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respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 5:01:59 PM

angeldmort

Posts: 54
Joined: 4/19/2009
Status: offline

I need to get a question of ettiquette settled so I can end the discussion. I understand that everything is dependent on people agreeing to the unwritten code of ethics and mores and that not everyone will, but i need to know what is the "should be if we're doing this for real" of the situation.

I was told that at a munch or play party, its considered innapropriate to approach someone else's slave or sub (collared, or otherwise known to be taken) without greeting, addressing other otherwise acknowlegding their Dominant first and asking their permission. That to do this was somewhat disrespectful of said Dominant, much like coming on to a woman when you know she has a husband.

Now, ideally, if this is true, (please let me know if I misunderstood) the proper response from the submissive should be in the nature of "Thank you, but you should refer to my Dominant first."

Now, the next step from that would be that if your sub states in their online profile that they are owned or collared, etc, that an interested Dominant would hopefully extend that same respect when contacting them. Yes, I absolutely understand that this is online and to expect the drive-bys and the wolves, but we're talking someone that contacts them with intent, not a random mailing.

If this person actually wants to know the sub, would it not be indicative of the person's character that their first contact ignored the sub's stated commitment? If a person is serious about this lifestyle, or hell, even if they are only playing at it but assuming the role, should that translate into respecting the common courtesies, rules, protocals, etc?

If this doesn't happen, then should the sub not consider it as any other horndog out to get a quick peice? I tend to be pretty laid back in a lot of things, and VERY causal with friends and family (i am the queen of obnixious raspberries and smartassery) but I consider manners and basic common respect for others a strong indicator of the type of person someone is. I don't want to know the kind of people who sneak, cheat, and treat each other disrespectufully. BDSM is complicated enough without adding being rude.

And I would like to state clearly, for the record, that I hold a lothing and hatred for laptop keyboards equalled only to that which I hold for free range rude people.

Post #: 1

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 5:11:48 PM

CalifChick

Posts: 10717
Joined: 10/28/2007
From: California
Status: offline

Everyone's dynamic is different, so it is difficult to make any sweeping generalization of what should or should not be done.

Approaching someone is not the same as coming on to someone, unless, in fact, you are coming on to them. If you know that someone's dynamic requires the dominant to be approached first, that's what you do. The submissive should let anyone know, that approaches them, if their dominant prefers something different. This can be, as you said, something like, "Thank you. My dominant prefers that you speak to him before speaking to me." The wording is slightly different in that I used "my dominant prefers" rather than "you should".

Cali

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(in reply to angeldmort)

Post #: 2

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 5:15:38 PM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
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If in fact it is stated in the submissive's profile that all initial contacts should be directed at his/her Dominant/Owner, then yes, it is rude if one fails to do that. Period. Whether other people hold that same view of etiquette is on them. Some people do not follow that tenant. However, it is always rude to not respect what is written in a person's profile regarding that person's own protocols. Sure, I may or may not have those same protocols, but if I come across someone who does, the polite choice for Me to make is either a) contact submissive's dominant first, b) make no contact at all. Not all of us are polite. Some of us like to believe that nobody's rules matter unless they are our own rules. So, yeah, in my opinion, they were rude.

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(in reply to angeldmort)

Post #: 3

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 5:21:54 PM

AquaticSub

Posts: 14867
Joined: 12/27/2005
Status: offline

~Fast Reply~

Honestly? I don't consider approaching a sub online to be a huge deal. I consider the message to be a big deal.

Now, by this I don't mean that those who want others to get their doms permission first are wrong. What I mean is, I get plenty of messages from dominants who have a comment or question about someone I said here on the forums. They message me and probably never even look at my profile. They aren't out to steal me or invade Val's turf. Getting one's panties in a twist over that seems pretty silly to me when all one has to do is politely go "Hey, no offense but my owner and I prefer that you get permission before talking to me".

Now, if a person knows that this rule is in place and disrespects it anyway, then it's exactly the same as any other attempt to disrespect or belittle the relationship. I don't see it as particularly sacred.

At a munch or play party, that rule of thumb doesn't take into account people like me who frequently attend without their owner. What are you gonna do, call him at work? And, for that matter, if you don't know the sub/slave in question how do you know who is their owner without asking them? Do you just point at them and go "HEY! WHO OWNS THIS ONE?". I suppose at some groups the sub/slave is never unleashed or far from their owner but it's pretty common for owner and ownee to not be glued to each other at the groups I attend.

Personally, what I actually find offensive are the people who don't believe me when I say that I have blanket permission to interact with and play with dominants at my discretion. To me, that says that they think Valyraen has a girl who would lie about her rules and I do think it's an insult to both him and I.

_____________________________

Without my dominance you cannot submit. Without your submission I cannot dominate. You are my equal in this, though our roles are different.-Val

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(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 4

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 5:24:21 PM

tazzygirl

Posts: 37833
Joined: 10/12/2007
Status: offline

hi Angelmort

first, let me say... beautiful picture.

second.. welcome to the world of collarme. your rules are your rules, that doesnt mean everyone will play by them. all subs and slaves get this kind of treatment. the sub in question has two options... one, handle it themselves, explain their Dominants rules, and ignore any other attempts at contact until the two Dominants have talked... or.. two... turn it over to their own Dominant for handling. beyond this, all the sub can do is block those who do not agree to the owner's requirements.

i have found, on a personal note, that Dominants who contact me for more than friendship are receptive to being told i am in a relationship with someone and a nice thank you for their interest. beyond that, there isnt much either of you can do besides blocking.

~edited to correct the name

< Message edited by tazzygirl -- 1/12/2010 5:25:18 PM >

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(in reply to angeldmort)

Post #: 5

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 5:35:15 PM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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Personally, as a Dominant, I run a dynamic that is high protocol. In the way I do things, you would be absolutely correct in the way you stated your original. I tend to keep these practices on line as well as in person. At the very minimum, I will send My best wishes to the Dominant at some point in any correspondence.

For those who are aware that these practices are present in My dynamic with My boy, I expect the same in return. That includes asking My permission should they want to ask clip for his assistance in some area.

Is it an absolute? No. If a matter has a level of urgency that these things can't happen, I can understand. I do, however, expect the other Dominant in question to explain the circumstances.

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(in reply to tazzygirl)

Post #: 6

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 5:39:37 PM

SimplyIsaac

Posts: 376
Joined: 12/20/2008
Status: offline

My opinion? It is a violation of fairly obvious ethics to contact and show interest—however abstractly—in a submissive who has clearly stated his status and loyalties. It is true that everyone has different "rules", but that's all the more reason to exercise caution rather than assume "anything goes". When in doubt, get the scoop on expected protocol. I don't think it's wrong to ask said submissive/slave what those protocols are, either, as long as you show this awareness and respect for the relationship.

(in reply to angeldmort)

Post #: 7

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 5:41:08 PM

mc1234

Posts: 683
Joined: 10/4/2008
Status: offline

It's not our dynamic for someone to request permission of E to speak with me, but if it were and I had it on my profile, then yes, I would find it rude if someone ignored that.

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(in reply to angeldmort)

Post #: 8

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 6:09:20 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
Status: offline

Master isn't all that concerned with who approaches me. He knows I'm an adult and I can speak so all I have to do is say "thanks but I'm taken and not interested".

I've never had a problem in approaching others either then again I don't use come on lines or hit on people. I just try to be friendly and strike up conversations. If someone doesn't want to speak to me all they have to do is say so or walk away.

(in reply to mc1234)

Post #: 9

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 6:10:46 PM

DomImus

Posts: 2004
Joined: 3/17/2009
Status: offline

As far as munches and play parties go it has always depended on the venue for me. I used to attend a local munch group and it was rather informal and mingling and meeting people (not hitting on them) was encouraged. Anytime I went to 1763 in Atlanta I assumed up front that everyone was high protocol and whilst there I never spoke to anybody that I don't already know from the aforementioned munch group to make sure I didn't trample someone's delicate protocol. This probably explains why I went to 1763 so infrequently. I found it sorta stuffy and cliquish.

I don't sent much cmail since I am not actively looking. If I was, I would honor any contact protocol request I read in a profile. I have no reason to contact a collared submissive so that point is moot. If she is uncollared but has some protection arrangement with some dominant then that point is also moot. I wouldn't woo a dominant to meet a submissive. So in the end I'd only be contacting uncollared and unrestricted submissives.

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(in reply to angeldmort)

Post #: 10

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 6:43:38 PM

sweetsub1957

Posts: 2201
Joined: 4/28/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Domin8tingUrDrmz

If in fact it is stated in the submissive's profile that all initial contacts should be directed at his/her Dominant/Owner, then yes, it is rude if one fails to do that. Period.

And let's hope the sub makes it known in their profile Who their Dominant is, so that contact can be made.

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In lowering yourself to talking behind my back, you're perfectly positioned to kiss my ass.

An it harm none, do what ye wilt.

(in reply to Domin8tingUrDrmz)

Post #: 11

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 7:14:21 PM

sexysweets

Posts: 11
Joined: 1/4/2010
Status: offline

Personally I try to respect the way people say they want to be interacted with...

Unless someone has stated in their profile that all communication goes to their dominant person I do not assume that is necessary. If they stated that it should ideally people would respect that.

I try to respect other people, but I do not expect respect from anyone. If I had a dominant and they wanted all my communication to go through them (which in the case of my last dom, he did want other dominants to approach him and not me) it would be up to me to respect his rules, not for other people to respect his rules...

(in reply to angeldmort)

Post #: 12

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 7:17:43 PM

KatyLied

Posts: 13029
Joined: 2/24/2005
From: Pennsylvania
Status: offline

I am unfamiliar with an unwritten code of conduct and/or protocol. I've always been permitted to make my own decisions regarding whom I talk to. I think if you have specific guidelines regarding contact, these should be clearly stated in your profile and acted on accordingly.

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(in reply to angeldmort)

Post #: 13

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/12/2010 7:30:17 PM

Drifa

Posts: 547
Joined: 7/27/2007
From: Rural Texas
Status: offline

I figure I have block and delete, so that if some dominant is coming on to me inappropriately I can... block and delete!

(in reply to KatyLied)

Post #: 14

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/13/2010 4:23:42 AM

DesFIP

Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline

I've gotten lots of mail from other subs, none of whom sent permission forms to The Man first. If you're approaching someone for friendship only, I don't see what the problem is. Now if someone is obviously taken and you don't know that they're available to play with others, then yes it is rude to come on to them. You could ask if they are monogamous or not, or they could tell you. But that's no different then coming on to a woman when her date goes up to the bar to get their drinks. It's just rude and although you might be pleasantly surprised, you shouldn;'t count on it.

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(in reply to Drifa)

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RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/13/2010 6:19:15 AM

sunshinemiss

Posts: 17673
Joined: 11/26/2007
Status: offline

It is TOTALLY not my responsibility to figure out someone else's dynamic. You got some sort of hippie dippie rules you want folks to follow, don't presume that I sit around trying to figure it out. Spell it out. Then I will decide whether or not to respond. For example, on a woman's profile that I'm friendly with here, her Dom had written that he is to be contacted or something first. So, I wrote a note to him asking to have a chat with her. There are some people I wouldn't do that for. But you say "this is how we do it", then I decide if it's worth it TO ME to follow your rules. There are some people I would never do that with. *pffffffffft.

At a real life event, if the s-type is obviously in service, leave them be. If their eyes are downcast, leave them be. Body language... seriously. Read it.

In the end, as I always say, people forgive mistakes of technique but not mistakes of the heart. Be respectful and pleasant, and it will get you far.

good luck,
sunshine

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(in reply to DesFIP)

Post #: 16

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/13/2010 7:13:13 AM

masterlink65

Posts: 683
Joined: 11/3/2007
Status: offline

old guard protocols clearly state that a collared slave is NOT to be approached by another master or dom, other than social manners, such as excuse me, or is this seat taken sort of thing. but to approach a collared slave is like me going up to someones wife while that man is standing there and asking her for a date. pretty fucking rude, inconsiderate, and disrespectful.

and within our lifestyle, going that extra step of realizing we are into something different. one might be lead to believe that the people in this lifestyle may have some sort of enlightenment and treat others according. but it seems to be quite the opposite sometimes. you get doms who think they are in charge of everything everywhere, just because they have a submissive playmate. i expect manners and respect from both sides in this lifestyle

(in reply to angeldmort)

Post #: 17

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/13/2010 7:20:48 AM

sexyred1

Posts: 8998
Joined: 8/9/2007
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Funny question..since last night I went to my first munch, ever. It was interesting and I had no clue whatsoever who was with whom, who was what role, nothing. The girl I went with did not know many people there either.

I just saw people and talked to anyone I wanted. But there was some weirdness going on towards the end about some people chatting with certain people. I assumed this iwas the standard drama for any group who has new people entering and not knowing the lay of the land.

I mean, no one was wearing name tags that said, John Doe, sub or Jane Doe, Domme. If someone is so insecure that they get annoyed if you talk to their partner innocently in a social setting, that is their issue. I could see if you tried to slip them your number, but just talking? Come on now...

This is sort of why it took me this long to even attend a munch, because of that dynamic.

< Message edited by sexyred1 -- 1/13/2010 7:22:18 AM >

(in reply to masterlink65)

Post #: 18

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/13/2010 7:37:36 AM

LillyoftheVally

Posts: 1826
Joined: 7/22/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: sexyred1
I just saw people and talked to anyone I wanted. But there was some weirdness going on towards the end about some people chatting with certain people. I assumed this iwas the standard drama for any group who has new people entering and not knowing the lay of the land.

That is so strange, I have never experienced that at all.

I hope aside from that you had fun though :)

To the OP, a lot of the etiquette is a pile of crap. Generally I do what I would do in any social situation, I dont grab peoples willies (unless I am really drunk) I don't scream and shout, I talk to people normally. All this not approaching rubbish, what happens with couples like that when they go to the pub for a pint? Does the dominant one scream when someone talks to their submissive without permission?

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(in reply to sexyred1)

Post #: 19

RE: respect question:contacting someone's slave - 1/13/2010 7:44:27 AM

pompeii

Posts: 934
Joined: 1/4/2007
From: Silicon Valley, San Jose, California
Status: offline

Etiquette is of the moment.

For example, if you're a huge fat slobbery guy loudly approaching someone's quiet little waif of a collared sub, that might not be appropriate.

However, what if you're likewise a quiet shy absolutely charming Dom approaching that same taciturn collared waif.

Might be different. Might not. But, it all depends on the various and sundry social cues in the room at the time.

(in reply to LillyoftheVally)

Post #: 20

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