RE: So now what?

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Musicmystery -> RE: So now what? (1/22/2010 4:12:45 PM)
Which brings us back to.... quote: ORIGINAL: Musicmystery Despite the good face Democrats are putting on it now, health care reform is all but dead. Back to the status quo. Trouble is...the status quo is spiraling health care costs, more companies dropping coverage, more people dropped from their coverage when its needed most, more inability to get coverage with some conditions...all while medicaid/medicare is rapidly approaching a far worse crisis than social security, with no political will to fix either. Massachusetts has universal care, but with states strapped for cash themselves, their likely to remain alone in that distinction. Meanwhile, we continue on with a structural deficit exacerbated by a decade with revenue cuts, two elective wars (one to chase Osama bin Laden unsuccessfully in Afghanistan, the other to find weapons of mass destruction that didn't exist in Iraq) that will continue draining the treasury for at least a decade, while we only begin a tentative climb out of recession. I knew Obama's progressive agenda was over when the credit crisis hit before he even took office. And while I give him B- marks for muddling through, it's nothing approaching strong leadership, and his term in office will now be much more about Haiti (where he did step up quickly) than health care. Democrats, realizing the president has no coattails, will keep their heads down too. Republicans have no interest in solving any of this either. Their entire focus was to kill health care and now to take back power. They'll likely gain seats in November, perhaps even several. And it will change nothing but who snips at whom. People talk of alternative parties--but it's all talk. No one has any serious new approaches or solutions going forward, just a feeling to throw the bums out, and then start again with different names in the same old story. We can't afford this. We're ignoring solvable problems--painful to solve, granted, but solvable. They are only going to balloon rapidly while we continue to pretend they don't exist. Our own inaction, not terrorism, is what will bring us down. So the bill is dead. Now what?

subtee -> RE: So now what? (1/22/2010 4:18:07 PM)
Do you think that it would be meaningful for Dems to reject the health care "reform" as it stands? What if they voted it down and articulated, cohesively, that this is not what they intended, nor what they promised and therefore they will not vote for it? [Assuming they could accomplish such a thing?]

luckydawg -> RE: So now what? (1/22/2010 4:23:24 PM)
yes it would be meaningfull. It would show thier utter incompetency and inability to write a bill they support while holding a supermajority.

subtee -> RE: So now what? (1/22/2010 4:29:14 PM)
I disagree. I think voting along to get along with "statesmen" who have shown their only interest is not in thoughtful contemplation of the greater good, but instead in saying "no" to mindlessly tow the party line is much more damaging, long term. That the bill will be ineffectual is guaranteed. What do they have to lose?

Musicmystery -> RE: So now what? (1/22/2010 7:40:02 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: subtee Do you think that it would be meaningful for Dems to reject the health care "reform" as it stands? What if they voted it down and articulated, cohesively, that this is not what they intended, nor what they promised and therefore they will not vote for it? [Assuming they could accomplish such a thing?] Well, first, both houses have already voted for it, in different packages, so I'm not sure what you're getting at there. What they've promised is different people promising different things to different constituents. "I'll only vote for reform that contains a public option" and "I'll never vote for a package that includes pubic option" is gonna be a sticking point, period. Add to that a few opportunistic representatives, then fucking Joe Lieberman whose balls I will sever personally if I ever come across him in a dark alley, grabbing his perceived chance to get even by opposing something he's long supported. Then, to do this correctly, we should decidedly be looking at a single payer system. That, though, is just gonna draw the same old "socialist" charge, and, President Obama promised "You can keep your current health insurance," which immediately takes single payer off the table. Even the health care committee head said earlier that its time for a cooling off for four-six weeks. Dead. It's dead. Marley was more alive. So was the doorknob.

rulemylife -> RE: So now what? (1/23/2010 12:48:52 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Jeff, any revolution we get in this country will not be one the left (or people who hold some of the values they like to proclaim they have) would be very happy with the outcome of. It's really interesting how some conservatives are making veiled threats at revolution because they don't have their party in power while they were calling the slightest criticism of Bush or his policies, especially in Iraq, un-American and even treasonous.

rulemylife -> RE: So now what? (1/23/2010 1:21:11 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Sanity They'll obviously just print or borrow more, rather than lower their own standards. Democrats propose $1.9T increase in debt limit Bush Administration adds $4 trillion to National Debt With no fanfare and little notice, the national debt has grown by more than $4 trillion during George W. Bush’s presidency. It’s the biggest increase under any president in U.S history. On the day President Bush took office, the national debt stood at $5.727 trillion. The latest number from the Treasury Department shows the national debt now stands at more than $9.849 trillion. That’s a 71.9 percent increase on Mr. Bush’s watch. The bailout plan now pending in Congress could add hundreds of billions of dollars to the national debt – though President Bush said this morning he expects that over time, “much if not all” of the bailout money “will be paid back.” But the government is taking no chances. Buried deep in the hundred pages of bailout legislation is a provision that would raise the statutory ceiling on the national debt to $11.315 trillion. It’ll be the 7th time the debt limit has been raised during this administration. In fact it was just two months ago, on July 30, that President Bush signed the Housing and Economic Recovery Act, which contained a provision raising the debt ceiling to $10.615 trillion.

rulemylife -> RE: So now what? (1/23/2010 1:33:41 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DomImus It just occurred to me this morning on my way home that I haven't seen an Obama bumper sticker on a car in months. There were quite a lot of folks sporting them about a year ago. Surely some folks bought new cars during the Cash for Clunkers scam but I can't remember the last time I saw an Obama bumper sticker and I drive the same roads with seemingly many of the same locals. I still see Bush/Cheney and W bumper stickers and some McCain/Palin ones. I don't know, maybe it's just that most Democrats are intelligent enough to know how to remove a bumper sticker after the campaign is over. [sm=ofcourse.gif]

rulemylife -> RE: So now what? (1/23/2010 1:42:05 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Thadius I remember the messages I received during the last election cycle, about how I was wasting my vote by not voting for a D or an R. It seems the pendulum is finally swinging and folks are realizing that both parties represent the exact same thing, gaining more power and influence (not to mention money) for their financial backers and themselves; we the people be damned. I seem to recall you as a pretty strong McCain supporter.

TheHeretic -> RE: So now what? (1/23/2010 7:42:50 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rulemylife quote: ORIGINAL: TheHeretic Jeff, any revolution we get in this country will not be one the left (or people who hold some of the values they like to proclaim they have) would be very happy with the outcome of. It's really interesting how some conservatives are making veiled threats at revolution because they don't have their party in power while they were calling the slightest criticism of Bush or his policies, especially in Iraq, un-American and even treasonous. This conservative isn't making "veiled threats," RML. I'm just saying, as I have said before, that if a revolution were to to occur, as suggested by the post I was replying to, it wouldn't be the one the radical socialists wish for. I have no desire to see such a thing happen.

Musicmystery -> RE: So now what? (1/23/2010 7:57:25 AM)
If a revolution were to occur, it would be over before the looneys realized. Our military is just that good. Most citizens have never seen it in action, let alone at home on well-known territory. It's a silly fantasy. Always has been. And a military coup in such a period of unrest would be inevitable. Yes, this is where someone goes on about his military acumen and all he needs is blah blah blah. He should know better. He'll wake up and the military will be in control. End of revolution, before it started. Now, back to reality. Americans talk. They don't have the balls for a revolution. They bitch for a while, then get used to it, whatever it is at the moment, over and over and over.

TheHeretic -> RE: So now what? (1/23/2010 8:00:03 AM)
Bingo.

Jeffff -> RE: So now what? (1/23/2010 8:00:13 AM)
My response about the revolution was tongue in cheek. I don't care how many AK-47's are out there in private hands, it would be crushed. Jeff

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