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Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 1:34:15 AM

RiotGirl

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Just watched a fascinating movie "about" the Marquis. Didnt catch the first half of it which is a major shame. Got to be there for interesting parts though Curious as to what others think of him. Of his novels? Anyone read any? Anyone consider him the forefounder? Though wittwd was not "new" coming from him, he did (imo) play a major part in making it better know. (imo) i consider him one of the forefounders. What are others opionons? Thoughts? Any good links as i start to dive in to my google search? Anyone have any links to his novels (published on the web)? Is it true all his novels were burned by his son? So if they were burned... the ones that are out there "now" how close to the truth are they?

Some lovely quotes i am running across....

(Mme. de Montreuil, whom he remembered in his writings) "Oh, powers from Hell, grant me Nero's wish, that all women have but one head and that this head belong to the shrew who tyrannizes me; then grant me the pleasure of chopping it off!" IMO i think thats abit funny

"if you enjoy wickedness, it shows that Nature intended you to be wicked, and it would be wicked not to be."

"Lycurgus, Numa, Moses, Jesus Christ, Mohammed, all these great rogues, all these great thought-tyrants, knew how to associate the divinities they fabricated with their own boundless ambition." ooo contreversial

One is never so dangerous when one has no shame, than when one has grown too old to blush.

"Sex" is as important as eating or drinking and we ought to allow the one appetite to be satisfied with as little restraint or false modesty as the other.

The horror of wedlock, the most appalling, the most loathsome of all the bonds humankind has devised for its own discomfort and degradation. Now thats funny

To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell. And this is even funnier. Heh

Thoughts?

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/24/2006 1:35:39 AM >

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 1:44:54 AM

RiotGirl

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And i found this on collarme

http://www.collarchat.com/m_163143/mpage_1/key_Marquis%252CSade/tm.htm#163143

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/24/2006 1:45:49 AM >

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 2:18:03 AM

RiotGirl

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Gilles de Rais

http://www.shanmonster.com/witch/witches/gilles.html

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 2:23:31 AM

SimplyV

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

To judge from the notions expounded by theologians, one must conclude that God created most men simply with a view to crowding hell.

That has to be the funniest thing I've heard all week. I think I need it on a t-shirt.

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 2:48:18 AM

RiotGirl

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Arg i want the books. i can find them to buy them, but if i buy them now i cant read them now. Oh and the book The Trial of Gilles de Rais. Ya know, he was a lunatic

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 2:51:39 AM

slavejali

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“I've already told you: the only way to a woman's heart is along the path of torment. I know none other as sure.”

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 2:56:26 AM

meatcleaver

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De Sade changes from what ever angle you look at him, though his legacy isn't so much sado-masochism, as his behaviour was pretty much the norm in his circles, it was his refusal to hide his behaviour.

As for his views on marriage, well it was his mother in law that had him locked up for so many years so it's not surprising he had a pretty bad view of marriage and in-laws.

Viewed as a libertarian philosopher is how he is most interesting, though his real ambition was to be a mainstream playwrite and wrote several mainstream plays, none rose above the mediocre.

Most of his rants come from his time in prison when he had violent mood swings from righteous indignation at his mother in law to regret at his outbursts to sending her fawning letters in hope of release. He was not a resolute sadist as he is often portreyed but a fallible and often weak figure.

His books which can be little more than a list of degradation are not meant to be erotic but an illustration of how cruel people can be.

Justine is well worth a read.
500 Days reads like a telephone directory of depravity and really only worth the effort for the experience and for knowing what you are talking about when the subject of De Sade arises.

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 3:08:25 AM

RiotGirl

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Thanks guys. Interesting add you had there meat. i've got "Justine" and when i'm not wide eye from lack of sleep i'll read it. Agreed, he doesnt sound like a "remarkable" sadist. Though you know who does? Gilles de Rais. Been reading his stuff. Stark raving lunatic who from what i read was excited by fear and death. Who wouldnt sell his soul to the devil to get some gold but metophrically speaking sold his soul to the devil for his pleasure. He of course thinking the outpour of his sexual pleasure was far better then selling his soul. Stark raving mad for sure. But then again, he repented so by his catholic faith he entered heaven. blame the catholics! (ha ha ha ha ha.. i'm so seriously joking!)

edited to note - maybe he wasnt such a luntic as i thought. By not "selling" his soul, by his standards of faith and religion he could do as he pleased and STILL enter heaven. The only way it wouldnt be possible.. would of course be by selling his soul.

i wonder what the Marquis would say about Rais

< Message edited by RiotGirl -- 3/24/2006 3:10:47 AM >

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 4:39:02 AM

DragonNphoenix

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I love DeSade!!! I own a book of his short stories and Juliet. Yes, do a degree I think that he was the founder, of sorts, of modern BDSM. He brought it out, made it public. Of Course, in some cases, he was paid for his services. He proved ones ability to orgasim from pain.

Was the movie that you were watching Quils? If not... do watch it. It is wonderful.

1st Girl Phoenix

< Message edited by DragonNphoenix -- 3/24/2006 4:40:05 AM >

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 6:47:56 AM

FangsNfeet

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I'm willing to bet that you watched "Quills" It should be fairly easy to rent at you local video store. If not, it's even easier to buy it on the net.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00003CXPV/102-4518104-0608141?v=glance&n=130

The books by and about him are also easily obtainable by simple web searches.

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 9:41:41 AM

RiotGirl

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i've no clue the movie it was on HBO or one of those channels. Fangs i know i can buy the books, but i was more interested in living up to my generations need for instant gratification.

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 11:31:07 AM

FangsNfeet

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quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i've no clue the movie it was on HBO or one of those channels.

It was Quills. I garuntee it.

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 2:29:26 PM

Slipstreme

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www.supervert.com has a listing where you can download a lot of Marquis de Sade's works for free.

I recently read 120 Days of Sodom, which I found myself enjoying and laughing at. It was a very entertaining read, although the colloquialisms of the time are a tad strange. It goes from simple anal sex, to bodily fluids, to S&M, torture and bloody death. However, there is a lot in his works that someone who loses sight of the fact it is fiction will offend.

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/24/2006 10:33:31 PM

Vancouver_cinful

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DragonNphoenix

Yes, do a degree I think that he was the founder, of sorts, of modern BDSM. He brought it out, made it public. 1st Girl Phoenix

Actually, De Sade was not a supporter of consensuality, and our modern concepts of safe, sane, and consensual would not appeal to him. His experiences with "sadism" were experiments in torture and pain on unwilling women.

His main known crime was that he supposedly hired a few servant girls and then proceeded to hold them hostage, inflict pain upon them, and force them to have sex. (He had a few male accomplices with him on this.) These girls were not willing partners. I may be wrong but I believe one died.

He was mainly put away, however, for being an embarrasment to the upper class, and a writer of books that even today would be considered controversial, and tasteless.

Interesting man. But, maybe not the best example for those into BDSM to look up to? LOL

Cin

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/25/2006 1:34:38 AM

Slipstreme

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Actually there are a couple controversial theories about who Marquis de Sade really was and how sadistic he was cracked up to be. In fact, he may also had a thing for being beaten, thus in reality was a sadomasochist. One thing for sure was that he was a nympho, open towards recieving anal sex, and he did kill someone through poisoning with Spanish Fly (an aphrodisiac that if used in wrong doses, does kill). There is a bit of controversy about what he did that was or wasn't consentual.

Nonconsentuality is definately within the realm of fantasy however, and alas, far too often people are judged by the things they look at, the things they draw and the things they write. I'm not saying this view of Sade is the right one, as it is hard to know who someone was, who is currently dead.

On the flip side, neither is Leopold von Shaucer-Masoch a good masochist to look up to, as he was manipulative towards his wife, who was vanilla and went through a lot of mental stress over it, to get the cruel Mistress in furs he so sought. (I know I spelt the last name wrong, so sue me.)

Either way I do think meeting the people for who the terms sadism and masochism are coined would be an interesting experience to say the least.

I do want to point out, at that time in history the values of society as a whole were different, especially in regards to women, who were for all intents and purposes, the property of men. Therefore, it was possible for a man to do whatever he wished to the woman he was with for the most part, unless her family stepped in to save her.

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For information about "the furry thing" please check out my profile journal entry for: 1/17/2006

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/25/2006 3:04:56 AM

meatcleaver

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Vancouver_cinful

His main known crime was that he supposedly hired a few servant girls and then proceeded to hold them hostage, inflict pain upon them, and force them to have sex. (He had a few male accomplices with him on this.) These girls were not willing partners. I may be wrong but I believe one died.

He was mainly put away, however, for being an embarrasment to the upper class, and a writer of books that even today would be considered controversial, and tasteless.

From what I have read he did enjoy putting the fear of god into servant girls and used to enjoy fucking them while his man servant fucked him. He gave and took and was more of a sadomasochist than a sadist.

As for embarrassing the upper class, that appears to have been his point. He saw the upperclass as hypocritical and decadent and knew nothing about justice. De Sade was a magistrate (I think that was the correct title) for a time and his judgements were way ahead of his time and would be considered making the same judgements today as somewhat liberal.

His real legacy is his libertarianism, his disgust at hypocracy and his unflinching refusal to put an acceptable veneer over human behaviour. He would probably see the idea of SSC as petty game playing and manipulation and would probably condemn it as hypocritical as he would probably argue people will be malicious under the guise of SSC.

OK That is just my take on what I have read about him.

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/25/2006 4:49:21 AM

ScooterTrash

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I agree you have to look at some of his writings with the understanding that he was somewhat derranged (ya think), but there is wisdom in many of his quotes.

"Are not laws dangerous which inhibit the passions? Compare the centuries of anarchy with those of the strongest legalism in any country you like and you will see that it is only when the laws are silent that the greatest actions appear." Marquis de Sade

I collect quotes from two people in history, Marquis de Sade and Albert Einstein...guess I like to cover both ends...lol.

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/25/2006 6:01:40 AM

LaMalinche

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Riot, try www.gutenberg.org for de Sade's work. . . and check out Sacher-Masoch as well, "Venus in Furs" is a classic. Project Gutenberg is a free online book source.

Have fun and enjoy.

Best,

LaMalinche

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/25/2006 6:19:20 AM

PenelopePitstop

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quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i've no clue the movie it was on HBO or one of those channels.

It was Quills. I garuntee it.

Not Waxwork? hahahahahah

I have a soft spot for Waxwork.

< Message edited by PenelopePitstop -- 3/25/2006 6:20:05 AM >

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RE: Marquis de Sade - 3/25/2006 6:33:55 AM

LaMalinche

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PenelopePitstop

quote:

ORIGINAL: FangsNfeet

quote:

ORIGINAL: RiotGirl

i've no clue the movie it was on HBO or one of those channels.

It was Quills. I garuntee it.

Not Waxwork? hahahahahah

I have a soft spot for Waxwork.

I liked Marat/Sade personally.

Best,

LaMalinche

< Message edited by LaMalinche -- 3/25/2006 6:34:37 AM >

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