Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (Full Version)

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Brain -> Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 9:22:12 PM)

I think it's very appropriate! After all, if you or I get a ticket, we have to pay and it hurts, but a wealthy person feels no pain over a 50$ ticket and won't care. They should feel the same pain.

Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich - World - Canoe.ca

GENEVA (AP) — European countries are increasingly pegging speeding fines to income as a way to punish wealthy scofflaws who would otherwise ignore tickets.

Advocates say a $290,000 (euro203,180.83) speeding ticket slapped on a millionaire Ferrari driver in Switzerland was a fair and well-deserved example of the trend.

Germany, France, Austria and the Nordic countries also issue punishments based on a person’s wealth. In Germany the maximum fine can be as much as $16 million compared to only $1 million in Switzerland. Only Finland regularly hands out similarly hefty fine to speeding drivers, with the current record believed to be a euro170,000 (then about $190,000) ticket in 2004.

She said rich drivers were lightly punished until Swiss voters approved a 2007 penal law overhaul that let judges hand down fines based on personal income and wealth for moderate misdemeanors including excessive speeding and drunk driving. Before, they had to assign relatively small fixed penalties or — rarely — a few days in prison.

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2010/01/10/12411016-ap.html



SweetPoosy -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 9:31:35 PM)

I am in total agreement...until I win the lottery and want to drive my Ferrari!



rulemylife -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 9:43:38 PM)

Sounds to me like just something to generate revenue.

Why should someone with a higher income pay more of a penalty than anyone else?



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 9:46:30 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Sounds to me like just something to generate revenue.

Why should someone with a higher income pay more of a penalty than anyone else?



Because Brain says so, obviously.



DCWoody -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 10:08:54 PM)

Because otherwise there's no deterrent. A millionaire could simply ignore the speed limit, as fines would be nothing to them.



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 10:13:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Because otherwise there's no deterrent. A millionaire could simply ignore the speed limit, as fines would be nothing to them.


And the cost of food means nothing to them, so they should pay more for the same produce. And the cost of TVs mean nothing to them so they should pay more for the same TV. And the cost of a car means nothing to them, so they should pay more for a car.

Its a horseshit argument, made by an ignoramus. Im surprised someone else chimed in with the same stupidity so quickly.



SweetPoosy -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 10:21:28 PM)

You are using an apples and orange analogy here. Food and "hard goods" should all be priced as the market will bear. But no one is making the wealthy disregard the speed limit.

Using your logic, people with DUI's and multiple points on their drivers license shouldn't pay more insurance, and when you get more than one DUI, you shouldn't have to pay more in fines...is that correct?

Also, big multi million dollar businesses should only be fined the same fines as small businesses...and on, and on...




rulemylife -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 10:22:54 PM)

Well, my point being that there are penalties other than fines to consider.  I don't know the driving laws in the countries in question but I am assuming they have a license suspension system for habitual traffic offenders.  So everyone faces the same legal penalty.  Why should the fines be different?  The article implies that the wealthy are getting away with something but they will face the same legal penalties as anyone else. 



SweetPoosy -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 10:24:49 PM)

I hate trying to post when I am tired!

They may eventually face the same legal penalties...however look at how often the weathy get away with things because they can buy their way out by hiring a lawyer.

If you choose to drive, and you know that your country has a sliding scale of fines, then it may provide the deterrent that is needed to keep you from speeding...and recklessly endangering others by your behaviour.

(So speaks the woman who creamed a deer whilst going 95mhp...) Like I said, it's great until I get a Ferrari!



willbeurdaddy -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 10:26:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SweetPoosy

You are using an apples and orange analogy here. Food and "hard goods" should all be priced as the market will bear. But no one is making the wealthy disregard the speed limit.

Using your logic, people with DUI's and multiple points on their drivers license shouldn't pay more insurance, and when you get more than one DUI, you shouldn't have to pay more in fines...is that correct?

Also, big multi million dollar businesses should only be fined the same fines as small businesses...and on, and on...




There are fines for disregarding the speed limit because of the perceived social cost of exceeding the speed limit. That cost is no greater depending on who is breaking the speed limit.

No, my logic doesnt at all lead to that conclusion, it is a total non sequiter.

Businesses should be fined in accordance with the social cost of whatever their infraction is. It may happen that a company does indeed have a larger social cost to an infraction, in which case it should pay more, so wrong again.



DCWoody -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 10:33:53 PM)

Well this forum is certainly a place of nonsensical comparisons and personal insults.

The price of bread is not considered a punishment for buying bread. Bread is not illegal. The government does not want to stop people eating bread.



Silence8 -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 10:41:21 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

Sounds to me like just something to generate revenue.

Why should someone with a higher income pay more of a penalty than anyone else?



To equalize the effect, most generally.



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/11/2010 11:36:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Well this forum is certainly a place of nonsensical comparisons and personal insults.

The price of bread is not considered a punishment for buying bread. Bread is not illegal. The government does not want to stop people eating bread.



I guarantee you the government would love handing out 100K tickets as well. It's the same reason cigarettes are legal, they like the cash, more than they dislike the cancer.

What I find disturbing is the fact that law enforcement is not a pure profession by far. So, let's say I spot two speeder or two people I suspect of drinking and driving, or whatever "finable" offense. Who am I going to go after, seeing my police department is suffering budget cutbacks. Will I pursue the beater with the heater, or the 300K car. More than likely I'd be much more prone to strictly enforce the law on those that appear to have more money in order to facilitate collection of heavier fines.

Thus this type of unequal fining based on personal circumstance is more akin to an order to direct enforcement more heavily on those with means.





Politesub53 -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/12/2010 2:32:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: DCWoody

Because otherwise there's no deterrent. A millionaire could simply ignore the speed limit, as fines would be nothing to them.


And the cost of food means nothing to them, so they should pay more for the same produce. And the cost of TVs mean nothing to them so they should pay more for the same TV. And the cost of a car means nothing to them, so they should pay more for a car.

Its a horseshit argument, made by an ignoramus. Im surprised someone else chimed in with the same stupidity so quickly.


Willbe, you are a hypocrite of the highest order. You recently posted how wrong it was for people to make personal attacks. Yet faced with an argument you dont like, you quickly resort to such tactics.

The reasononing behind the fine is simple. The guy in question was driving way above the speed limit, in a built up area. he had been fined for speeding on several occasions. His wealth is such that an ordinary fine has no effect. Hence the size of the fine.

As for should he pay more for a car...well duh, he was driving a Ferrari. [8|]



kittinSol -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/12/2010 3:56:12 AM)

Besides, the SWISS started it all. The Swiss VOTERS approved of such a law. You can hardly accuse the Swiss of being rich-hatin' soshialishts, can you [8D] ?

It's appropriate: fines should go up with someone's wealth. If a poor fuck is fined100CHF for speeding, it will have a bigger impact on him than if a rich fuck is fined 100CHF for the same offense. It follows that the rich bastard should be fined in proportion to his bank account, so that the fine has the same impact on his behaviour than if he were a poor sonofabitch.




calamitysandra -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/12/2010 4:18:53 AM)

As much as I would love to point at the Swiss as the guilty party, the system is widely used in Germany, not only where it comes to traffic penalties.
The so called "Tagessatz" is an instrument used in the German legal system. Fines in the German criminal law are not imposed as an absolute amount, but as a number of Tagessätze. The amount one has to pay for each Tagessatz is determined by the money a person earns. One Tagessatz being the earnings of one month divided by 30.




pahunkboy -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/12/2010 4:38:40 AM)

in some areas tho- the rich, the connected are never touched.

tix here are steep- and if you dont pay you can go to jail-- in the jail- they now charge room and board.

the good news is on a local level - we do not tix as a cash cow.   We never have.

cops tend to go after the younger daring drivers....    and most the time all deserved.

there is no talking or fighting tix.

I dont see the idea as bad- but not necessarily as good.    The Governor has exhausted 8 drivers.  they drive fast until no license- then he simply gets a new driver.



DomImus -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/12/2010 6:07:06 AM)

A post from Brain that I agree with.

Hell hath frozen over.



Moonhead -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/12/2010 6:33:33 AM)

I find it hard to give a shit about this either way.
Now when they start imposing punitive and huge fines on shriners driving those stupid go karts, that I could get behind. I hate those stupid fez wearing cunts...



Silence8 -> RE: Massive traffic fines for Europe's super rich (1/12/2010 11:19:06 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: calamitysandra

As much as I would love to point at the Swiss as the guilty party, the system is widely used in Germany, not only where it comes to traffic penalties.
The so called "Tagessatz" is an instrument used in the German legal system. Fines in the German criminal law are not imposed as an absolute amount, but as a number of Tagessätze. The amount one has to pay for each Tagessatz is determined by the money a person earns. One Tagessatz being the earnings of one month divided by 30.




Maybe we could apply the same principle to bank transactions....

Yes, a wonderful idea.


Yes, ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha (satisfied laugh)



Seriously, though, that would put a stop to 'high-frequency banking' as fast as you can say 'douche bags, get a real job.'



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