RE: what versus why

RE: what versus why (Full Version)

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BitaTruble -> RE: what versus why (1/8/2010 10:23:57 AM)
quote: What do you think? And . . . dare I say it . . . why? If you're submissive and your D-type and you disagree about whether the why matters, how do you deal with it? First, I think 'why' can be used as either justification or as an explaination. I would try to determine if 'why' matters because the explaination is important in context. Justification isn't necessarily a bad thing either. Again, it depends on context. That said, bottom line, he's the Master and if he said 'why' doesn't matter to him, then I just have to swallow that and deal with the consequences. That's what I signed on for when he collared me and I don't expect that I always get to make those sorts of determinations. Himself may ask me.. "I told you to go to the bank today and order more checks. Why didn't you do it?" Me .. "It's a holiday and the bank was closed." That would be an explaination and a justification of why I didn't do what he told me to do and he would (probably) find that acceptable. If my answer was "I ran out of time because I spent it reading the collarme boards" ... well, that wouldn't go over so well. ::grins:: Over all, being in an M/s relationship isn't always fair, but I don't expect it to be so that's okay. I "hope" to be allowed to explain my actions (if I can) and if there are mitigating factors I hope they will be taken into consideration as well. That's about the best I can do working with the tools at my disposal.

NihilusZero -> RE: what versus why (1/8/2010 10:28:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: BitaTruble Himself may ask me.. "I told you to go to the bank today and order more checks. Why didn't you do it?" Me .. "It's a holiday and the bank was closed." That would be an explaination and a justification of why I didn't do what he told me to do and he would (probably) find that acceptable. If my answer was "I ran out of time because I spent it reading the collarme boards" ... well, that wouldn't go over so well. ::grins:: This does well in highlighting the important difference between failure from genuine inability and failure from lack of effort/attentiveness.

DesFIP -> RE: what versus why (1/8/2010 5:11:58 PM)
Years ago on bondage.com forum a sub came on and told about how her relationship imploded because he wouldn't listen to why. She went to the doctor for an annual and a suspicious lump was discovered in her breast. She came home shell shocked to discover her dominant was all set for caning her breasts. She refused. He gave her no chance to explain, just started in on how she wasn't a good submissive, she wasn't obedient, she needed to rethink this or end the relationship. Later on he heard her crying on the phone asking her sister to come with her when she went for the biopsy, explaining that her dom wouldn't. The d/s ended at that moment because she couldn't trust him. She stayed with him then, she needed help during chemo and such, but he never got back the trust she had formerly had in him. All because he didn't ask why. I don't know if she survived, I doubt it because she dropped out of sight shortly thereafter. I hope in the years since he's had time to learn his lesson. So yeah, to some of us why is important.

NihilusZero -> RE: what versus why (1/8/2010 5:29:18 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP She went to the doctor for an annual and a suspicious lump was discovered in her breast. She came home shell shocked to discover her dominant was all set for caning her breasts. She refused. This makes no sense. Why on earth would the first words out of her mouth (unless she was viewing the situation as confrontational from the get go) be "No." and not "The doctor found a lump in my breast."? It's impossible to dissect an anecdotal scenario, but I have serious doubts these events could have happened without a lot of other mutually-responsible mistakes happening (including an initial preoccupation with refusal rather than explanation).

windchymes -> RE: what versus why (1/8/2010 5:38:48 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: NihilusZero quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP She went to the doctor for an annual and a suspicious lump was discovered in her breast. She came home shell shocked to discover her dominant was all set for caning her breasts. She refused. This makes no sense. Why on earth would the first words out of her mouth (unless she was viewing the situation as confrontational from the get go) be "No." and not "The doctor found a lump in my breast."? It's impossible to dissect an anecdotal scenario, but I have serious doubts these events could have happened without a lot of other mutually-responsible mistakes happening (including an initial preoccupation with refusal rather than explanation). I agree here.....why wouldn't she just tell him when she got home instead of making it into a big melodrama? If he's that heartless of a beast, then she's better off without him anyway. Sorry, but I can't help suspecting one of those "poor me" sub-dramas.

DesFIP -> RE: what versus why (1/8/2010 6:14:36 PM)
She wasn't given a chance. His first words weren't "hi honey, how was your day?" but "get your shirt off for me to cane you". When she said that she couldn't do that, he went off on her about how bad a sub she was, how she was ruining his day etc. Some people shut down when confronted by anger. I imagine she was one. I've done that myself, just stopped talking and shut down. The difference is that The Man, unlike my ex sees this and doesn't use it to get his way or at least not get any disagreement, he realizes it means there's a problem and he needs to find out what it is. And raging at people does not encourage them to be open with you.

cpK69 -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 6:18:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP Years ago on bondage.com forum a sub came on and told about how her relationship imploded because he wouldn't listen to why. She went to the doctor for an annual and a suspicious lump was discovered in her breast. She came home shell shocked to discover her dominant was all set for caning her breasts. She refused. He gave her no chance to explain, just started in on how she wasn't a good submissive, she wasn't obedient, she needed to rethink this or end the relationship. Later on he heard her crying on the phone asking her sister to come with her when she went for the biopsy, explaining that her dom wouldn't. The d/s ended at that moment because she couldn't trust him. She stayed with him then, she needed help during chemo and such, but he never got back the trust she had formerly had in him. All because he didn't ask why. I don't know if she survived, I doubt it because she dropped out of sight shortly thereafter. I hope in the years since he's had time to learn his lesson. So yeah, to some of us why is important. This story reminds me of someone I once dated. It wasn’t that he didn’t care about ‘why’, but that he felt he already had ‘why’ all figured out, the bigger problem was that he didn’t care about me. He showed me that by trashing the house before I had gotten home, and by demonstrating why ‘we’ don’t toss cinder blocks across the living room; ya might ‘accidently’ hit someone with it. (I’m alright)[:D] Kim

LafayetteLady -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 12:55:58 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: cpK69 quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP He showed me that by trashing the house before I had gotten home, and by demonstrating why ‘we’ don’t toss cinder blocks across the living room; ya might ‘accidently’ hit someone with it. (I’m alright)[:D] Kim Kim, I don't think you meant this to be funny, and I'm really glad you weren't terribly injured in the event, but I really had to laugh at this statement. Before I got to the end, I was figuring he would have "accidently" busted the sliding glass doors, walls, etc. and the cost of the repairs. On another note, it has been a couple days now, I wonder how lucy is doing and if they are working things through?

lucylucy -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 12:59:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady On another note, it has been a couple days now, I wonder how lucy is doing and if they are working things through? Aw, thanks for wondering. Things are good. [:)]

mnottertail -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 1:01:13 PM)
see? these fuckers be talking about you when you're gone.

domiguy -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 1:12:00 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy I think it's obvious from my OP that I know what I did was wrong. How helpful is it, really, to berate me for lying and tell me that I should take responsibility or that I should know lying is wrong? Duh, obviously I know that. I said that in my OP. My OP doesn't ask for your opinion of what I did. Frankly, your opinion of what I did doesn't matter one bit to me. The only opinion that matters is my boyfriend's. I am NOT asking for help in justifying what I did. There is nothing in my OP that indicates that. There is no justification for what I did. You're wasting your time and mine to tell me that. You are a needy self centered bitch. If someone I was seeing came out here and aired out her shit to the masses I would kick her to the curb. Why you lied does have a lot to do as to how you are peceived out here. All lies are not equal. If people cannot realize that they are douchebags. Now, I never would want a sub to lie to me. But, let me tell you fuckes something...All ommissions of truth are not close to deal breakers. There is an old guard rule when it comes to this type of shit....The extent that lie will damage a relationship is to take the size of the lie subtract out the size of the offending subs ass and multiply by pi. If her ass still looks good you might let her slide.

RedMagic1 -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 1:20:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy If someone I was seeing came out here and aired out her shit to the masses I would kick her to the curb. I haven't read the thread. However, this statement I quoted is true for me as well. Airing dirty laundry in cyber is not something that attracts me. Lucy, you could probably have avoided a lot of message-board drama if you had created a blank profile specifically to ask relationship-type questions.

lucylucy -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 1:35:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 Lucy, you could probably have avoided a lot of message-board drama if you had created a blank profile specifically to ask relationship-type questions. I see your point, but that seems kind of dishonest to me. Also, I was asking a philosophical question, not a relationship advice question. I did give some context that was personal, but I didn't reveal any details that would be embarrassing to my boyfriend, so I feel ok about it. I do appreciate your respectful advice.

RedMagic1 -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 1:47:53 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy I see your point, but that seems kind of dishonest to me. I don't understand why. If, for example, you told your boyfriend you would keep relationship things private and then posted, that would count as dishonest to me. In fact, many men tacitly assume relationship things are private, so unless you specifically asked him if posting this would be ok, you might be walking a thin line right now. Saying, "This isn't my real profile because I want to keep everything private, but I need as much advice as possible about this question," isn't lying to anyone, or hiding from anything. It is being protective of a (damaged?) relationship you care about. If you look at the posters with the healthiest, most stable relationships, they tend only to post about good things their partners do, or problems that occurred in the past, and how they worked through those problems as a team. By contrast, people who live for drama enjoy playing to the audience. I'm not saying that's what you are doing. I think it's something to think about, though, for anyone who wants to use a message board like this is a productive fashion.

lucylucy -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 1:51:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy I see your point, but that seems kind of dishonest to me. I don't understand why. If, for example, you told your boyfriend you would keep relationship things private and then posted, that would count as dishonest to me. In fact, many men tacitly assume relationship things are private, so unless you specifically asked him if posting this would be ok, you might be walking a thin line right now. Saying, "This isn't my real profile because I want to keep everything private, but I need as much advice as possible about this question," isn't lying to anyone, or hiding from anything. It is being protective of a (damaged?) relationship you care about. If you look at the posters with the healthiest, most stable relationships, they tend only to post about good things their partners do, or problems that occurred in the past, and how they worked through those problems as a team. By contrast, people who live for drama enjoy playing to the audience. I'm not saying that's what you are doing. I think it's something to think about, though, for anyone who wants to use a message board like this is a productive fashion. Again, I see your point, but I disagree. I said nothing in my post that was negative about my boyfriend. My question wasn't about my behavior or my situation; rather, it was a philosophical question about the value of what versus the value of why. I wasn't asking for advice, I was asking for thoughts on the philosophical question. By the time I posted, my boyfriend and I had had all of the discussions we were going to have on the specific situation. Having a blank profile to post certain types of questions seems dishonest to me because I want to own what I post, which means associating my profile with it. If I'm a dumbass, I want to own that. I'm careful to keep identifying details out of my posts.

domiguy -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 1:58:19 PM)
No one can tell you about your behavior without the details. It is stupid on your part to assume otherwise. People lie all of the time...There are the little white lies where you inform someone that you are not feeling well simply because you don't feel like meeting them out and then there are the mothahfucking dooozies...."No, I'm not cheating." Since you seem to be unable to follow this concept I cannot begin to believe that you will be able to discern any relevant advice that you might garner from these responses. You are not out here to find advice you are just here to be seen.

lucylucy -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 2:00:03 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy No one can tell you about your behavior without the details. It is stupid on your part to assume otherwise. People lie all of the time...There are the little white lies where you inform someone that you are not feeling well simply because you don't feel like meeting them out and then there are the mothahfucking dooozies...."No, I'm not cheating." Since you seem to be unable to follow this concept I cannot begin to believe that you will be able to discern any relevant advice that you might garner from these responses. You are not out here to find advice you are just here to be seen. I wasn't asking for feedback on my behavior. Re-read my original post. I was posing a philosophical question, not asking for advice. I don't think I'm the stupid one here.

AquaticSub -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 2:01:24 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP She wasn't given a chance. His first words weren't "hi honey, how was your day?" but "get your shirt off for me to cane you". When she said that she couldn't do that, he went off on her about how bad a sub she was, how she was ruining his day etc. Some people shut down when confronted by anger. I imagine she was one. I've done that myself, just stopped talking and shut down. The difference is that The Man, unlike my ex sees this and doesn't use it to get his way or at least not get any disagreement, he realizes it means there's a problem and he needs to find out what it is. And raging at people does not encourage them to be open with you. This is quite true. When facing the chance of cancer, there are plenty of people who just lose their ability to function. They don't know what to do or what to say and they can't handle the situations the way they normally would be capable of. I don't know the specifics of the above situation but I do very much believe that it could happen.

lovingpet -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 2:11:52 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 If you look at the posters with the healthiest, most stable relationships, they tend only to post about good things their partners do, or problems that occurred in the past, and how they worked through those problems as a team. By contrast, people who live for drama enjoy playing to the audience. I'm not saying that's what you are doing. I think it's something to think about, though, for anyone who wants to use a message board like this is a productive fashion. As one of those posters that you have in the past commented had a healthy, stable relationship, I have to say this isn't entirely accurate. I recently posted a thread (as in within the past few days) that was not entirely positive of our relationship or even of him. It is not a past and resolved issue. It is still open. I've had a few threads that were about ongoing situations that I was seeking some perspective to work through on my end. I haven't found it to be a bad thing. People did jump right on him in this last thread about what he could have and should have done better. I politely pointed out that we had already figured that part out and it was already handled. Throughout the thread, I directed it back to me and MY responsibility and how I could do better in the future. When I post about a problem, I am looking at me. I am not blaming him. Even if he had some part in the blame it is for him to determine that and work on his own stuff. I am simply here working on mine. I see the OP doing the same thing. She is certainly taking a lot of heat for what she did from the posters here. She opened herself up to that, perhaps even subconsciously as a means of exacting some self punishment for the incident while she has waited for his response. She has taken responsibility for her role in it. I haven't seen her post one negative thing about her partner anywhere on this thread. The fact that people occasionally have problems is not negative in and of itself. I don't see her seeking justification, pushing off blame on him, or any such thing. I personally don't see this as airing dirty laundry at all. Mine probably came closer to that than hers does. In the end, folks reassured me that having a bump in the road wasn't the end of the world. They reminded me why I am in a relationship with the man I am rather than someone else. They were able to put some perspective on things that I hadn't considered. It was a good thing and helped me greatly. I am sure this thread is doing similarly for the OP. I hope we can all continue to support each other both through encouragement and tough love as needed, but first we have to be able to open up and share about the less than pretty things. Yes, that will occasionally draw drama (but I would say that has more to do with many respondents than it really has to do with a well intended OP). She had done her best to avoid the drama and use what was helpful for her. I think it is great to have been able to get that input. lovingpet

DarlingSavage -> RE: what versus why (1/9/2010 2:12:10 PM)
Honesty is the best policy. Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to deceive. That's all I have to say about that.

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