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RE: Around Her Finger - 1/10/2010 4:34:55 PM   
LadyPact


Posts: 32566
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

LOL! That was cute!

Thank you.  Let's just say passive aggressive isn't My style.


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Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/10/2010 5:34:16 PM   
slavekal


Posts: 1486
Joined: 7/20/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: femaleserver

Sorry..

AHF = Around Her Finger. Its a book for Dominate Women/Wives

Big pet peeve of mine, but the word is DOMINANT.  Dominate is a verb.


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/10/2010 5:40:18 PM   
DrkJourney


Posts: 1917
Joined: 5/6/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyPact

I think if I got into such pussyfooting as to say "I might kinda, sorta, maybe want you to" whatever, clip would probably tilt his head to the side and wonder what kind of space alien had infected the brain of his Mistress.




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Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/11/2010 5:48:50 AM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: homedespot

I don't mean to hijack the thread, so I'll just give My personal opinion that male chastity is the quickest way to a mans brain, but that is simply personal experience.

The website aroundherfinger.com was given by an earlier poster and while I appreciate the concept of the site I think it continues an issue with D/s or M/s lifestyle slavery that is going to have to be addressed at some point. The idea is that women need to talk like men in-order to dominate them. One thing that has been very useful and important to mental domination is forcing a man to speak MY language, instead of the other way 'round.

The website says:
" Sample Dialogues for Wives with Submissive Husbands (Some of these seem pretty corny, but these little snippets have received tons of positive feedback! Feel free to send your own and we'll add them to the collection.)

Go get the lotion. I need you to rub my feet.

Run my bath for me. And while I'm in there get started on the laundry.

Get up, Sweetheart, and make me some coffee and an English muffin with butter.

You did a nice job cleaning the bathrooms; I am very pleased with you.

I want a full body massage for exactly one hour; keep an eye on the clock. When you are done I want you to go down on me until I tell you to stop. Afterwards, we'll both go to sleep. You won't be having an orgasm tonight."

I find these all very illustrative of women being asked (or told) to speak like man. In a female led household, in My opinion, it is the male who must learn to speak female. I would rephrase these for the intended audience of the site (women who are new to domination)

"Gosh I'd sort of like a footrub, would you mind?"

"I think my favorite jeans are in the wash""I'd kill for a cup of coffee"

"My shoulders are sore after that workout"

and so forth.Women, in general, do not speak with the same directive language that men do...and shouldn't have to.

I would suggest pretty any book by Deborah Tannen http://www.amazon.com/You-Just-Dont-Understand-Conversation/dp/0345372050, or this short, and not excellent, summary article: http://raysweb.net/poems/articles/tannen.html

Sorry for the hijack.Yes to orgasm control in my experience.J.




I don't see the first set of phrases as male and your examples as female.  I see the first as direct and to the point ( my preferred way of speaking)  and the second as a bit wishy washy.  If your example works for you...great.  It would never work for me and I would eventually drive myself batty. 

Some people have direct styles of communication and some are more indirect.  I know when I speak to a child (NO...I'm NOT comparing men to children), if I say "Gee, I wish you wouldn't do that" as opposed to "I need for you to stop throwing your toys and put them in the bin now"...the first example offers no direction or command of the situation.  The second not only shows the command as a need but it also gives further direction.  I've used this style of communication in various situations and with both adults and children.

Again...to each his/her own. 

Back on topic.....OP, If I told you not to touch it and you didn't listen then yes, the dynamic would involve some form of chasity.  I doubt you would enjoy it though.

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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/11/2010 6:20:59 AM   
CarrieO


Posts: 2432
Joined: 1/27/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drifa

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
It's "dominant" not "dominate" and please offer a different photo if possible.


I use Firefox with AdBlock Plus to view the forums so I can block photos that burn my eyes. It's easy to right-click and block a specific image. I also routinely block hyperactive animated pictures.



Thank you!!!   I've been unable to download Firefox for some reason.  My computer geek friend is set to check my laptop today so I'll mention it to him and see what can be done. 

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Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/11/2010 7:33:30 AM   
homedespot


Posts: 79
Joined: 5/28/2006
Status: offline 		Lockit,

"Well damn! I am batting zero it seems! I talk very direct... add a few thank you's and please's and such... but no way am I indirect, hidden, manipulative in speech or anything else except maybe some fun and games time."

It would seem that you are still batting zero, perhaps if you actually read and responded to what I wrote instead of resorting to self righteous sarcasm that average might improve. 

"No way am I saying... I sorta want or need a foot rub... do you think you might... pretty please, give me one?! "
Here is what I wrote, "Gosh I'd sort of like a footrub, would you mind?" I realize that you are exaggerating for effect but please stay within the realm of credibility.

In fact you said the way YOU would speak is "It's more like... Honey... I need a foot rub and would like you to fit it in as soon as you can please. Ahhh... thank you darlin! lol" which is exactly the language I was talking about. It is not directive in the way the website 'instructs' women.

"Teaching women to speak from some so called woman's stand of... well I sorta... could you please... I think I... are all ways of speaking from an unsure place. I can see the point they might have... that men mostly stuck in fantasy, need or desire a barking bitch... but hey... to each their own. I sure wouldn't advise women to go either route! lol "

Not once did I say that women should change their speech patterns, in fact if you had read what I wrote you would realize I was actually stating the exact, precise opposite. I cited authors and articles where my point is elucidated. Articles that you didn't even think about trying to read. Even the Economist discusses the issue.
http://www.economist.com/businessfinance/displaystory.cfm?story_id=15172746
What bothers me the most is not that you would seek clarification or even discuss it, you would rather adopt a sneering sarcastic tone. No wonder The Ask a Mistress forum is falling apart. The fact that some of the  Dommes on here don't talk that way doesn't address that website and their  readers. The fact that you don't do something, or that the women on here don't do something, in not a sufficient sample to say a majority of people don't do something.

I do however thank you for the reminder of why I don't bother to post here very often.

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Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/11/2010 8:54:18 AM   
Lockit


Posts: 11292
Joined: 5/7/2007
Status: offline 		Homedespot... I doubt seriously that I am going to ruin the mistress section of these boards, but will agree that sometimes something I say could be sarcastic or humorous or seen as an attack and sometimes might be... but I am very clear about an attack. Because I do talk straight I am sure some could get very upset with my straight talk with a hint of sarcasm or humor sometimes. I didn't mean what I said in response to you to be an attack. I wasn't only commenting on what you said, but also what the site said.

I stated how I would speak and what I thought, in the way I talk and I am sorry that you were very offended by it, but it is how I talk.  If you notice, I wasn't the only one who found a problem with the girl talk method and I think some disagreed with the site's teaching as well. Hell, some might disagree with me! It's okay to disagree. I think we can disagree and it's okay.

I do believe in what I say and do and am confident in it and will not take easy insult to things people say about me or what I say because I am confident in what I say and believe. What I call confident, you seem to call self rightous... that may be a matter of how we look at things. So if someone else disagree's we can disagree and no harm has to be done. So I disagree and was trying to be a bit humorous in presentation of my disagreement... and I am sorry if you are offended or hurt by that. I didn't intend to do that. If I had, it would be over something far more serious. While I may be sarcastic from time to time... I am hardly ever sneering and I am sorry you took it that way. I don't tend to come off a barking bitch or a sneering person eating monster. (Again how I talk)

Personally I don't think that men or women should expect to change how they talk to suit one or the other. I think we can find a way to communicate without playing to one gender or the other or how one gender or the other have been perceived in insulting ways, in general, by many in society.

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/11/2010 10:10:10 AM   
AAkasha


Posts: 4429
Joined: 11/27/2004
Status: offline 		All the focus on the words selected are such a small, small part of the big picture.  Sure, you can take Ms. Vanilla and have her adopt those kinds of demanding/expecting speech patterns and what do you have?  Either a stiff, stoic "bitch" or a woman who makes a man feel used and underappreciated. And the sensuality of dominance - what makes a submissive man "tick" - is not dictated by word selection.  Not even close!

What is missing here is context, tone, and most importantly *reaction*.  Submissive men - and bottoms - so often get their satisfaction from knowing they are pleasing. Just demanding that something gets done does not convey the woman's pleasure in having it done.  So you need to incorporate feedback or responses that are natural.  A balance here is important; a woman can feel drained and used if she has to manufacture praise and coddling and responses.  Her responses should be authentic but leave an impression.

If it's a sensual/sexual demand, she needs to show him/tell him/prove to him that his actions are making her wet, getting her excited, making her aroused. If her demands are domestic, he needs to be given (reasonable amounts of ) praise, direction and motivation.  If her demands are rigid and somewhat boring, she may spice it up with some teasing, hinting, or body language.  She should color her commands with things like good eye contact, confident body language, etc.  But again, if this is all "forced" and unnatural, it's bad for both parties. She feels drained and like a puppet, and he feels like she's just acting.

Long ago I learned that it was *fun* to be commanding and get reactions from a man.  I like that feedback loop.  I make a demand, he springs into action like an eager puppy, then I get excited/aroused by his eagerness to please.   But it is so much a matter of context and equal energy.  My permanent partner does not need a ton of coddling (read:none) to get things done.  I can give him a list and it's handled - his submissive crank doesn't get turned by my tone, body language, or the "little" things - he's fulfilled by my overall happiness, which is like an even "glow" vs. sparks of being thrilled.  But you change gears to S&M or humiliation, and like most men, he needs the "sensual carrot" of motivation - knowing I am excited, seeing me get wet, etc -- in order to go deeper and deeper into acts he finds uncomfortable.  And I love dangling that carrot.  I know that just barking a few orders won't keep him motivated - but I also get excited by seeing how my dominance impacts him.

By boiling good D&S into a list of commands or telling a woman to be more direct and demanding, you essentially strip all the sensuality right out of it.  What you end up with is a woman who is demanding, but not exciting.

Akasha

< Message edited by AAkasha -- 1/11/2010 10:11:12 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/11/2010 2:03:12 PM   
marine87


Posts: 27
Joined: 5/5/2007
Status: offline 		After reading these posts it keeps bringing back flashbacks of different female NCO's (Non-Commisioned Officers) I've had to work for in the past. I can say 9 times out of 10 the one who was respectful of her Marines and spoke Assertively with a touch of politeness always had my full respect and obedience to orders. I've worked with one in particular who felt she had to be a total "something" inorder to get guys to listen to her, I dont want to say it was an insecurity but most of my peers at the time had very little respect for her. I definitely agree with most of the Women here that showing respect and common courtesies go a long way for most guys I think. In the military ones expected much like a sub to always obey so why take that obedience and manipulate it for no reason?

Daniel

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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/11/2010 2:57:34 PM   
QueenRah


Posts: 380
Joined: 6/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: homedespot

Lockit,

<snip>
It would seem that you are still batting zero, perhaps if you actually read and responded to what I wrote instead of resorting to self righteous sarcasm that average might improve. 

<snip>

I do however thank you for the reminder of why I don't bother to post here very often.
<snip>



You are too charming. Come back soon!

QR

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Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/11/2010 5:26:41 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline 		Wowser are there some cranky bitchboys on this site or WHAT!! How come the ones who are all into female superiority as proclaimed by some website or another are the ones who get huffy the fastest? These Elise Sutton types of websites drive me mad with their notions of what dominant women SHOULD be like!

I give orders, clearly and graciously. I say thank you. Works with my staff, works with my sub, worked with my students back when I was a teacher. I don't have to raise my voice, or be all faux southern belle. If I say "Please do X when you get a chance", that means just that---and if I say, "I'd like some coffee", it means that I wants me some coffee as soon as you brew it kthx! Not too difficult!

Regarding the chastity question, it would depend on the woman. Personally, I would rather make a man orgasm until he can't anymore, rather than keep him locked up. That's just me. Of course, my idea of fun CAN be mixed with chastity as well!

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RE: Around Her Finger - 1/11/2010 6:42:16 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


Posts: 6060
Joined: 1/26/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Drifa

quote:

ORIGINAL: CarrieO
It's "dominant" not "dominate" and please offer a different photo if possible.


I use Firefox with AdBlock Plus to view the forums so I can block photos that burn my eyes. It's easy to right-click and block a specific image. I also routinely block hyperactive animated pictures.



You have no idea how grateful I am to you. Thank you!!!! Worked like a charm; why didn't I install this last  year when Kittin mentioned it....


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Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/12/2010 3:16:56 AM   
Whipstress


Posts: 10
Joined: 6/26/2007
Status: offline 		Oh gee, I'm really sorry but this "Men don't understand how women talk" is total BS. I'm sure if she said, get on the rack so I can stretch you and suck your dick, the guy would understand perfectly! And she wouldn't even need to say please.

Saying you don't understand how women talk is about selective hearing. I learned a long time ago that they better get an ear tune-up if they want the good, as well as the bad, because life is way too short for me to be repeating myself. I usually say please and thank you just because it's the right thing to do.

Whipstress ~

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/12/2010 5:43:29 AM   
Drifa


Posts: 547
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Rural Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Whipstress

Oh gee, I'm really sorry but this "Men don't understand how women talk" is total BS. I'm sure if she said, get on the rack so I can stretch you and suck your dick, the guy would understand perfectly! And she wouldn't even need to say please.

Saying you don't understand how women talk is about selective hearing. I learned a long time ago that they better get an ear tune-up if they want the good, as well as the bad, because life is way too short for me to be repeating myself. I usually say please and thank you just because it's the right thing to do.

Whipstress ~


Heh! My mother used to say that a man could hear a milliangstrom difference in sound output between two stereo systems but could not hear a woman shout "TAKE OUT THE TRASH!"

However, I really think that you should ask, directly and understandably, for what you want. If you intend your sub (with either gender in the roles) to decode some secret phrases, then you do have an obligation to teach the sub what the phrases are that he or she must recognize and how to decode what they mean. And, in the long run, instead of using coded phrases, wouldn't it be better to just say, "Get me some coffee, honey?"

I think open and direct communication is important for the sub, too. I certainly can ask for what I want, and I'm expected to communicate my needs. She still decides what I *get*, but it's part and parcel of my duties to communicate.



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Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/12/2010 4:50:30 PM   
LookieNoNookie


Posts: 12216
Joined: 8/9/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Wowser are there some cranky bitchboys on this site or WHAT!! How come the ones who are all into female superiority as proclaimed by some website or another are the ones who get huffy the fastest? These Elise Sutton types of websites drive me mad with their notions of what dominant women SHOULD be like!

I give orders, clearly and graciously. I say thank you. Works with my staff, works with my sub, worked with my students back when I was a teacher. I don't have to raise my voice, or be all faux southern belle. If I say "Please do X when you get a chance", that means just that---and if I say, "I'd like some coffee", it means that I wants me some coffee as soon as you brew it kthx! Not too difficult!

Regarding the chastity question, it would depend on the woman. Personally, I would rather make a man orgasm until he can't anymore, rather than keep him locked up. That's just me. Of course, my idea of fun CAN be mixed with chastity as well!


I've never been a huge fan of chastity either....not exactly sure what the draw is on that one but...to each their own :)

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/12/2010 6:09:26 PM   
LadyHibiscus


Posts: 27124
Joined: 8/15/2005
From: Island Of Misfit Toys
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LookieNoNookie


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyHibiscus

Wowser are there some cranky bitchboys on this site or WHAT!! How come the ones who are all into female superiority as proclaimed by some website or another are the ones who get huffy the fastest? These Elise Sutton types of websites drive me mad with their notions of what dominant women SHOULD be like!

I give orders, clearly and graciously. I say thank you. Works with my staff, works with my sub, worked with my students back when I was a teacher. I don't have to raise my voice, or be all faux southern belle. If I say "Please do X when you get a chance", that means just that---and if I say, "I'd like some coffee", it means that I wants me some coffee as soon as you brew it kthx! Not too difficult!

Regarding the chastity question, it would depend on the woman. Personally, I would rather make a man orgasm until he can't anymore, rather than keep him locked up. That's just me. Of course, my idea of fun CAN be mixed with chastity as well!


I've never been a huge fan of chastity either....not exactly sure what the draw is on that one but...to each their own :)


Yeah, me, I prefer ready access to the goods... but hey! It's a world of folks!

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/12/2010 7:30:50 PM   
SthrnCom4t


Posts: 343
Joined: 9/9/2007
Status: offline 		Once again, thank you to AAkasha for your excellent post on 'context'. I have great appreciation for your ability to articulate the nuances of power exchange!

More than once, I've used the technique of lowering my voice, so the submissive would have to pay closer attention. This draws someone in, more than shouting. Not barking orders, can be considered the same....if he is good, he'll pay closer attention to understand what I want, and to be honest, that THRILLS me. Sometimes, I'm not direct.....on purpose :) (read, it's a TEST).

To address the OP's question re: chastity - Chastity is a tool, like many in the tool box. For some men, it works wonderfully to help them focus, and is a very powerful tool. For others, they have a different reaction, and their sex drive actually diminishes. So, there is no hard and fast rule, as several of the other posters above have stated.






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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/13/2010 6:43:46 AM   
johnsub9az


Posts: 11
Joined: 2/12/2009
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: AAkasha
Long ago I learned that it was *fun* to be commanding and get reactions from a man. 


To briefly interject, it seems to me that comands from Akasha would be very effective, as well as coy hints from homedespot.  The difference is the person giving the commands or hints and how they are given.

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Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/13/2010 6:52:54 AM   
sunshinemiss


Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline
quote:

please offer a different photo if possible.


See, that Carrie O... she's so succinct and clear.

Me? I'd have said "ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! BRAIN BLEACH!"


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Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Around Her Finger - 1/13/2010 10:24:45 AM   
MsMillgrove


Posts: 260
Joined: 5/27/2008
Status: offline 		The idea of adopting a female language in which to express my wishes, knocks my sox off. Yucky. That concept is 180 degrees away from a female led household. Who talks like this?

This is vague bs. If you need something of your sub, you ask him/her politely to do it for you. If you've got a well-trained one, they might even ask, "Would madame like an English muffin this morning with her coffee?" hehe. and i mean that said in a charming tone of voice, not as a stuffy butler.

I didn't read the book/website but giving that dialogue to a newbie domme--whew I seriously object! If someone wants to develope their own style and they feel this is the way to go, well ok. Her choice. But let's not Start Out with this crap...as the suggested way to go.


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Profile   Post #: 40
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