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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/16/2010 8:35:35 PM   
Arpig


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quote:

simply a 15 minute ride to another hospital.
So instead of just giving the girl a pill, you take up the time of an ambulance & 2 EMTs just to ship her somewhere else, where they have to spend their time signing her in.....no wonder you guys spend so much on healthcare

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/16/2010 9:40:54 PM   
LafayetteLady


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Arpig

quote:

simply a 15 minute ride to another hospital.
So instead of just giving the girl a pill, you take up the time of an ambulance & 2 EMTs just to ship her somewhere else, where they have to spend their time signing her in.....no wonder you guys spend so much on healthcare


Very good point. Along with the fact that not only will the poor woman have been raped by some crazed psychopath, she will now be raped by a system charging her for TWO emergency room visits, TWO ambulance rides, TWO doctor's bills. What a great plan.

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/16/2010 10:19:52 PM   
FatDomDaddy


Posts: 3183
Joined: 1/31/2004
Status: offline 		Now we're defining "Real" Catholics?

Are they like "Real" Americans?



quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

yet another Fauxtrage.

Real Catholics understand where we do our jobs in spite of our religious convictions.

Things like working in the penal system, administering the death penalty.
Or serving in the military, in unjust wars that are condemned by Church teaching.

That sort of stuff.

When we go to Mass tomorrow, I doubt there will be any comments made about Martha Coakley.


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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/16/2010 10:27:35 PM   
popeye1250


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

yet another Fauxtrage


My vote for best coinage of the year (rolling 12 month span).


Music, I was wondering what a "Fauxtrage" is myself, anyone know?

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/16/2010 10:41:26 PM   
AnimusRex


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy
Now we're defining "Real" Catholics?
Are they like "Real" Americans?


Yes, Real Catholics, like Real Jews, Real Methodists, etc, are the people who DON'T go on the teevee and get all red in the face to shout spittle flecked diatribes at some phony ginned up controversy that has no real bearing on how to vote.
The Wm. Donahoues of the Aggrieved Victims Unit (Catholic Division) are just professional victims, looking for airtime.

Real Catholics- and everyone over the mental age of 12- understand that the government, schools, hospitals, and police departments all do things that are in conflict with Church teaching; and they use their own common sense and moral compasses to navigate the path.

By the way, I claim no credit for Fauxtrage- I got it from Rachel Maddow, who is far more articulate than I. She also coined Poutrage, which is similar.

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/16/2010 11:43:11 PM   
WyldHrt


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quote:

Im probably going to be the unpopular one here, but, oh well.

I don't think so, Tazzy

I really don't see what the big deal is. If I'm acrophobic, taking a job as a roofer would be stupid. If I'm vegan (morally opposed), taking a job packing meat would be equally stupid. Taking either job and expecting my boss to deal with the fact that I can't or won't actually do the job I'm being paid for is ridiculous. I don't recall a single thing in either the Constitution or the Bill of Rights regarding "Freedom of Employment".

On the medical front: If a doctor refuses to treat 50% of the population because of his religious beliefs, he has no business working in an ER or hospital, period. Same goes for nurses or any other staff. In a medical setting, it is so not about you (general) and your "rights", it is about getting the patient the appropriate care for their situation, as soon as possible. As an EMT, I met some less than lovely folks, and did some things I would rather not have, but it was never about me, and I did my job. If you want to work in medicine and still be free to "cherry pick" your cases, open a private practice or work in one.

If you can't or won't (for whatever reason) do the job, don't take it. Honestly, if I was a rape victim, and found myself expected to endure the expense and emotional trauma of being transferred from one hospital to another, because some employees' religious beliefs gave them the right to refuse treatment, I would be beyond livid. How the hell do you defend something like that?


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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 1:52:43 AM   
popeye1250


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Status: offline 		You know whats *really* odd? I haven't seen any of the Kennedy's comming out for Coakley!

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 3:30:20 AM   
angelikaJ


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quote:

ORIGINAL: popeye1250

You know whats *really* odd? I haven't seen any of the Kennedy's comming out for Coakley!



I am guessing that you aren't on any democratic mailing lists then.
Emails and phonecalls, rest assured the Kennnedy's are standing firm for Martha.



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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 4:35:39 AM   
eyesopened


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Im probably going to be the unpopular one here, but, oh well.

As a nurse, i dont recall a time where i allow my personal beliefs to undermine patient care.. ever. If a course of treatment is against a nurse's personal beliefs, then, sad to say, perhaps she/he needs to look for another field.

Being catholic, or any religion, is a personal choice. Its a personal moral value. Its not a morality we have the right to hold others too in a medical setting.


I don't see your view as being unpopular. 

When I first discovered I was pregnant with my first, my husband and I were not planning on having children and I was on birth control to prevent that.  I went to a ob/gyn to confirm my family doc's suspicion that my 'fatigue' was cause by a unplanned preganancy.  The ob/gyn confirmed I was 3 weeks pregnant and told me this, "You have a little time to decide whether or not you want this pregnancy to go to term.  If you decide you want to terminate the preganancy, I will not be your doctor but I will refer you to another doctor I have full confidence in." 

That was a man who balanced personal belief with best patient care.  I would like to think he is the norm not the exception.  He did not try to force his view on me, didn't make any judgemental statements, he didn't ask me about my opinion on abortion, he just held fast to his own belief.

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 5:45:17 AM   
sirsholly


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Status: offline 		Does Ms. Coakley also feel that an atheist working in the ER has no business treating a priest? Should a Johovahs Wittness never be permitted to administer a blood transfusion?

Perhaps this woman needs to remove her head from her ass long enough to realize most medical personnel are not the closed minded individuals she seems to feel we are. We have taken an oath to do our jobs to the best of our ability without judgment or hypocrisy.

< Message edited by sirsholly -- 1/17/2010 6:23:01 AM >

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 6:52:25 AM   
maybemaybenot


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Status: offline 		I'll just clarify a couple of things I said earlier:

Force: was not meant as physically inflicting yourself against someone's will. It was meant as forcing your will on some one else.

Take on female patients was meant as in a general practice. In the case of a dying woman and a Muslim MD < male > in the ER: I would hope another MD would take care of the patient, and to be honest, if an MD with that type of belief worked in the ER and was a real concientious objector he would not be triaged to that patient. At least that is how it would be or has been in my experience. But I have never come up against a dyiing woman and a Muslim MD, so I can't speak with any authority on what might happen.

Also, as far as a non religious hospital ER: If  one nurse won't do it, another certainly will. A Catholic Hospital does not have the emergency medication to give to the victim. So, any nurse who doesn't have a problem giving it, can't anyway.



Again I see instances where a nurse may, and I would back her, refuse care to a patient. here are a few more:

The " funny uncle" who played with the nurses daughter for years and destroyed the girls life forever, comes into the ER or is a patient on her floor.
The man who put a bullet hole in the nurses' brothers back and now brother is quadripeligic.
The nurses ex who has been stalking her and threatening her life..
You can apply the same scenario's to a male nurse.

I'll leave it at that, because I don't think we will agree on this.

snip from LafayetteLady:
Could it be because the issue isn't necessarily about religion but more about abortion?

Not in the case, Coakley's opponent is pro choice. He does not support partial birth abortions, however.

Someone asked where the Kennedy family was: Ted's widow, Vikki, was out campagning with Coakley yesterday and has done endoresements for Coakley. I am sure she will be at the big Obama rally today, as well as other members of the Kennedy family.

                       mbmbn

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 6:58:50 AM   
maybemaybenot


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Status: offline 		SirsHolly:
Well said ! I cannot imagine the scenario where a rape victim comes to a hospital that provides, and she requests, emergency contraceptions, being turned down. Between the ER nurses and the floor nurses, who could be called to administer the pill, or the ER MD him/herself that patient is going to get the care she desires. It is the administration of the pill that is in question, nothing else. Coakley's comments were insulting to nurses and medical professionals, a distortion of the bill and simple scare tactics.

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 7:52:36 AM   
Musicmystery


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quote:

Music, I was wondering what a "Fauxtrage" is myself, anyone know?


A false, feigned outrage against something for political theater, to try to score political points--a faux-outrage.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
By the way, I claim no credit for Fauxtrage- I got it from Rachel Maddow, who is far more articulate than I. She also coined Poutrage.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 1/17/2010 7:53:50 AM >

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 8:25:49 AM   
Sanity


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Nah, Faux outrage is a lot like Bush Derangement Syndrome. FOX News is so popular that it drives Liberals completely insane with rage and anger. Liberals used to have a monopoly on their biased media outlets and now that the conservative view is making it out to the mainstream on a daily basis Liberals and Socialists are finding themselves in the embarrassing position of having to defend their indefensible ideas and positions - such as Faux Global Warming.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

quote:

Music, I was wondering what a "Fauxtrage" is myself, anyone know?


A false, feigned outrage against something for political theater, to try to score political points--a faux-outrage.


quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
By the way, I claim no credit for Fauxtrage- I got it from Rachel Maddow, who is far more articulate than I. She also coined Poutrage.










< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/17/2010 8:27:34 AM >

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 8:34:08 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Sort of like when Fox reported how Cuba was the only nation who was not providing help to the Haitian earthquake.... AFTER Cuba sent in hundreds of Drs and were one of the first responders on the scene?

nothing Faux about that

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 8:49:24 AM   
Sanity


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Nothing Faux about Liberals posting sentrys on FOX News, recording it 24/7 and  focusing intently every word and sentence, searching for a mistake, ANY mistake, then howling like wounded baboons from ever rooftop...  once they think they've found something?   

Failing that, blatantly making shit up...

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Sort of like when Fox reported how Cuba was the only nation who was not providing help to the Haitian earthquake.... AFTER Cuba sent in hundreds of Drs and were one of the first responders on the scene?

nothing Faux about that


< Message edited by Sanity -- 1/17/2010 9:00:00 AM >

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 8:55:49 AM   
maybemaybenot


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Status: offline 		The controversy stems from a 2005 Massachusetts law which requires hospitals to make emergency contraceptives available to rape victims. During debate on the law, state senator Brown offered an amendment that would have exempted medical professionals with "sincerely held religious beliefs," particularly at a number of Catholic hospitals in Massachusetts, from the law's requirement to provide emergency contraception. If no one at a given hospital could provide the contraception, Brown's amendment required that hospital to transfer the rape victim to another facility where she could receive emergency contraception, at no cost to the victim. Brown's ammendment failed, but he voted in favor of the final bill. 


Not only did Brown vote in favor of the final emergency contraception bill, his campaign says he also made it very clear during the debate that he supported emergency contraception for rape victims. To bolster his case, the Brown campaign provided the Washington Examiner a copy of Brown's talking points from June 2005, from which he made his remarks to the Senate. "First and foremost, I fully support this legislation and recognize the importance of access to EC [emergency contraception] for rape victims," reads the first talking point.

.
Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/blogs/beltway-confidential/Massachusetts-Coakley-ad-patently-false-Brown-threatens-legal-action-81908347.html#ixzz0ctCpUWHp

                    mbmbn

< Message edited by maybemaybenot -- 1/17/2010 8:57:43 AM >

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 8:58:46 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		LOL.. sentries? you act like their every word is not televised. EVERY WORD is. Own up to what you say... thats the moto they should stand by... the same one we should all stand by.

Fox said it... maybe the idea of preventing stupid comments in the news by making the news agencies themselves responsible for being too lazy to at least fact check before opening their mouths may not be such a bad idea. And thats not aimed at just Fox, its aimed at them all.

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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 9:01:45 AM   
Sanity


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"Fox" didn't say anything, it never does. A PERSON on Fox may have said it, and people make mistakes.

Its only a big deal because Faux Derangement Syndrome makes it a big deal.

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

LOL.. sentries? you act like their every word is not televised. EVERY WORD is. Own up to what you say... thats the moto they should stand by... the same one we should all stand by.

Fox said it... maybe the idea of preventing stupid comments in the news by making the news agencies themselves responsible for being too lazy to at least fact check before opening their mouths may not be such a bad idea. And thats not aimed at just Fox, its aimed at them all.


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RE: Martha Coakley: Devout Catholics 'Probably shouldn'... - 1/17/2010 9:04:04 AM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		Double Standard there Sanity. You, among many, often complain about what Obama has done.. for example the panty bomber... yet He did not allow that event to happen, he trusted those he put in charge to deal with like situations, and they failed. YET Obama took the heat, and you demanded HE was wrong.

Same with Fox. They hired these people. They trust them to be on air, unmonitored... guess what? Fox takes the responsibility for what they say.

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