons we know and talk to everyday who ask the same question, and offer the same sound reasoning as you are. I do suppose we could of put a big ole sign in the front yard proclaiming it because that would surely make all the difference because now we went out and "showed" them suckers our displeasure. Sorry..just don't buy into that ..thats us, and as I said earlier..others may assume or feel however with all my support and agreement for their decisions.
I do not agree that such a decisions by persons either choosing a action of action or a action of non-action some how gives or negates their right to freedom of speech or dissent either.

Not here to change anyones mind nor seek agreement because I know it is completely off the majority path, and thats fine. It is what it is, and I've derailed more than I cared to..:/

starshine


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Profile   Post #: 159
RE: Airport Security - 1/11/2010 4:08:43 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Well, I'm glad to see that a lawsuit has already been filed.

http://epic.org/foia/DOJ_USMS_Complaint.pdf



Did you read the lawsuit? Do you understand what it says? Angel has provided you with the details on EPIC, whether you choose to read them or not.

This lawsuit does not promote your position. There is no mention of why they want the images. Perhaps like you did, they wish to post them all over the internet. They are seeking documents based on the Freedom of Information Act, which is just fine. How do you feel if YOUR image is one of the images they get? Do you feel violated? You should. The DOJ takes the images and files them away. The implication that they will be all over cyberspace has only seemed to occur when you posted the images yourself or when others trying to rally everyone against it posts them. But you don't think about that because it doesn't support your theory.

Getting on an airplane is not a RIGHT. It is a luxury that you CHOOSE to do. Airlines and airports are regluated by the government, but they are not "public places" that you have a "right" to be in.

It's nice to know that when you fly you will choose a "pat down" search and forego the scanners. It's also nice to know that you have learned that should you choose to bring something on to the plane that is not permitted, you know you can stuff it in your pants because even that female security guard, in PROTECTION OF YOUR PRIVACY, is not permitted to touch your genitals in any way.

You don't like the idea of the scanners, you have made that perfectly clear. But you have changed your reasoning just on this thread. First it was being done because of big corporate america to make money, then it was an issue of privacy.

What you don't seem to gather is that all your snide comments about ignorance and "lambs to slaughter" and your illogical comparisons to children being stripped search don't make anyone think that you are presenting an intelligent position.

When you add to that the very real fact that you didn't care enough about the woman's privacy in the scan that you posted, how can you expect anyone to listen to what you have to say? YOUR privacy is important, much more important than the woman's whose scan you posted.

I will repeat what I have said from the beginning. If you really are that bothered, stay the fuck off the plane. Flying is a choice, not a right.

(in reply to kittinSol)
Profile   Post #: 160
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