RE: transition from sub to slave

RE: transition from sub to slave (Full Version)

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DesFIP -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/17/2010 6:24:26 PM)
Actually you did, you clearly stated in your op that dom/sub is a part time thing and only those who do M/s are full time. But the situation you presented was not that of a dom/sub, it was the difference between someone bottoming in a scene for a top he is not in a relationship with as opposed to being in a relationship. Careful now, your prejudices are showing.

masterlink65 -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/18/2010 7:34:15 AM)
read it again please, because it says as compared to part time play. it does not say,"part time is fake, fulltime is real" i never stated it that way. believe me, if i was intentionally intending to show my prejudice, i assure you, i would be clear. i admit i may have many bias points. i have noticed you, and a couple others like to take what i say, take it out of context, transpose it, and make it say what you want it to say. and by the way, the sub in NM has been looking for a master to serve fulltime in his area/region. after many tries. he decided to try elsewhere. this thread ties in somewhat with the relocation thread i started. i am NOT trying to belittle anyone or make anyone feel their situation may be of lesser value than mine. i have only said that three times or so in this thread. , just trying to gain info. i am asking for input from people who are in relationships, not people who are just looking for play, because obviously if you read into the question correctly it is about relationship feelings ans not play feelings. the other people who posted do not seem to have issue with the question being biased. ... sorry you do thank you for you opinion though.

nakedthinker -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/18/2010 8:51:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterlink65 have any of you experienced a "wow what difference" with meeting with a potential master for potential collar, as compared to meeting with a dom for play or part time scenes? if so has this changed your outlook on the lifestyle, in regards to your place in it, and where you want to be in it. i ask this because i had a potential slave visit from NM and he has mentioned his entire outlook on being used by a dom as compared to wanting to be owned by a master, has changed completely. he has no desire to play now without being owned now. i was wondering if others have experienced this or if it has had a different affect/effect on a sub. I can see where people would presume from the OP's wording of, "...meeting with a potential master for potential collar, as compared to meeting with a dom for play or part time scenes..." that he was suggesting that all full-time, long-term relationships are M/s and all short-term or NSA relationships purely based on play are D/s. Of course, there are many more combinations, and I think believe that the OP has since attempted (although badly) to acknowledge that. I can also see where the OP was really trying to simply ask if any other sub/slave type of people had experienced an epiphany when they were exposed for the first time to the potential for a long-term relationship (be it M/s or D/s) compared to a sceneing, play type of arrangement. Obviously, there is a huge difference between having a scene or a short-term play session with someone, and attempting to start something for the long-term. Both actually ARE relationships (with a relationship being defined as any interaction between two or more people), but with a long-term relationship, there is the expectation of total entanglement and merging of one's lives, including not just physical involvment, but also emotional, spiritual and financial involvement. The vanilla analog would be the difference between casual dating or one night stands versus entering an exclusive relationship. Now, if you REALLY want an epiphany, try to stay with the same person (regardless of relationship dynamic... M/s, D/s, vanilla, etc.) for more than three years, and THEN once all of the new and shiny feelings have long ago worn off, and any chance of infatuation has faded, and you now are confronted with a real person that has dropped all of the illusions that they don't fart, stink, and that they need to shave parts of their body to keep from being scratchy. When you find yourself looking at that person, with all of those flaws and imperfections, and you STILL want to be with them, THAT will be your ultimate "ah ha" moment!

hardbodysub -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/18/2010 11:50:51 PM)
quote: OP, I believe your potential slave experienced the difference between play and a relationship That is precisely what the OP was asking about. It was others who began the digression into the slave vs. sub discussion. quote: You asked a question that does not apply to most submissives that I see posting here.. Then they don't have to bother answering it. quote: I am sure there are some submissives that consider themselves only scening and playing... but my money is that most do not. I think that money would be very much at risk. quote: I'm not sure why you think a Dominant/submissive relationship is only for play or part time scenes. Are you somehow trying to infer that a Master/slave relationship is MORE or BETTER, or TRUER, or MORE COMPLETE??? Too much reading in between the lines. He didn't say that. quote: Anyway: subs cannot transition into a slave, nor vice versa. I absolutely, positively disagree with that statement. Slaves and subs are not two separate species, but people at different positions on the same continuum.

dorrmatt -> RE: transition from sub to slave (1/19/2010 7:41:17 AM)
i had gone years, looking , searching, playing. i thought i would never fulfill my inner need. why is this so difficult? all these people at all these places. scene here, scene there. the whole time, wanting , needing. lots of talk, not much action. oh sure, action once a month at a dungeon party. one day that all changed, and i know exactly what you are talking about. now, the collar never comes off and i couldnt be happier. 12 years now, a little past the point of puppy love.

masterlink65 -> RE: transition from sub to slave (2/11/2010 6:15:15 PM)
thanks for the input everyone. i understand how individualistic this would apply. my alpha slave relinquished control after i helped him through a very hard time in his life, and feels obligated in that sense. which is an entirely different scenario than what is was getting at with my OP. thanks again for any input

littlewonder -> RE: transition from sub to slave (2/11/2010 7:18:41 PM)
When I was single I had zero desire to meet men without some kind of potential for a long term relationship and eventually being owned. Sounds to me like he's just not wanting to fool around. He's had enough of those days and is ready for something more substantial. Makes complete and logical sense to me.

lucylucy -> RE: transition from sub to slave (2/11/2010 8:55:16 PM)
I identify as submissive and owned. My owner and I don't do the collar thing. I can't tell from your OP how important those details might be to you, but in case they matter, there they are. I had a moment about 9-10 months in (after we started living together) where I realized that I would never leave and didn't want the option of leaving. For me, that's truly being owned. Giving up day-to-day control to him came fairly easily, but feeling, with complete openness and sincerity, that I could give up all control to him forever was a "wow what a difference" thing for me. It wasn't any kind of transition from sub to slave--it was more a profound deepening of the relationship. Not sure if I answered your question . . . sorry if I didn't.

catize -> RE: transition from sub to slave (2/11/2010 9:04:57 PM)
I've had experiences where I met a potential dominant/master and my 'WoW' epiphany was that he was neither D or M. I've met self described dominants and my 'WoW' epiphany was that he was a top, not a dominant. R. was initially a dominant in my life, we tried M/s, and my 'WoW' epiphany was that I didn't ask the right questions about what that would mean regarding how much responsibility he would take on as my 'master'. We went back to a D/s relationship. I have had experiences where one man told me I had the potential to be a great slave.......because he wanted a slave. And around the same time, another told me I couldn't be a good slave.... because he wanted a submissive. I believe the transition from submissive to slave is often simply semantics (now that's a nice alliteration if I say so myself!); the partners agree to change their labels; the mindset is already there. One can be a submissive without being a slave. One cannot be a slave without being submissive. As others have pointed out, many of us are happy with submitting to our dominant partner and have no desire to become a slave. It is also true that many dominants have no desire to become a master. Your OP does indeed seem to relegate D/s to part time play only, and suggests M/s is the only way one can have a full time relationship within wiitwd. You may not have meant it that way, but protest all you want, that is how it reads to me. And of course there is a difference between part and full time, between top/bottom play and a solid relationship. But those differences have fuck-all to do with whether one is D/s or M/s. I am the lucky participant as the submissive partner to several dominant men. These relationships have lasted for years; they are not 'just' play, or 'just' sex, or 'just' bedroom. When I am in their presence, they own me and I submit fully for whatever length of time they choose to spend with me. It may be intermittent, but is no less serious than if we lived together. None of us want more, nor do we want less, of what we have together. We are content, and when we part we are both smiling. Our 'transition', I believe, has been that we have learned a great deal about each other over the years and have developed strong and trusting relationships.

MasterSlaveLA -> RE: transition from sub to slave (2/11/2010 9:25:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: masterlink65 ...i made no intentional remarks of sub being part time and slave being fulltime. Ummm... yes actually... you did! Again, your own words: quote: ORIGINAL: masterlink65 ...a "wow what difference" with meeting with a potential master for potential collar, as compared to meeting with a dom for play or part time scenes? ...i had a potential slave visit from NM and he has mentioned his entire outlook on being used by a dom as compared to wanting to be owned by a master, has changed completely. he has no desire to play now without being owned now. Thus, from your own words: Dom = play/part-time/used Master = collar/owned Now, you may have MEANT something different, but that's NOT what you wrote.

osf -> RE: transition from sub to slave (2/11/2010 9:32:33 PM)
i'm tired of the subs v the slaves crap all i want to know is how obedient she is

Phoenixpower -> RE: transition from sub to slave (2/12/2010 1:44:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sweetsub1957 ~FR~ I don't know if I'm answering the question directly or not, but when I was with Sir, I started out as submissive & by the end, I would have done anything, anything at all, for Him, as I loved and trusted Him that much. I don't know if that's a transition from sub to slave, or if that's even what you wanted to know, but that's my [sm=2cents.gif] . When I realized I had made that jump, it was kind of wow, and it was a good feeling.... [:)] I completely agree with you word by word and also agree to some of the lines LillyoftheVally said...I can do the transition from sub to slave rather easily though over the time the slave part of my personality appears to me to become stronger. However, in regards to the words from sweetsub1957, your words are exactly how I felt and still feel at times for my involvement with C-Dom (casual Dom). He was the one who introduced me into bdsm in general and he was damn good in doing so...he took 3 steps at a time (so he pushed me reasonable well but not too much) and when our involvement stopped as he was caught out from his wife at that time I missed him big time and would have done anything -if it would have been possible- to serve him and to please him...it was hard at times...but despite that fact it somehow clicked between him and me on a level I never ever felt before with a guy nor with others afterwards...he for whatever reasons had a special connection to me. When I met him last time (after over 3 years no contact) I had the impression that he wanted to date me and the only reason why I did not jump into it is the plain fact that I don't want to stay in the UK. Currently he asked me to set up a date to meet again, I gave him the date but afterwards his email was taken off again...which I think happened as he knows that I am going to meet someone again oversea and so he probably changed his mind to try to get deeper involved with each other. As some people on here know from cmails...I was very scared during the last involvement that he might ask me for a proper relationship as I was scared to end up staying over here for him...as I doubt that I could decline it if he would ask...as I do like him big time...and that was a very weird feeling to know I can't wait to leave the UK...but now due to him being single again and the questions he kept asking me, feeling the risk that he might try to get more involved with me. On top of that during the last meeting with him I experienced the first time ever subspace...and was just overwhelmed from that experience... not overwhelmed because of the experience itself, but because of experiencing it with him. He is one of those guys, if you meet him in the street he looks like the most innocent typical businessman...behaving as a gentleman....behind the doors he is the cruelest bastard I know. Someone from this board who has seen the pics after I was done thinks he went too far...so gosh, he enjoys giving pain a hell of a lot...however, despite him being cruel I simply know that I am safe with him and that, as sweetsub1957 said as well, makes a huge impact...and in my opinion, when you know you are safe during those moments and have a special connection with that person...than I think you can be williing to go on a "deeper" level (not saying that slavery is deeper, but thats how I phrase it) to please him as you simply enjoy to experience what he is giving out knowing you are safe. (again, not saying that subs aren't safe...however with what he dishes out I can't say much of "no" anymore, which I think is one of the differences between the sub and the slave). If I would be willing to stay in the UK, than my current potential Master would have not had a chance to meet me...I certainly would have at first continued to see how it goes with him and me and originally his suggestion was to meet the next time "without kink" to meet just from person to person to get to know each other better on a personal level...however, as he simply knows I meet someone else I don't blame him for dropping it for now... Apart from dropping from sub to slave, also with that experience of subspace from him I also had such a "wow" factor...where all of a sudden I could relate much more to it why some people might enjoy receiving pain and started to wonder if I might be a "masochist in the making..." so I guess that "wow" factors in whatever part of the umbrella from bdsm (or whatever you want to name it) can change a lot. So for me I think if I can relate to the person to be the boss at home then I am into slave mode...whereas if I can still have rather easy my way...then my sub mode gets stronger again...so for me it depends how well he can master me. (sorry if that might not answer your question but thats all I can say to it...even when C-Dom and I are not together in RL...)

Missokyst -> RE: transition from sub to slave (2/12/2010 1:52:47 PM)
I don't know about her but for me the sub to slave thing means squat. I was sub to my dominant for years and if someone implies that because I was not a slave it was not as as great an impact on me they would be wrong. I am not slave material. And sub to me, is not "just for play or occasional use" quote: ORIGINAL: masterlink65 the question is what the question is. simple as that. and what is in between is the same as grayscale of what is in between black and white. maybe if the question was about the slave to sub transition this question may have applied to your situation more.

Missokyst -> RE: transition from sub to slave (2/12/2010 2:04:22 PM)
Well.. If the question is simply have any others felt that transition moment.. I would say YES. Good grief, it stands to reason if you are going to ask a question and only want to see if anyone else in the world has felt that, then there is going to be a yes out there. If you want to be black and white, yes or no, then maybe a poll would have been a better post? quote: ORIGINAL: masterlink65 read it again please, because it says as compared to part time play. it does not say,"part time is fake, fulltime is real" i never stated it that way. believe me, if i was intentionally intending to show my prejudice, i assure you, i would be clear. i admit i may have many bias points. i have noticed you, and a couple others like to take what i say, take it out of context, transpose it, and make it say what you want it to say. and by the way, the sub in NM has been looking for a master to serve fulltime in his area/region. after many tries. he decided to try elsewhere. this thread ties in somewhat with the relocation thread i started. i am NOT trying to belittle anyone or make anyone feel their situation may be of lesser value than mine. i have only said that three times or so in this thread. , just trying to gain info. i am asking for input from people who are in relationships, not people who are just looking for play, because obviously if you read into the question correctly it is about relationship feelings ans not play feelings. the other people who posted do not seem to have issue with the question being biased. ... sorry you do thank you for you opinion though.

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