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RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 7:24:26 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

well to answer that takes me in much deeper than I am willing to spend the time explaining.

Basically it was a shift in government from organic de jure to corporate as can be seen by its change.

Each version has its own set of rules, the latter being unauthorized in its entirety.. and I will leave it at that before I wind up planted here for a week going every detail.

Best is just to take what I said and research it...



And everything i can find does not support your contention. The 21st repealed the 18th completely. Hense the word repealed.

None of the other ammendments repealed anything, they ammended them, adding to them, explaining them a bit more.... nothing was repealed because nothing had to be repealed. the 16th explained in more detail what was not explained before.


well I htink we went full circle... Thats what I said...  That they can add amendments but anytime they want to subtract whatever is to be subtracted must be repealed first.

If they do not repeal it first it becomes ambiguous and 2 people could make equally valid claims based on both versions at the same time.

So again full circle, it takes us back to the 16th did nothing to change art 1 sec 8,9.

Leaving us with the dilemma how can both be true at the same time.




_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 61
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 7:25:28 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
It didnt subtract from that article. It defined it. Just where did you go to law school?

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 62
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 7:26:50 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

It didnt subtract from that article. It defined it. Just where did you go to law school?


taz, you cant have apportioned and unapportioned taxation at the same time!




< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/10/2010 7:27:17 AM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 63
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 7:46:38 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
article 1, 9

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken

capitation... a tax or fee of so much per head; payment per capita

enumeration... To count off or name one by one; list

so, no tax or fee of so much per head, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or count herein before directed to be taken.

16th

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


In the United States, the term "direct tax" has a different meaning for the purposes of constitutional law. Traditionally, a direct tax in the constitutional sense means a tax on property "by reason of its ownership"[3] (such as an ordinary real estate property tax imposed on the person owning the property as of January 1st of each year) as well as a capitation (a "head tax").[4] In the late 1800s, U.S. courts also began to treat an income tax on income from property as a direct tax.[5] In U.S. constitutional law, an "indirect tax" or "excise" is an "event" tax. In this sense, a transfer tax (such as gift tax and estate tax) is an indirect tax. Income taxes on income from personal services such as wages are also indirect taxes in this sense.[6] The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit has stated: "Only three taxes are definitely known to be direct: (1) a capitation [ . . . ], (2) a tax upon real property, and (3) a tax upon personal property."[7]

In the United States, Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution requires that direct taxes imposed by the national government be apportioned among the states on the basis of population. After the 1895 Pollock ruling (essentially, that taxes on income from property should be treated as direct taxes), this provision made it difficult for Congress to impose a national income tax that applied to all forms of income until the 16th Amendment was ratified in 1913. After the Sixteenth Amendment, no Federal income taxes are required to be apportioned, regardless of whether they are direct taxes (taxes on income from property) or indirect taxes (all other income taxes).[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_tax

Seems pretty simple to me.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 64
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 8:43:50 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

article 1, 9

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken

capitation... a tax or fee of so much per head; payment per capita

enumeration... To count off or name one by one; list

so, no tax or fee of so much per head, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or count herein before directed to be taken.

16th

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


In the United States, the term "direct tax" has a different meaning for the purposes of constitutional law. Traditionally, a direct tax in the constitutional sense means a tax on property "by reason of its ownership"[3] (such as an ordinary real estate property tax imposed on the person owning the property as of January 1st of each year) as well as a capitation (a "head tax").[4] In the late 1800s, U.S. courts also began to treat an income tax on income from property as a direct tax.[5] In U.S. constitutional law, an "indirect tax" or "excise" is an "event" tax. In this sense, a transfer tax (such as gift tax and estate tax) is an indirect tax. Income taxes on income from personal services such as wages are also indirect taxes in this sense.[6] The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit has stated: "Only three taxes are definitely known to be direct: (1) a capitation [ . . . ], (2) a tax upon real property, and (3) a tax upon personal property."[7]

In the United States, Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution requires that direct taxes imposed by the national government be apportioned among the states on the basis of population. After the 1895 Pollock ruling (essentially, that taxes on income from property should be treated as direct taxes), this provision made it difficult for Congress to impose a national income tax that applied to all forms of income until the 16th Amendment was ratified in 1913. After the Sixteenth Amendment, no Federal income taxes are required to be apportioned, regardless of whether they are direct taxes (taxes on income from property) or indirect taxes (all other income taxes).[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_tax

Seems pretty simple to me.



well it does to me too.....

So unless you state what is simple and why I have no idea what you are referring too.






_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 65
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 9:15:12 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
well unless the apple cart collapses- we stack more and more apples on it.

you know-  and it really is not a problem.


not until - unless- it would happen to over turn.

SO goes it with money extraction---

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 66
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 10:30:35 AM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

article 1, 9

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken

capitation... a tax or fee of so much per head; payment per capita

enumeration... To count off or name one by one; list

so, no tax or fee of so much per head, or other direct, tax shall be laid, unless in proportion to the census or count herein before directed to be taken.

16th

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


In the United States, the term "direct tax" has a different meaning for the purposes of constitutional law. Traditionally, a direct tax in the constitutional sense means a tax on property "by reason of its ownership"[3] (such as an ordinary real estate property tax imposed on the person owning the property as of January 1st of each year) as well as a capitation (a "head tax").[4] In the late 1800s, U.S. courts also began to treat an income tax on income from property as a direct tax.[5] In U.S. constitutional law, an "indirect tax" or "excise" is an "event" tax. In this sense, a transfer tax (such as gift tax and estate tax) is an indirect tax. Income taxes on income from personal services such as wages are also indirect taxes in this sense.[6] The United States Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit has stated: "Only three taxes are definitely known to be direct: (1) a capitation [ . . . ], (2) a tax upon real property, and (3) a tax upon personal property."[7]

In the United States, Article I, Section 9 of the Constitution requires that direct taxes imposed by the national government be apportioned among the states on the basis of population. After the 1895 Pollock ruling (essentially, that taxes on income from property should be treated as direct taxes), this provision made it difficult for Congress to impose a national income tax that applied to all forms of income until the 16th Amendment was ratified in 1913. After the Sixteenth Amendment, no Federal income taxes are required to be apportioned, regardless of whether they are direct taxes (taxes on income from property) or indirect taxes (all other income taxes).[8]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_tax

Seems pretty simple to me.



well it does to me too.....

So unless you state what is simple and why I have no idea what you are referring too.







i believe you like being deliberately obtuse. prohibition admendment was repealed because that was all it was concerning, prohibition. repealing that measure in the 18th did not affect any other part of the constitution.

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 9 - Limits on Congress


The Migration or Importation of such Persons as any of the States now existing shall think proper to admit, shall not be prohibited by the Congress prior to the Year one thousand eight hundred and eight, but a tax or duty may be imposed on such Importation, not exceeding ten dollars for each Person.

The privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.

No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.

(No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.)

No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.

No Money shall be drawn from the Treasury, but in Consequence of Appropriations made by Law; and a regular Statement and Account of the Receipts and Expenditures of all public Money shall be published from time to time.

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress, accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince or foreign State.


http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec9.html

repealing article 1 would have caused many changes, not just the one concerning taxes. repealing article 1, section 9, same response. instead of repealing that whole section, the rewriting the one part they wanted to change, then adding the whole thing back in, they amended the one part they wanted to change.

holding state constitutions as the example of how the federal should be run isnt going to cut it.



_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 67
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 11:04:03 AM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline
FR

Is there really anyone who doesnt have this moron on ignore altready?

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 68
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 11:26:01 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Is there really anyone who doesnt have this moron on ignore altready?


and that begs the question  to whom is this tax money paid.

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 69
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 11:56:13 AM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Is there really anyone who doesnt have this moron on ignore altready?


I am truly sorry you are so hurt over this topic.  This is the second time you took a shot from the cheap seat.  If you want to be counted try speaking to the topic instead of attacking me for no good reason.

That and what do people think when its your second attack on me and even you did not put me on ignore.

If this is so difficult for you please put me on ignore before you damage yourself.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to willbeurdaddy)
Profile   Post #: 70
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 12:21:04 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
So unless you state what is simple and why I have no idea what you are referring too.


i believe you like being deliberately obtuse. prohibition admendment was repealed because that was all it was concerning, prohibition. repealing that measure in the 18th did not affect any other part of the constitution.

Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 9 - Limits on Congress


quote:

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.


quote:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State.

No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.


http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec9.html

repealing article 1 would have caused many changes, not just the one concerning taxes. repealing article 1, section 9, same response. instead of repealing that whole section, the rewriting the one part they wanted to change, then adding the whole thing back in, they amended the one part they wanted to change.

holding state constitutions as the example of how the federal should be run isnt going to cut it.



Again:

quote:

No capitation, or other direct, Tax shall be laid, unless in Proportion to the Census or Enumeration herein before directed to be taken.) (Section in parentheses clarified by the 16th Amendment.


quote:

The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


sorry but as you can see the 16th completely contradicts article 1 if taken at face value.


That is not the way amendments work...

You can redact any part you want and repeal any part or the whole.

Keep in mind that the "people" created the states, the people through the states created the constitution and that is the way it is done in every state why would you think it should be different on fed constitution when it is the same on every state I have reviewed so far....

What nexus do you believe would cause such a shift in thinking?

we have 2 contradicting sets of law in the constitution!





So now we have to ask the question......

How can this be?

How can we have 2 seemingly completely contradictory laws in the same constitution?

Now may state for instance in their taxing policy expressly state in apportionment.

How can that be if apportionment was abrogated?

Another thing the states do is if they want to amend a certain part of a previous section without the repeal, the take the section and rewrite what ever section with the changed parts as a new amendment.   You can then go back and see the original and compare it to the new.

The point being that both laws are valid at the same time the way it was done in the federal constitution.









Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/10/2010 12:40:48 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 71
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 4:25:59 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
So unless you state what is simple and why I have no idea what you are referring too.


i believe you like being deliberately obtuse.


That is not the way amendments work...



That is the way amendments work. In 1803, after a failure of the electoral college system, Congress introduced the 12th Amendment, which changed the way the Electors voted. At this time Thomas Jefferson was President. The vast majority of the authors and signitaries of the Constitution were still alive and most of them were serving positions in the government. I have to assume that they knew what they were doing and how the government they designed was supposed to operate. The 12th Amendment does not anywhere in its text repeal Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution and what it states directly conflicts with the third paragraph of that Section. The 12th Amendment was ratified in 1804 and going forward, all votes of the Electoral College were conducted by the new method set forth in the 12th Amendment.

So either you're telling me that the people who designed the government didn't know how to obey their own rules or that the method for amending the Constitution changed sometime between the ratification of the 12th Amendment and the ratification of the 16th Amendment (i.e. 1804 and 1913). If it's the former I think that you're wrong and unless you can present some truly compelling evidence from 1804 showing otherwise I will continue to believe that Madison, Monroe, Jefferson, et al, had a pretty good idea of what they were doing. If it's the latter, I will ask you again to show me whatever amendment, act of Congress or case law changed the Amendment process. Telling me it's too complicated and to do my own research fails to convince in any way - you are the one suggesting that the 16th amendment is invalid because the amendment process doesn't work in the way that is commonly accepted, the onus is on you to provide some evidence for your claim.

Going back and forth saying "You're wrong", "No, you're wrong" holds no interest for me. If the substance of your argument is simply that the amendment process doesn't work the way everyone thinks it does because that's just the way it is, I'm done.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

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Profile   Post #: 72
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 7:58:47 PM   
willbeurdaddy


Posts: 11894
Joined: 4/8/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

FR

Is there really anyone who doesnt have this moron on ignore altready?


I am truly sorry you are so hurt over this topic.  This is the second time you took a shot from the cheap seat.  If you want to be counted try speaking to the topic instead of attacking me for no good reason.

That and what do people think when its your second attack on me and even you did not put me on ignore.

If this is so difficult for you please put me on ignore before you damage yourself.




I attack you for a very good reason. Youre a blithering idiot.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 73
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 8:08:40 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl


quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
So unless you state what is simple and why I have no idea what you are referring too.


i believe you like being deliberately obtuse.


That is not the way amendments work...



That is the way amendments work. In 1803, after a failure of the electoral college system, Congress introduced the 12th Amendment, which changed the way the Electors voted. At this time Thomas Jefferson was President. The vast majority of the authors and signitaries of the Constitution were still alive and most of them were serving positions in the government. I have to assume that they knew what they were doing and how the government they designed was supposed to operate. The 12th Amendment does not anywhere in its text repeal Article 2, Section 1 of the Constitution and what it states directly conflicts with the third paragraph of that Section. The 12th Amendment was ratified in 1804 and going forward, all votes of the Electoral College were conducted by the new method set forth in the 12th Amendment.

So either you're telling me that the people who designed the government didn't know how to obey their own rules or that the method for amending the Constitution changed sometime between the ratification of the 12th Amendment and the ratification of the 16th Amendment (i.e. 1804 and 1913). If it's the former I think that you're wrong and unless you can present some truly compelling evidence from 1804 showing otherwise I will continue to believe that Madison, Monroe, Jefferson, et al, had a pretty good idea of what they were doing. If it's the latter, I will ask you again to show me whatever amendment, act of Congress or case law changed the Amendment process. Telling me it's too complicated and to do my own research fails to convince in any way - you are the one suggesting that the 16th amendment is invalid because the amendment process doesn't work in the way that is commonly accepted, the onus is on you to provide some evidence for your claim.

Going back and forth saying "You're wrong", "No, you're wrong" holds no interest for me. If the substance of your argument is simply that the amendment process doesn't work the way everyone thinks it does because that's just the way it is, I'm done.


well that amendment was done properly because if you read them both you can see they have the very same wording and then later goes on to make the change....  So according to the definitions that is a legitimate amendment.

the 12th exercises the second method, (inferior to repeal), of amendment however they used no known "legitimate" method amend to create the 16th... They would have had to start out with art 1 sec 8 or 9 then continue on with the changes in the 16th body and that would make it legitimate but the manner in which they did it does not follow any recognized and defined course or rule so there is no legitimate way that one can connect it to the art 1.  at least none that I know of....  do you?  Everything in law and government has specific rules that must be followed, thats just the way it is.

read them both, they start out exactly the same.... 





< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/10/2010 8:09:57 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 74
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 9:02:00 PM   
tazzygirl


Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline
You answered your own question... something the rest of us already knew.

The Doctrine of Implied repeal is a concept in English constitutional theory which states that where an Act of Parliament conflicts with an earlier one, the later Act takes precedence and the conflicting parts of the earlier Act are repealed (i.e. no longer law). This doctrine is expressed in the Latin phrase "leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant".[1]

What comes later overrides what was already written.

_____________________________

Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 75
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 9:15:45 PM   
InvisibleBlack


Posts: 865
Joined: 7/24/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne
So unless you state what is simple and why I have no idea what you are referring too.


i believe you like being deliberately obtuse.


That is not the way amendments work...



That is the way amendments work...

Going back and forth saying "You're wrong", "No, you're wrong" holds no interest for me. If the substance of your argument is simply that the amendment process doesn't work the way everyone thinks it does because that's just the way it is, I'm done.


well that amendment was done properly because if you read them both you can see they have the very same wording and then later goes on to make the change.... 

... thats just the way it is.


I'm done.

_____________________________

Consider the daffodil. And while you're doing that, I'll be over here, looking through your stuff.

(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 76
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 9:16:19 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You answered your own question... something the rest of us already knew.

The Doctrine of Implied repeal is a concept in English constitutional theory which states that where an Act of Parliament conflicts with an earlier one, the later Act takes precedence and the conflicting parts of the earlier Act are repealed (i.e. no longer law). This doctrine is expressed in the Latin phrase "leges posteriores priores contrarias abrogant".[1]

What comes later overrides what was already written.



It is a direct tax in violation of art 2.

no where does it abolish the no direct tax rule unless we want to abolish the whole art 2 on an ambiguous assumption based on the 16th.

that and the latin phrase is general while the rule is specific as I said in my previous post.

Again you can note that they wrote out the text a second time in the 12th then the changes after in the body of the text.

If implied can be used across the board in terms you expressed we could imply nearly anything against literally everything.

I mean to the extent that we wipe the whole constitution out.

I could use the 14th to literally wipe everything prior out on implication without specific rules.

Like I said there are rules and the 16th does not meet those rules therefore it has to be something different.



< Message edited by Real0ne -- 1/10/2010 9:36:19 PM >


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to tazzygirl)
Profile   Post #: 77
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 9:38:43 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline
is this the same guy that somebody was saying you could make a half a mill and collect social security?



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Have they not divided the prey; to every man a damsel or two? Judges 5:30


(in reply to Real0ne)
Profile   Post #: 78
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 9:43:00 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

That is not the way amendments work...



That is the way amendments work...

Going back and forth saying "You're wrong", "No, you're wrong" holds no interest for me. If the substance of your argument is simply that the amendment process doesn't work the way everyone thinks it does because that's just the way it is, I'm done.


well that amendment was done properly because if you read them both you can see they have the very same wording and then later goes on to make the change.... 

... thats just the way it is.


I'm done.


Yeh but taz did not put it to bed with that.  There are distinctions being overlooked and I said you were right BUT they still have to follow the rules.

If they do not do it according to the rules its garbage.  That just the way it is.  You cant walk up to a constitution and put blanket implications on it.  Anyway your point was a good one and well taken it just is not the whole story as you and taz believe.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to InvisibleBlack)
Profile   Post #: 79
RE: X-IRS-Criminal-Investigator - 16th Amendment Never ... - 1/10/2010 9:45:42 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

is this the same guy that somebody was saying you could make a half a mill and collect social security?




beats me but with a little creativity it wouldnt be to hard.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to mnottertail)
Profile   Post #: 80
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