RE: transition from sub to slave (Full Version)

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myotherself -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 11:29:56 AM)

~FR~

I deliberately avoided having a long-term relationship for several years while I was trying to figure out if I was sub or slave. I know now that I'm submissive, and totally not slave material.

There won't be a transition from sub to slave for me - it's sub all the way!

(...and LillyoftheVally - it must be the slaves with the feathers cos I checked and I'm feather-free...[:D])




xxblushesxx -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 11:43:54 AM)

Bunnies never has teh feathers you funny bunny!!




AnimusRex -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 11:44:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
I'm sure this will ruffle some people's tender sensibilities, but since there is no such thing as a voluntary slave, it's a meaningless question. 


It does ruffle feathers, for the reason that for many people, using the term "slave" is itself the erotic pleasure; it is not enough to call themselves "submissive" or even "internally enslaved" but there are quite a few people for whom that term has enormous power and significance.

This isn't a criticism, but merely to point out that the difference between one who is submissive and who who considers themself enslaved, is merely a matter of their own internal thoughts and feelings; if you think you are a slave, and feel like a slave, then you are. The moment you stop thinking you are, then you aren't.

But it is exactly this that causes angst and disappointment in many; they feel that if slavery is "all in your head" then it is somehow a lesser thing, a fantasy. Which isn't true at all, since there are many things like that, that exist only when we create them in our mind.




osf -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 12:07:14 PM)

the closest i could come to the meaning of slave is someone that needs the relationship so much that they will do most anything to preserve it

or the setting aside your rights and accepting the authority of another over you

they have nothing to do with kink just the relationship




WestBaySlave -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 12:11:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65

have any of you experienced a "wow what difference" with meeting with a potential master for potential collar, as compared to meeting with a dom for play or part time scenes? if so has this changed your outlook on the lifestyle, in regards to your place in it, and where you want to be in it.

i ask this because i had a potential slave visit from NM and he has mentioned his entire outlook on being used by a dom as compared to wanting to be owned by a master, has changed completely. he has no desire to play now without being owned now.

i was wondering if others have experienced this or if it has had a different affect/effect on a sub.



I've experienced that in reverse order. I've always been seeking long-term with a dominant man - whether self-identified as a dom, master, or otherwise - but a couple years ago, after two disappointments in that search, I decided I've give "playing" a try with a local master looking for that. The man had lied about his looks and experience, and all in all, it was a gross and uncomfortable experience with someone I was uncomfortable with and had no emotional connection to. It simply left me depressed and feeling unclean

All of my good experiences were with men I was at least hoping to make a life with.

However I don't associate "dom" with short-term and "master" with long-term. Both can be either in my experience.




Rule -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 12:15:30 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
quote:

ORIGINAL: stef
there is no such thing as a voluntary slave


[8|]
I have met a genuine slave, the real McCoy. There is nothing involuntary about a genuine slave. Anything else does not make the grade.




juliaoceania -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 12:15:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

the closest i could come to the meaning of slave is someone that needs the relationship so much that they will do most anything to preserve it

or the setting aside your rights and accepting the authority of another over you

they have nothing to do with kink just the relationship


I would disagree from what I have seen of slaves on this board... it is not the relationship with a particular person they seek to preserve, or any relationship in general... what I have noticed is that people with this orientation have a need to totally surrender their will to another person.




LillyoftheVally -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 12:18:41 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

the closest i could come to the meaning of slave is someone that needs the relationship so much that they will do most anything to preserve it

or the setting aside your rights and accepting the authority of another over you

they have nothing to do with kink just the relationship


I would disagree from what I have seen of slaves on this board... it is not the relationship with a particular person they seek to preserve, or any relationship in general... what I have noticed is that people with this orientation have a need to totally surrender their will to another person.



I agree, I think that the above definition implies a desperation which I do not think is a part of all people who identify with the term slave, indeed many would and do argue that being a slave is empowering.




osf -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 12:20:09 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

the closest i could come to the meaning of slave is someone that needs the relationship so much that they will do most anything to preserve it

or the setting aside your rights and accepting the authority of another over you

they have nothing to do with kink just the relationship


I would disagree from what I have seen of slaves on this board... it is not the relationship with a particular person they seek to preserve, or any relationship in general... what I have noticed is that people with this orientation have a need to totally surrender their will to another person.



in a relationship?

i never said how they got there

and it's possible for someone to get in a relationship where that dynamic comes about that it wouldn't ever happen with anybody else or ever happen again

just cause and effect

just my opinion




juliaoceania -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 12:26:57 PM)

quote:

n a relationship?

i never said how they got there

and it's possible for someone to get in a relationship where that dynamic comes about that it wouldn't ever happen with anybody else or ever happen again

just cause and effect

just my opinion


That opinion may change as you read more and more people that have lived for decades in this relationship dynamic... at least I hope your opinion is changeable when given fresh information. I know my opinion about those who call themselves "slaves" has changed considerably after befriending a few of them...






osf -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 12:30:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

n a relationship?

i never said how they got there

and it's possible for someone to get in a relationship where that dynamic comes about that it wouldn't ever happen with anybody else or ever happen again

just cause and effect

just my opinion


That opinion may change as you read more and more people that have lived for decades in this relationship dynamic... at least I hope your opinion is changeable when given fresh information. I know my opinion about those who call themselves "slaves" has changed considerably after befriending a few of them...






i'm not wedded to my opinions just because they are mine, i have opinions because i believe they best fit the facts as i understand them

new facts = changed opinions




lally2 -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 12:57:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: osf
.
quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

the closest i could come to the meaning of slave is someone that needs the relationship so much that they will do most anything to preserve it

or the setting aside your rights and accepting the authority of another over you

they have nothing to do with kink just the relationship


I would disagree from what I have seen of slaves on this board... it is not the relationship with a particular person they seek to preserve, or any relationship in general... what I have noticed is that people with this orientation have a need to totally surrender their will to another person.



in a relationship?

i never said how they got there

and it's possible for someone to get in a relationship where that dynamic comes about that it wouldn't ever happen with anybody else or ever happen again

just cause and effect

just my opinion (quote from osf)


speaking for myself it is the person i submit to not the dynamic. i was enslaved to one man i have been submissive to others, i have tried to be enslaved since, but he didnt inspire enslavement at all.

i am not enslaveable to Dominants simply because they wish to dominate me. i may enter a relationship as a submissive and i may become enslaved but that depends entirely on who they are as people. some people do not inspire that feeling in me. it isnt a state of mind at all, well not for me, its a process, organic and completely dependent on the direction and personality of the dominant involved.




lally2 -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 1:02:49 PM)


i wonder how much is considered to be down to the Dominant then, if enslavement is a state of mind rather than an active and mindful response to his dominance.







osf -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 1:10:28 PM)

quote:

speaking for myself it is the person i submit to not the dynamic. i was enslaved to one man i have been submissive to others, i have tried to be enslaved since, but the dynamic didnt inspire enslavement at all.


it's always the person, i use relationship to show that there is a dynamic (whatever) with that person, it's just a frame of reference

there is a person you want a relationship with but you want that relationship to have certain characteristics ie you want a m/s relationship with this person




osf -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 1:12:54 PM)

quote:

i wonder how much is considered to be down to the Dominant then, if enslavement is a state of mind rather than an active and mindful response to his dominance.


the simple

a dominant is the catalyst that enables you to express your sexuality

as for a normal woman a man is a means for her to reproduce, in it's simplest reduction




lally2 -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 1:21:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: osf

quote:

i wonder how much is considered to be down to the Dominant then, if enslavement is a state of mind rather than an active and mindful response to his dominance.


the simple

a dominant is the catalyst that enables you to express your sexuality
as for a normal woman a man is a means for her to reproduce, in it's simplest reduction


change sexuality to personality and yes, a Dominant is the catalyst and engenders submission and/or enslavement. i do not think that all enslavement occurs regardless of the dominant personality.

.......... and im normal - [:)]




AnimusRex -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 1:43:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
I have met a genuine slave, the real McCoy.


I am not sure what you mean by a "real slave".

No, I am not being snarky or sly here. Its just that the word is used by so many is so many different ways that a "real slave" can be anything
This person you met, was it a girl kidnapped and sold for sex traficking?
A man working in a sweatshop in indebted to his employer?
Or a woman in a BDSM relationship who freely chose to enter into a relationship where she ceded control of her life to another person?

See, the problem is that the BDSM/ Gor communities are claiming ownership of a word that means something very different than it was ever intended to mean.

When the word "slave" was coined, it meant economic slavery, implicitly by force or coercion. Standard dictionaries are written by standard people, and assume that all people want to be free.

The concept of consentual non-consent doesn't have a standard English word because it is not a standard thought. We are a tiny subculture, and we have never coined a unique word for it.
Instead we take a standard English word out of its normal context and adapt it to our meanings. What we mean by "slavery" is very different than what the UN might mean. The more we insist that our form of slavery is "real", the more confusion we create.

I think this is the reason this topic never seems to die; BDSM/ Gor/ D/s are things that inhabit that twilight world between dreams and waking life. What we call a "dungeon" is usually a converted warehouse with all the proper permits to allow consenting adults to engage in mutually agreed upon activities; What we call "torture" is two consenting adults inflicting painful play on each other. In short, everything is couched in metaphor and draped in fantasy, and the more people chase after the word "real" the more elusive it becomes.

Even the line between fantasy and reality itself becomes elusive; although the "torture" of being strapped to a rack and whipped is metaphorical, the pain and intense sense of surrender and loss of control is startlingly real. Even though they might be two consenting adults, the experience of being owned and controlled is very real.

But unlike the victims of human trafficking or economic exploitation, we have the ability to turn it on and off, by the mere act of our thinking. We can become enslaved or free by the mere act of proclaiming ourselves to be such.

About all we can really agree on is that some people have relationships where one person chooses to be under the control of another. The nature of that bond is as "real" or "unreal" as those people choose to make it.




littleone35 -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 1:44:38 PM)

To me it seems really semantics it is just a label. Slave/sub/ Dom/Master i identify as a submissive but i am ore then just that but that is the label i have. I think however if Mastrts job did not preclude it and we could live together i could become a slave i am not sure but it could happen. Its not that i would be evoloving just changing my label.

Matt's littleone




peppermint -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 2:12:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: masterlink65

i am not inferring anything. i am simply asking if anyone else has experienced this. if so, how? it is not unheard of.

and this question would apply (from my intentions) to you as well. having found your dom who collared you. was it like "wow, i fucking get it now", or some such moment of clarity? trying to avoid arguing, and trying to gain info



Nope...no wow factor at all.  It was just the next step.  The collaring did not change our relationship at all. 






osf -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/15/2010 2:38:45 PM)

quote:

change sexuality to personality and yes, a Dominant is the catalyst and engenders submission and/or enslavement. i do not think that all enslavement occurs regardless of the dominant personality.


i see sexuality and personality as irretrievably intertwined

and no many factors come into play, but how long will it last without the d/s component





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