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the law - 1/8/2010 3:25:56 PM   
Knighthunter862


Posts: 32
Joined: 12/30/2009
Status: offline 		If a girl lets say for discussion sake enjoys being slapped.Her owner does so hundreds of times over the years.One day she gets angry and calls the law and hes arrested?oK GUYS LETS HEAR IT
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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 4:19:51 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		From a legal standpoint (which according to your post title is what you want), the second she decides she doesn't want it anymore, it becomes assault.

(in reply to Knighthunter862)
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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 4:33:40 PM   
UniqueRaven


Posts: 1237
Joined: 9/30/2009
From: Austin, TX
Status: offline 		And your post brings up such a good point - so many submissive women just naturally assume that they're the one taking all the risk, giving over their body for use, spankings, whatever.

But the fact is that the Dom takes on a huge risk as well - the trust has to run both ways. And if she's a flake, she can't blame him if he backs away from her, as it's just not worth it.

It would take something really, really out of line for me to go to the cops on my partner without talking with him about it first. That's just honoring that foundation of trust that we build together over time.

But it does happen. We've seen it happen on these boards. And as LafayetteLady pointed out, it does become assault.

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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 5:11:09 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		This can happen in any relationship. Has zero to do with bdsm.

It's a chance every single person takes just being out and about in the world and associating with human beings.

Imo if you're living in fear of such things in a relationship then you really aren't living in a relationship.

Instead take the time to get to know someone and don't jump in quickly and you most likely won't have these things happen.

(in reply to UniqueRaven)
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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 5:14:27 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		People don't change overnight for no reason. So if she's refusing his instructions, angry and bitter and he's so self centered to not want to talk to her and find out what's going on but instead just beat her into submission, he deserves what he gets. This is a good example of the importance of paying attention to your partner and keeping communication open at all times.

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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 5:16:29 PM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Get real.  Your word against hers, the probability of getting arrested is pretty small.  Especially since she knows that it will kill the relationship if she files charges.

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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 5:39:31 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		Also-

While yes, she can call the cops, and you might be taken in, if she really was a consensual partner in slapping "for years", the case would fall apart instantly. Honestly the odds of getting a jury to believe that the consensual slapping suddenly became assault on 7:45 on Monday night are pretty low.

But yeah, there is a kernel of truth in this, that the more extreme forms of BDSM like kidnap role play, rape scenes, imprisonment, torture, etc. do come with some risks, and sometimes do go very badly. All the more reason to know who you are dealing with and take sensible precautions.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 7
RE: the law - 1/8/2010 6:14:54 PM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Get real.  Your word against hers, the probability of getting arrested is pretty small.  Especially since she knows that it will kill the relationship if she files charges.


Some states have mandatory arrest laws for what they see as domestic violence.  Whether or not there's a conviction is another story.

http://www.abanet.org/domviol/docs/Domestic_Violence_Arrest_Policies_by_State_11_07.pdf

This is why I see BDSM as a "risk aware" activity. 



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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 6:23:53 PM   
DomImus


Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline 		The most important thing a submissive brings to a relationship is a willingness not to prosecute.

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(in reply to Knighthunter862)
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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 6:48:37 PM   
lovingpet


Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

The most important thing a submissive brings to a relationship is a willingness not to prosecute.


This made me giggle, but it is true. I don't know about "most", but it is up there on the list. It is very easy for a person to retroactively withdraw consent and claim it was otherwise. It is very easy for a silly tiff to turn into mandatory charges. It is very easy for things to get out of hand. The dominant side has not only the consent of their partner to worry about, but the willingness of others in society to be open minded in their dealings with the submissive. There are mandatory reporters in a lot of strategic professions (teachers, doctors and nurses, etc.) that can turn a perfectly happy couple's world upside down over what was DESIRED interaction. Once again, trust runs both ways. If you can't trust the submissive to be as good as their word, then don't play. There is risk on both sides of the equation.

lovingpet

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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 7:07:02 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline 		 
Keep a "back up" slave in your basement for both (i) an alibi, and (ii) a replacement.  Just remember to feed her a couple times a week, lest she might eat her leg;  and one-legged slaves are just a PAIN 'cause they make "thumpy" noises while crawling... and that'd only keep you up at night.



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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 7:13:47 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


Posts: 8159
Joined: 10/5/2009
From: The Great Frozen North
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Get real.  Your word against hers, the probability of getting arrested is pretty small.  Especially since she knows that it will kill the relationship if she files charges.


Steven, if it gets to this point, I don't think saving the relationship is at the top of her list of concerns


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(in reply to DarkSteven)
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RE: the law - 1/8/2010 7:32:00 PM   
stef


Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

From a legal standpoint (which according to your post title is what you want), the second she decides she doesn't want it anymore, it becomes assault.

Actually, from a legal standpoint, that would be battery.  Without getting into jurisdictional intricacies, the general rule of thumb is; swing and miss and it's assault, swing and connect and it's assault and battery.

~stef


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(in reply to LafayetteLady)
Profile   Post #: 13
RE: the law - 1/8/2010 8:03:22 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Get real.  Your word against hers, the probability of getting arrested is pretty small.  Especially since she knows that it will kill the relationship if she files charges.


Here's the "real" DS. The cops are called, they come to the house, they see a mark on her face, they have no choice but to arrest him. In every state, no discretion on the part of the police.

But yes, it would likely ruin the relationship. Just calling is likely to do that though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Also-

While yes, she can call the cops, and you might be taken in, if she really was a consensual partner in slapping "for years", the case would fall apart instantly. Honestly the odds of getting a jury to believe that the consensual slapping suddenly became assault on 7:45 on Monday night are pretty low.



In most states, this would be a misdemeanor assault. It would either be handled in municipal court of family court, since it would be considered domestic violence.

It is a myth that everyone is entitled to a jury trial.

(in reply to DarkSteven)
Profile   Post #: 14
RE: the law - 1/8/2010 8:20:20 PM   
Roselaure


Posts: 672
Joined: 4/12/2008
Status: offline
quote:

:
quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Also-

While yes, she can call the cops, and you might be taken in, if she really was a consensual partner in slapping "for years", the case would fall apart instantly. Honestly the odds of getting a jury to believe that the consensual slapping suddenly became assault on 7:45 on Monday night are pretty low.

But yeah, there is a kernel of truth in this, that the more extreme forms of BDSM like kidnap role play, rape scenes, imprisonment, torture, etc. do come with some risks, and sometimes do go very badly. All the more reason to know who you are dealing with and take sensible precautions.


I served on a grand jury several years ago where a case like this came up.  A woman went over to her ex boyfriends house to pick up her stuff and while she was there he tied her up slapped her around and had sex with her.  She went to the police.  As the case was presented to us it sounded like textbook sexual assault and the grand jury was all set to return an indictment, until the prosecutor divulged that this had been a common form of sexual expression for them in their relationship, by both her and his admission.  No indictment was returned. 


_____________________________

Once conform, once do what other people do because they do it, and lethargy steals over all the finer nerves and faculties of the soul.
-Virginia Woolf

(in reply to AnimusRex)
Profile   Post #: 15
RE: the law - 1/8/2010 8:35:51 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef

quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

From a legal standpoint (which according to your post title is what you want), the second she decides she doesn't want it anymore, it becomes assault.

Actually, from a legal standpoint, that would be battery.  Without getting into jurisdictional intricacies, the general rule of thumb is; swing and miss and it's assault, swing and connect and it's assault and battery.

~stef



Actually stef, yes, it would be a battery, but not necessarily and assault and battery. Another myth that the "swing" is the assault and the connection is the battery.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Roselaure

I served on a grand jury several years ago where a case like this came up. A woman went over to her ex boyfriends house to pick up her stuff and while she was there he tied her up slapped her around and had sex with her. She went to the police. As the case was presented to us it sounded like textbook sexual assault and the grand jury was all set to return an indictment, until the prosecutor divulged that this had been a common form of sexual expression for them in their relationship, by both her and his admission. No indictment was returned.



There were a lot more "crimes" in that case which brought it to a grand jury. The question posed by the OP would not ever go to a grand jury indictment.

(in reply to stef)
Profile   Post #: 16
RE: the law - 1/9/2010 12:28:31 AM   
antipode


Posts: 1787
Joined: 4/19/2004
Status: offline
quote:

oK GUYS LETS HEAR IT


Umm... you did not ask a question..

(in reply to Knighthunter862)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: the law - 1/9/2010 3:06:31 AM   
allthatjaz


Posts: 2878
Joined: 8/20/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

This can happen in any relationship. Has zero to do with bdsm.

It's a chance every single person takes just being out and about in the world and associating with human beings.

Imo if you're living in fear of such things in a relationship then you really aren't living in a relationship.

Instead take the time to get to know someone and don't jump in quickly and you most likely won't have these things happen.



I don't think the op is talking about a relationship turning abusive... thats a whole other ball game. I think the op is asking what would happen if a submissive turns vindictive then how bad could it get! There is always a danger when you hurt a woman's pride or anyone's pride for that matter!

This reminds me of a recent conversation I had with someone I know fairly well. She has spent years telling me about her masochistic escapades with the man she loves. She always spoke with great enthusiasm about his sadism and control over her. The relationship has come to an end, not abusively and not aggressively basically he's just moved on.
She is starting to talk more and more about the times he physically hurt her, how she thinks she was brain washed and just couldn't say no and she's trying to now convince others that her entire relationship was based on abuse and assault. She is now sending him text messages saying that she has proof from photographs of bruising and she is considering going to the law.

Now the good news.... There was a recent case in the UK where something similar to this hit the high courts. It took very little time before it was thrown out because evidence was brought forward from forum posts, online journals and witnesses of there relationship that she was very much involved and taking part within the BDSM world. Even though many parts of BDSM are illegal in the UK, cases such as this are done on a case to case basis (plus most judges are involved in BDSM too ). She is now being threatened with legal costs for wasting police time.

I would only say there was a danger if, she never wrote a journal that was either passed on or online, that she was not a member of any BDSM sites and there was absolutely no evidence from anyone that she was actively and consensually involved in this.

< Message edited by allthatjaz -- 1/9/2010 3:11:42 AM >

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(in reply to littlewonder)
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RE: the law - 1/9/2010 1:33:07 PM   
Acer49


Posts: 1434
Joined: 8/7/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

From a legal standpoint (which according to your post title is what you want), the second she decides she doesn't want it anymore, it becomes assault.


I believe it is considered assault regardless of consent. although not all assault cases are prosecuted by the local DA

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Never be bullied into silence. Never allow yourself to be made a victim. Accept no one's definition of your life; define yourself.
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Profile   Post #: 19
RE: the law - 1/9/2010 1:51:16 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Get real.  Your word against hers, the probability of getting arrested is pretty small.  Especially since she knows that it will kill the relationship if she files charges.


Some states have mandatory arrest laws for what they see as domestic violence.  Whether or not there's a conviction is another story.

http://www.abanet.org/domviol/docs/Domestic_Violence_Arrest_Policies_by_State_11_07.pdf

This is why I see BDSM as a "risk aware" activity. 



Carrie is correct.  My experience in this matter applies to the state of CO.

Mandatory arrest has been on the books in that state since the late 90's.  Prior consent of such activity can be introduced at trial, not arraignment.  Even if prior consent had been given on other occasions, if the victim states at any time that they withdraw consent, there is often a conviction.  The same goes for sexual encounters.  Prior instances of consensual sex do not automatically exclude sexual assault convictions.


_____________________________

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Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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Profile   Post #: 20
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