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RE: the law - 1/9/2010 2:06:39 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
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From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

From a legal standpoint (which according to your post title is what you want), the second she decides she doesn't want it anymore, it becomes assault.


I believe it is considered assault regardless of consent. although not all assault cases are prosecuted by the local DA


While that would technically be correct on some level, if the local authorities don't have it brought to their attention, then it didn't happen.

One of the problems I see though is that frequently some people will "stumble" into the "lifestyle." Seems to happen more frequently with women for some reason. I have seen women who have some issues with past abuse or trauma who for whatever reason question whether or not they "asked for it" on some level. They are encouraged to "explore" those questions within the "safety" of a BDSM relationship. Now I'm not going to sit here and say that no one can benefit from such exploration, because some people can and have. On the other hand, far too often, this person who did suffer something in their past or something else will find themselves with one of those "uber" dominants who now tell them that it is "different" because it is all consensual. Meanwhile, the woman, who is typically overly desperate for someone to "love" her, is still suffering from the same issues she had in the past, and really doesn't want this kind of relationship, but through various circumstances has been convinced that she does. Like it or not, for some people, BDSM is just a phase they go through in life. In a case like I just described the woman, as time goes by, realizes that this ISN'T the kind of relationship that she wanted. While it may seem as though she was consenting, she really wasn't capable of such consent.

In the case described by allthatjaz, going to the authorities would be outright wrong. Even given the above scenario, the relationship is over and nothing would be served by going to the law. Honestly that sounds like a case of sour grapes.

What I see more often than not is that if someone was in a BDSM relationship and for whatever reason files charges, a significant number of "lifestyle" people will immediately say "it was consensual, she is lying," disregarding or worse not having all the facts. It is no different than "vanilla" people automatically assuming that everyone within the BDSM community is being abused but can't figure it out.

Yes, the BDSM community does have some problems with society accepting that people have made a choice, but every case that one reads in the newspaper is not just another way of portraying BDSM in a bad light. Brainwashing can and does happen. "Stockholm Syndrome" is not a myth. Everyone should just be more open to what actually is happening, on both the "lifestyle" and "vanilla" sides. Typically the truth will lie somewhere in the middle.

(in reply to Acer49)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: the law - 1/9/2010 2:11:03 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Get real.  Your word against hers, the probability of getting arrested is pretty small.  Especially since she knows that it will kill the relationship if she files charges.


Some states have mandatory arrest laws for what they see as domestic violence.  Whether or not there's a conviction is another story.

http://www.abanet.org/domviol/docs/Domestic_Violence_Arrest_Policies_by_State_11_07.pdf

This is why I see BDSM as a "risk aware" activity. 



Carrie is correct.  My experience in this matter applies to the state of CO.

Mandatory arrest has been on the books in that state since the late 90's.  Prior consent of such activity can be introduced at trial, not arraignment.  Even if prior consent had been given on other occasions, if the victim states at any time that they withdraw consent, there is often a conviction.  The same goes for sexual encounters.  Prior instances of consensual sex do not automatically exclude sexual assault convictions.



The other thing that no one seems to be aware of is the difference between "mandatory arrest" and still having a citation issued and needing to appear in court. In many DV cases, the "perpetrator" of the domestic violence is removed from the residence and a Temporary Restraining Order is issues. Technically even a traffic ticket is an "arrest" it just doesn't necessarily involve handcuffs and a jail cell.

(in reply to LadyPact)
Profile   Post #: 22
RE: the law - 1/13/2010 3:33:53 PM   
Rhodes85


Posts: 445
Joined: 11/15/2008
From: Nova Scotia, Canada
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quote:

Get real.  Your word against hers, the probability of getting arrested is pretty small.  Especially since she knows that it will kill the relationship if she files charges


If the guy has been slapping her for years (consentually) that could easily go from 'I let him' to 'hes been beating me for years and I was scared to call the cops'

I have seen that happen more times than you might think. If its your word against hers the cops are always going to take the side of the woman claiming abuse.

_____________________________

This is a test of the Emergency Broadcast System. Had this been an actual emergency you would all be dead by now. Have a nice day and remember: Friends don't let friends vote Republican.

(in reply to Acer49)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: the law - 1/13/2010 4:08:25 PM   
sunshinemiss


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I don't like it when original posts sound like an invitation to drama.  Sounds like a "come on ... let's have a bitch session" kind of thing. 

Attractive, that.



_____________________________

Yes, I am a wonton hussy... and still sweet as 3.14

(in reply to Rhodes85)
Profile   Post #: 24
RE: the law - 1/17/2010 6:25:20 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Knighthunter862

If a girl lets say for discussion sake enjoys being slapped.Her owner does so hundreds of times over the years.One day she gets angry and calls the law and hes arrested?oK GUYS LETS HEAR IT



All things being equal I think she should take a good/long/hard look in the mirror.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Knighthunter862)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: the law - 1/17/2010 6:31:49 AM   
sirsholly


Posts: 42360
Joined: 9/7/2007
From: Quietville
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DomImus

The most important thing a submissive brings to a relationship is a willingness not to prosecute.
then the most important thing a Dom brings is the assurance she will not have to.


_____________________________

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TECHNO-DOLT
MEMBER OF THE SUBBIE MAFIA
GRACEFULLY CHALLENGED :::::splat:::::
BOOT WHORE
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CREATOR OF MAYHEM (practice)


(in reply to DomImus)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: the law - 1/17/2010 6:45:12 AM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
Joined: 8/29/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Get real.  Your word against hers, the probability of getting arrested is pretty small.  Especially since she knows that it will kill the relationship if she files charges.


Some states have mandatory arrest laws for what they see as domestic violence.  Whether or not there's a conviction is another story.

http://www.abanet.org/domviol/docs/Domestic_Violence_Arrest_Policies_by_State_11_07.pdf

This is why I see BDSM as a "risk aware" activity. 




There is no your word against hers in Maine either Steven. If I call the police, he gets cuffed and arrested, end of story. Of course if it goes to court, I have to be able to convince judge and/or jury of my case. Also, in Maine, even if I drop the charges, if it's for domestic assault the state will press them anyway, without me. Seen it happen hundreds of times, I volunteer at the local shelter, New Hope For Women.

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 27
RE: the law - 1/17/2010 7:51:13 AM   
babygurlangel


Posts: 85
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline
In TN their isn't your word against hers either. But if she doens't go to court they drop the charges unless it happens over and over and the cops are tired of coming out and the man keeps getting his way with the woman, they the state will press charges.

(in reply to Aynne88)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: the law - 1/17/2010 11:17:13 AM   
WinsomeDefiance


Posts: 6719
Joined: 8/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rhodes85

quote:

. If its your word against hers the cops are always going to take the side of the woman claiming abuse.


This is not a true statement.

(in reply to Rhodes85)
Profile   Post #: 29
RE: the law - 1/17/2010 11:24:47 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Acer49


quote:

ORIGINAL: LafayetteLady

From a legal standpoint (which according to your post title is what you want), the second she decides she doesn't want it anymore, it becomes assault.


I believe it is considered assault regardless of consent. although not all assault cases are prosecuted by the local DA


*ding ding ding*!! We have a winner!!

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to Acer49)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: the law - 1/17/2010 11:27:52 AM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Knighthunter862

If a girl lets say for discussion sake enjoys being slapped.Her owner does so hundreds of times over the years.One day she gets angry and calls the law and hes arrested?oK GUYS LETS HEAR IT



All things being equal I think she should take a good/long/hard look in the mirror.


Absolutely. And if she has bruises she did not consent to, (and made that quite clear) then she is well within her right to call the police.

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: the law - 1/17/2010 12:07:12 PM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Knighthunter862

If a girl lets say for discussion sake enjoys being slapped.Her owner does so hundreds of times over the years.One day she gets angry and calls the law and hes arrested?oK GUYS LETS HEAR IT



All things being equal I think she should take a good/long/hard look in the mirror.


Absolutely. And if she has bruises she did not consent to, (and made that quite clear) then she is well within her right to call the police.


Of course - the agreed rules should be adhered to - both parties.


_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to xxblushesxx)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: the law - 1/17/2010 2:59:08 PM   
xxblushesxx


Posts: 9318
Joined: 11/3/2005
From: Kentucky
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: xxblushesxx


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: Knighthunter862

If a girl lets say for discussion sake enjoys being slapped.Her owner does so hundreds of times over the years.One day she gets angry and calls the law and hes arrested?oK GUYS LETS HEAR IT



All things being equal I think she should take a good/long/hard look in the mirror.


Absolutely. And if she has bruises she did not consent to, (and made that quite clear) then she is well within her right to call the police.


Of course - the agreed rules should be adhered to - both parties.



So...if I give a guy permission to beat me and torture me (in a fun way of course) I can never withdraw that consent in the future?
If I marry someone else, I'm still *bound* by the agreed rules?
(sorry if I misunderstood what you said; all I'm saying is if someone withdraws consent...that's it. There *is* no more.)

_____________________________

~Christina

A nice girl with a disturbing hobby

My femdom findom blog: http://www.MistressAvarice.com


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 33
RE: the law - 1/18/2010 2:59:11 PM   
sirguym


Posts: 318
Joined: 8/10/2007
Status: offline
In the UK case law says that even the mildest slap is an assault and consent is irrelevant.

(Though if the consequences are "trivial and transient" then the law should not be invoked. )

But prosecution can go ahead without the 'victim' filing charges.

Maybe on the evidence of an ex, or indeed a husband or wife discovering the evidence.

Indeed if they allege consent they will be charged as an accessory to the crime.

This is not a joke, some have done years in prison for letting someone else beat them, consensually.


quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

Get real.  Your word against hers, the probability of getting arrested is pretty small.  Especially since she knows that it will kill the relationship if she files charges.


Some states have mandatory arrest laws for what they see as domestic violence.  Whether or not there's a conviction is another story.

http://www.abanet.org/domviol/docs/Domestic_Violence_Arrest_Policies_by_State_11_07.pdf

This is why I see BDSM as a "risk aware" activity. 

(in reply to CarrieO)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: the law - 1/18/2010 5:45:45 PM   
SailingBum


Posts: 3225
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Sailin the stormy sea
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Knighthunter862

If a girl lets say for discussion sake enjoys being slapped.Her owner does so hundreds of times over the years.One day she gets angry and calls the law and hes arrested?oK GUYS LETS HEAR IT


Even if you did do it, smack her around, whatever.  Never and I mean NEVER admit anything to the cops.  They will use it against you.  It's a classic he said she said deal.  you will get to go home and not jail.

BadOne




_____________________________

The beatings will continue until morale improves.

According to SwithNSpanky
We are all so very lucky to have you with us to impart your great wisdom.

(in reply to Knighthunter862)
Profile   Post #: 35
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