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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 1:26:46 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda


True, but if tomatoes cost as much as $3,000 a pound, a heck of a lot more people would grow their own tomatoes. I'm all for legalizing it, and I do agree it would increase tax revenues, but I don't think it would be as much as a lot of proponents are projecting. I think there are a lot of stoners who would be quite capable of growing their own, but are deterred by the legal risks. Not everyone who smokes dope is a grungy teenager with dreadlocks and tattoos - tens of millions of ordinary, middle class suburbians with respectable careers blaze up on a regular basis, but have to be discrete because they just have way too much to lose if they got busted with a basement full of black widow. Their lives would be ruined.

But make it legal, and they'll be all over it. It's not as easy as a lot of people assume, but it's not exactly rocket surgery either. Anyone with a green thumb, some handyman skills, a little common sense, a few hundred square feet of spare space, and a couple thousand bucks for the startup costs can do it. In most cases, it would pay for itself in 6 or 8 months, and from that point on it's pretty much all gravy. If it's legal, I think an awful lot of people would opt for that, especially with the economy the way it is now and everybody looking for a way to save a few bucks.



Except you are forgetting the convenience issue that was brought up earlier.

There are places where you can buy beer-making kits but it is not worth my time and effort.

Plus, I'm sure if it were legalized there would be laws attached preventing clandestine operations the same way you can't operate a still in your backyard and sell liquor to your neighbors.

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 1:39:59 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

The Bush Justice Department actively pursued those who sold and used medical marijuana. The Obama administration has relented on the policy. The Obama administration has relented on the policy.

Justice Says It Won't Go After Medical-Marijuana Users - TIME


Reality...

A massive DEA operation featuring dozens of heavily armed agents and at least four helicopters ended with the arrests of five people in California's Lake County last week. According to California NORML, the arrests are believed to be the first since the Obama administration announced it would not target medical marijuana providers in states where it is legal unless they violated both state and federal law.The DEA seized 154 marijuana plants from Upper Lake resident Tom Carter, and arrested him, former UMCC dispensary operator Scott Feil and his wife, Steven Swanson, and Brett Bassignani. Carter is a registered medical marijuana patient and provider, and his wife, Jamie Ceridono, told the Lake County News he was growing for several patients and his grow was legal under state law.The genesis of the bust appears to lie with an alleged May deal between a DEA informant and Bassignani to purchase marijuana. According to documents filed by Carter's federal defenders late last week, the informant claimed to have arranged to buy marijuana from Carter and to have left a voicemail message for Carter to set up the deal. That same informant allegedly made a deal to buy marijuana from Bassignani."California already has enough federal marijuana criminals," said CANORML coordinator Dale Gieringer, "It's time for concrete changes in federal law."While the Obama administration has announced it would not go after law-abiding medical marijuana providers, the DEA has conducted at le

However, the standard, "It's Bush's fault!" can be used if you want to stipulate to the impotency of this Administration to 'CHANGE!' anything.

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 2:07:35 PM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Rhetoric...

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

The Bush Justice Department actively pursued those who sold and used medical marijuana. The Obama administration has relented on the policy. The Obama administration has relented on the policy.

Justice Says It Won't Go After Medical-Marijuana Users - TIME


Reality...

A massive DEA operation featuring dozens of heavily armed agents and at least four helicopters ended with the arrests of five people in California's Lake County last week. According to California NORML, the arrests are believed to be the first since the Obama administration announced it would not target medical marijuana providers in states where it is legal unless they violated both state and federal law.The DEA seized 154 marijuana plants from Upper Lake resident Tom Carter, and arrested him, former UMCC dispensary operator Scott Feil and his wife, Steven Swanson, and Brett Bassignani. Carter is a registered medical marijuana patient and provider, and his wife, Jamie Ceridono, told the Lake County News he was growing for several patients and his grow was legal under state law.The genesis of the bust appears to lie with an alleged May deal between a DEA informant and Bassignani to purchase marijuana. According to documents filed by Carter's federal defenders late last week, the informant claimed to have arranged to buy marijuana from Carter and to have left a voicemail message for Carter to set up the deal. That same informant allegedly made a deal to buy marijuana from Bassignani."California already has enough federal marijuana criminals," said CANORML coordinator Dale Gieringer, "It's time for concrete changes in federal law."While the Obama administration has announced it would not go after law-abiding medical marijuana providers, the DEA has conducted at le

However, the standard, "It's Bush's fault!" can be used if you want to stipulate to the impotency of this Administration to 'CHANGE!' anything.


From the TIME article:

Holder made clear that the department would not turn a blind eye to those who use medical-marijuana laws as a fig leaf for illegal use, saying that traffickers exploiting the laws should still expect to be pursued. "We will not tolerate drug traffickers who hide behind claims of compliance with state law to mask activities that are clearly illegal," Holder said.

Without researching the specific case involved I won't comment.

The reason I referenced the article to begin with was not to get into a Bush-Obama debate but to point out that Holder made it very clear that federal drug laws would still be rigorously enforced.

But since you wanted to head down that road, this is from your link:

The administration has not announced any changes in federal laws or regulations around medical marijuana, and Bush appointees continue to serve in the DEA and the US Attorney's Office of Northern California, which is prosecuting the case.







< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/13/2010 2:16:40 PM >

(in reply to Mercnbeth)
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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 2:20:20 PM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

But since you wanted to head down that road, this is from your link:

The administration has not announced any changes in federal laws or regulations around medical marijuana, and Bush appointees continue to serve in the DEA and the US Attorney's Office of Northern California, which is prosecuting the case.


Agreed and I'm glad you used the road that was paved; "...the impotency of this Administration to 'CHANGE!' anything."


< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/13/2010 2:37:19 PM >

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 3:16:53 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		well if we free up the DEA they can bust more Amish raw milk farmers.....

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Profile   Post #: 65
RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 4:54:57 PM   
xXMasterXx


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Status: offline 		There is nothing in the constitution that says you can't grow and smoke marjuana....I hope you will take the time to watch this 8 hour class on the constitution.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nOMbfsgZ9s

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 5:08:36 PM   
MzMia


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kirata

The first step to legalize marijuana in California could happen Tuesday.

Lawmakers will vote on Assembly Bill 390 -- legislation to tax and regulate marijuana. The assembly's Public Safety Committee is expected to vote after a hearing that begins at 9 a.m. hearing in Sacramento.

The bill, authored by San Francisco Assemblyman Tom Ammiano, would essentially treat pot the same way alcohol is treated under the law and would allow adults over 21 to possess, smoke and grow marijuana...

Among the supporters of legalizing marijuana is a group of police, judges and prosecutors who formed a group called Law Enforcement Against Prohibition. The organization firmly believes that legalizing marijuana for adults will help improve American society by restricting youth access to it and taking the attraction away from cartels that traffic pot as an illegal substance.

Proponents of the bill estimate that legalization could bring nearly a billion dollars a year into California's coffers, independent of the indirect financial benefits to the state. Comments?

K.
 


I will have to start watching this, I doubt it will pass.
BUT, they DO have medical marijuana, and so many places where you can get a prescription for it in San Francisco.
Just waiting for the natural progression of aging to give me a medical reason for it.
Wonderful place that San Francisco, you can get medical marijuana for a variety of conditions.
I left a tiny piece of my heart in San Francisco, I love that city!!


< Message edited by MzMia -- 1/13/2010 5:13:34 PM >

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 5:44:15 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Except you are forgetting the convenience issue that was brought up earlier.

There are places where you can buy beer-making kits but it is not worth my time and effort.


Nah, I'm not forgetting that. I'm not saying that everyone who owns a bong is suddenly going to convert their basement to a grow op as soon as it becomes legal to do so. But I don't think there's any question that a lot of people who don't want to take the risk now are going to be motivated to give it a whirl if they no longer have to worry about losing their job, having their house seized, and going to prison. Heck, if there are that many people who are willing to take those risks now to grow dope, think how many more will be willing if there are no consequences at all. I'm betting the number will be large, even if prices drop 50%.

With a startup investment of less than $2,000, I could convert my spare bedroom to a grow op that would easily produce several pounds a year, using conservative estimates. I'm not saying it would be easy, because as I mentioned earlier growing weed is a lot more complicated than a lot of people realize, but it's definitely doable and if you're talking about that much money, a lot of people who are serious about their smoke are going to make the move. People who only smoke a few ounces a year probably won't bother, but then the government won't be collecting that much tax from those people anyway. People who smoke a lot (and who would therefore be paying more in taxes), would be much more motivated to just grow their own.


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Plus, I'm sure if it were legalized there would be laws attached preventing clandestine operations the same way you can't operate a still in your backyard and sell liquor to your neighbors.



Sure, that's entirely possible, because they'll probably still classify it as a drug. But even so, that won't prevent anyone from growing their own. The government can't tax what you grow in your back yard. That's the main point I'm making - if people in California can grow 10 or 15 plants in their own backyard, they'll never need to buy a single ounce from the corner marijuana store, and the government won't be collecting any tax from people who choose to do this.


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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 9:16:41 PM   
DarkSteven


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quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

How are they going to get around Federal law that prohibits it?


Right now, the word that I have heard is that the feds have been told that chasing after marijuana in states where it's legal, is their last priority.

But you raise a VERY interesting point... could this be the issue that gets states to fight back against the slow, steady power grab that the federal government has done, in violation of the original concept of strong states and a weak national government?

The benefits for the states are tremendous.  They shift the profits for growing mj from Mexican rug lords to legal growers based in the state, they allow regulation of an otherwise illegal and dangerous industry, they provide an attractive tax revenue source, and they avoid pissing away cops' time.  I would hope that the states would be prepared to fight if necessary for those benefits.


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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 10:22:16 PM   
lofa


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Status: offline 		I think:
We The People (and remember that that makes us our own government) will get the laws regarding marijuana illegality repealled in their entirety if We The People will all pull together for it.
Tired of stupid laws that WTP made which should have never come to be? WTP have the power to change each and every one of them. It takes only the excercizing of that power.
WTP could just about right now proclaim to those we have put over us that we're going to elect them in and out via our home computers. On a basis of the vote is being taken NOW!
Do you know that your voice is now immediately accessable by our President, should you choose to post a Tweet to him or go post on his blog? What can be said about that except that we should each and every one USE IT! It's even better than all that petition type stuff where in order for your word to be heard you'll have hoops including your own status perhaps to jump through and possibly the troubles of locating the paper to add your name to.
I'm gonna quit after saying that for the price of 128 watts per hour of on-time power, 12 years ago I knew of a guy who had a 3 foot high and 18 inch wide controlled enviroment for growing that would put out 1.5 pounds of buds and a bunch of leafage too, EVERY 6 WEEKS!, and at the time those units were costing around 400 bux with about 80 bux a year in nutrients required. I looked up those units the other day and they're still not much above 600 dollars shipped to this area, FER THE BETTER ONES!!!! (And if yer needing to know of which I speak, get a copy of hightimes. They'll still be advertised there probably.)
Great Days All.

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/13/2010 11:30:55 PM   
WyldHrt


Posts: 6412
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Status: offline 		Taxing the use of marijuana and the growers/ sellers is only one way that legalizing could help the economy. This country imports most of the hemp used for industrial purposes, because in most states growing it is a no-no (it is viewed the same way as cannabis used for smoking).
How much revenue could be realized from growing hemp in the US for uses such as rope, paper, fabric, building materials, animal bedding, weed control, fuel, etc? It's called "weed" for a reason; and I have to wonder why the hell we aren't growing much more of a "weed" that can be used for so many things? 

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/14/2010 12:12:42 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXMasterXx

There is nothing in the constitution that says you can't grow and smoke marjuana....I hope you will take the time to watch this 8 hour class on the constitution.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nOMbfsgZ9s


There is nothing in the Constitution that says I can't walk out of my house naked right now and go for a stroll, but I'm pretty sure I'll get arrested.

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/14/2010 12:32:25 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

But even so, that won't prevent anyone from growing their own. The government can't tax what you grow in your back yard. That's the main point I'm making - if people in California can grow 10 or 15 plants in their own backyard, they'll never need to buy a single ounce from the corner marijuana store, and the government won't be collecting any tax from people who choose to do this.



Then you get back to the convenience of buying it from the corner store.

People can grow all kinds of vegetables in their backyards, but how many do?  Have you been in the produce section of a grocery store lately?  They now have containers of pre-chopped onions, peppers, watermelon, cantaloupe, etc., so you don't even have to break out a knife.


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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/14/2010 12:39:54 AM   
rulemylife


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth

Agreed and I'm glad you used the road that was paved; "...the impotency of this Administration to 'CHANGE!' anything."



Yes, and let's not forget rewarding failure. 

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/14/2010 6:33:52 AM   
Mercnbeth


Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
Agreed and I'm glad you used the road that was paved; "...the impotency of this Administration to 'CHANGE!' anything."
Yes, and let's not forget rewarding failure. 

No - in this case it was only one, of a long line, of hollow campaign promises and rhetoric. Fact is - the Obama administration has done nothing and hasn't issued any executive order relenting on the Bush Administration policy concerning medical marijuana.

No reward for failure - just ongoing failure.

Unless there another 'bail out' of a failure by this administration that I missed?

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/14/2010 6:39:45 AM   
pahunkboy


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From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: xXMasterXx

There is nothing in the constitution that says you can't grow and smoke marjuana....I hope you will take the time to watch this 8 hour class on the constitution.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nOMbfsgZ9s


There is nothing in the Constitution that says I can't walk out of my house naked right now and go for a stroll, but I'm pretty sure I'll get arrested.



...well  the DEA invented 1971- with class schedules of drugs.  Sneaky eh?

Besides the USA is a corporation- and your birth certificate is a bond- which is monetized.,  and the IRS collections go to the IMF.

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/14/2010 6:45:30 AM   
AquaticSub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: xXMasterXx

There is nothing in the constitution that says you can't grow and smoke marjuana....I hope you will take the time to watch this 8 hour class on the constitution.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_nOMbfsgZ9s


Off-topic...

Is that all you ever post about? Are you unable to make a point without refering to youtube? Do you get paid everyone someone clicks on that link?

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/14/2010 7:19:10 AM   
LadyEllen


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Status: offline 		does anyone seriously believe that Obama is going to take any steps whatever towards legalising, whether openly or by a non enforcement policy? can you imagine how it would be portrayed by his opponents? can you foresee how they'd snap this up and run with it like a dog with a bone from now until next century? it would a wet dream come true for them - and political suicide for him.

the day will come I'm sure. But not under Obama.

E



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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/14/2010 7:30:32 AM   
Mercnbeth


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quote:

does anyone seriously believe that Obama


Comparing the campaign rhetoric to his actions in office - that could be said regarding a number of issues, not just marijuana enforcement.
quote:

imagine how it would be portrayed by his opponents

I think you have captured the problem exactly; too much focus on image makes him incapable of action. Leading, and his campaign on 'CHANGE', should not be contingent on what other people may say. The marijuana issue points to a very minor change in policy. Non-enforcement would not even generate major or many headlines. Redeploying those involved in the enforcement a minor action, and again - he did campaign on the issue.

I do think you hit the nail on the head. Obama's leadership skill, if he has any, is being influenced more by polls and opinion influencing his actions. Pity.

< Message edited by Mercnbeth -- 1/14/2010 7:47:32 AM >

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RE: California to Vote on Legal Marijuana - 1/14/2010 7:44:50 AM   
Kirata


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

it would a wet dream come true for them - and political suicide for him.

Actually, his opponents would have little but hot air to push around. The vast majority of the research on marijuana indicates that its risks to adults are minimal. And it is easily arguable that they are more than offset by the health benefits of reducing stress. Also, THC has been demonstrated to have anti-cancer properties. I think it would be seen as siding with reason over superstition, and garner him respect. It would also offer an economic benefit that his opponents would be hard put to dismiss as unimportant in our current situation. And then there's all the people in every walk of life who smoke the stuff. That's quite a lot of votes.

K.

< Message edited by Kirata -- 1/14/2010 7:47:54 AM >

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