RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (Full Version)

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Level -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 2:27:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: knees2you

quote:

"Remeber we are not saved by Faith alone!"

But you are supposed to be saved by faith alone.
"Do not listen to Philosopy (reason).. Colosians 2.8


Colossians (~~~~~~~ is spelled this way, by the way.

Chapter2 verse 8 Says and I "quote"

quote:

"See to it that know one takes you captive through
hollow and deceptive philosophy,
which depends on human tradition and the basic principles
of this world rather then on Christ." End Quote

quote:


"Yes God Said It!"


Sincerely, Ant[;)]


And it's "no", not "know" lol.



RubberWitch -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 3:02:59 AM)

To the OP, we don't rush to heaven for two reasons
agnostic: We will never be truly free of any doubt that there IS an afterlife, and therefore, cling to the known world.
sensualist: OK, heaven may be fantastic, but have you experienced everything this realm has to offer? Heaven may be full of the most wonderful delights, but if they don't have turkish delight, Ketner's island burgers, blue mountain high roast, endorphins or rollercoasters (and can you imagine a rollercoaster in heaven?), then you would spend all eternity feeling slightly gypped, had you downed a bottle of bleach, rather than lived a full and sensually varied life.

other points raised so far.
THIS is the realm of Satan, and death is to be our freedom from it,
HELL will be rent assunder come the apocalypse, so you're only on a short stay in hell comparitavely
PURGATORY is where we end up for the majority of our 'crimes', including suicide

]V[



RiotGirl -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 3:29:27 AM)

quote:

"If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?"


There's a million reasons.  But your question isnt new, its actually age old and tons of ppl would love to know the answer.  Same ol same ol "whats the point" question. 

Right Michael.  Whats the point of life?  Whats the point of struggling?  Whats the point of suffering?  What the heck is the point of anything really?  Screw heaven - turning to dust and being eaten by worms is a much simpler, less filled with troubles alternative then life. 

Your question is one i have been trying to figure out for ages.  i hear alot that suicide is for quitters, suicide is for the weak.  My thoughts are "Life is for the dumb"  because life IS dumb.  Think about it.  Its always something.  Some struggle, some crap to deal with.  A few highs for an infinite number of lows.  Its retarded.  So what - its Logical to suffer to be happy for just alittle while?  i've more of an indepth thought on it all as i've thought it many times, but i'm too damn tired to take the time to write it.  Point being,  Living isnt for the intelligent as logically its really quite stupid.  For example.  Would you go to a resturant that more often then not served bad food and had poor service?  Not likely.  Most likely after bad service and bad food jsut ONCE you wouldnt be back.  Yet with life.. we keep coming back.  Plainly retarded.

So whats the point?  Why suffer?  Suppose its just the lot in life you got.  [:D]  i atleast finally found MY reason.  God granted me a gift and i got a little short person.  There's my reason right there and God knows that with out that gift i'd of not stopped my efforts until i found dust or heaven. 

Create your own point.  Your own reason.  Its the best you can do as no one has yet to figure it out.  Why the hell are we here?  Why is mankind here?  Really.  You know i have a friend who went and got all spiritual on me who i'm now trying to learn something from.  He says the point is to "find your special gift and give it away to others"  Or to share it.  Basically its finding what you have to offer and well offering it.  Sounded good when he said it.  Made alot of sense actually. 

That said, nothing makes sense at the moment as its been a really long night and it hasnt even ended yet.  (couldnt not stop by c.com before bed, heh).  So i doubt i even make sense. 



ScooterTrash -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 5:17:58 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RubberWitch

To the OP, we don't rush to heaven for two reasons
agnostic: We will never be truly free of any doubt that there IS an afterlife, and therefore, cling to the known world.

This is probably the most accurate statement I have read so far, perhaps in general, not necessarily for any particular faith or lack there of. And for those completely convinced that there IS such a place, they are equally convinced it is wrong to get there by their own hand.
 
Since nothing is conclusive, the thought has to be there; What if we are simply a "unit" and when broken, we cease to exist? Besides, doesn't matter to me either way, I'll hang in there for the struggle, I like a challenge..lol.



michaelGA -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 5:22:09 AM)

quote:

God granted me a gift and i got a little short person. There's my reason right there and God knows that with out that gift i'd of not stopped my efforts until i found dust or heaven.


see, now this is just a little sadistic. don't you think? i mean, with all the crap going on in this world and the pending death at the end of the "ride"...why bring more people into this world? why subject someone else to all this crap when it's meaninless? this is just...wrong, isn't it?



slavejali -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 5:32:41 AM)

I like Belinda Carlisles take on it:
They say in heaven love comes first
We'll make heaven a place on earth
Ooh heaven is a place on earth



MHOO314 -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 5:41:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

this got me to thinking (not in the way most people would have)

so here i am, posting my question to everyone out there to see what answers might pop up

"If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?"

(this should be interesting)


Bravo michael for an awesome post! you have opened up so much here--now as to your question--hmmm IMHO, that place like hell does not exist--the "fear" of it was created as a means to manage the poor folk and get them marching in a political line--(move back, the approaching flames may singe you)--your question is a valid one and the responses wil be pretty cliched--it is hard to argue that one MUST continue to live when all the odds are against them--we--man make laws--laws that deem suicide illegal--like we have the right to judge another's level of pain and suffering--subjectivity ( My mantra of the week if you notice <smiles>--)--personally? I believe in the munifisence of the universe, earth, the sun and planets hold the ultimate power---after all no one can make Me believe a forgiving "god" chooses to destroy millions of people like Katrina or even 911---a proud parent supports their children despite their weaknesses, they do not set out to destroy them-- ( have your flame suit on?)--I will return to the matter from which I was created--what makes Me sad? That I won't be able to experience the simple things---I think, but then we don't really know--do we? For after all heaven is based on faith and faith is after all--subjective. Now the question will arise--and My response is--what guides Me is the ability to decide in  My own heart what is right and wrong, good and bad, My love for family, the earth and humanity is what guides My behavior, nothing more, nothing less.
 
Heaven IMHO is freedom from pain, suffering, sadness--but as far as I know is it also the loss of the ability to feel, to love, to laugh, to experience and IMHO, that is hell--but I don't know that--nor do any of us--IMHO



BanginPapa -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 7:41:09 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

the other day, i was walking around the shopping center where my gf and i work, minding my own business and doing some window shopping when some strange woman pulled up next  to me and asked me if i was SAVED. i told her "no, and i' not interested either"

she went on and on with the usual religious rhetoric, trying to convert me.

this got me to thinking (not in the way most people would have)

so here i am, posting my question to everyone out there to see what answers might pop up

"If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?"

(this should be interesting)


What's the hurry, son ?



michaelGA -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 9:44:42 AM)

way wait, if there "IS" a heaven . this world is falling apart...like the old adage goes:

"Stop the world...i wanna get off"



NakedOnMyChain -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 9:58:11 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

see, now this is just a little sadistic. don't you think? i mean, with all the crap going on in this world and the pending death at the end of the "ride"...why bring more people into this world? why subject someone else to all this crap when it's meaninless? this is just...wrong, isn't it?


That's just it.  It's not meaningless.  Even if you believe in nonexistence after death, can you honestly tell me that nothing in this life has meant anything to you?  There were no moments of joy that made some of the suffering and the work worth it?  No fleeting bit of love that made the anger calm?  Perhaps for some there isn't, but for most I believe there are at least a few little things that make life meaningful, with or without religion.

As for me, I don't believe in heaven and hell.  I believe in the Summerlands.  The Summerlands (an ancient Celtic notion) are a place of waiting, traditionally for a year and a day (I believe it's however long you need to plan and process), before reincarnation.  I believe we live multiple lives with the end goal being enlightenment.  I also believe that no matter what religious path you choose, there is truth in it for the follower, and will therefore take you one step higher towards enlightenment.  Yes, you can even learn from harm and hate (though you needn't practice it), and learning is what enlightenment is all about.

I'm choosing to bring my first child into this world in August, little John Aiden.  I firmly believe in the meaning of life (no Monty Python reference intended), and I intend to do the best job I possibly can in raising my son to find it, too, regardless of what religion or nonreligion he ultimately chooses.  You have to take the pain with the pleasure.  Just because there is suffering on Earth does not mean that life is not worth living.



michaelGA -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 10:02:36 AM)

it's pointless when, in the end...we all are gonna die anyway...so, again, i ask...why wait?



Saint -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 10:03:40 AM)

Who said that there is a heaven? Mankind did. Who said there is a hell, again Mankind did. It all boils down to mankinds interpretation of the unknown. And its exactly that, that keeps people alive. The unknown. What greater fear can there be than the unknown? We can interpret it, dissemate it, whichever, but ultimately it all falls upon personal interpration of what we dont know.

Personally, Im of several thoughts on this subject. One is that we are all composed of energy in one form or another, and that energy is infinite. Energy may change or transmute into another form, but it never truly gets extinguished. So I would like to believe that some part of us does go on when the energy composing our physical bodies changes and we 'die'. And that secondly, we create our own heaven and hell. When I say that, I mean to say that every experience we have in life, gets recorded in our subconcious somewhere, somehow and that when our physical bodies die, our own subconcious judges the actions of our entire concious life and determines just exactly what we deserve to have offered to us. Beyond that, who can truly say?

Now, Im not a theologian or anything of the sort. These are just my personal thoughts on the matter. I cant answer your question any better than this and some may argue that I havent answered it at all... Personal interpretation, remember? :)




Gauge -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 10:49:27 AM)

quote:

it's pointless when, in the end...we all are gonna die anyway...so, again, i ask...why wait?


Something is very disturbing to me about your insistence of not waiting. I am not implying that you are suicidal, but this can be an indication of those thoughts. If, in fact, you are thinking that way, please get some professional type of help.

I mean no insult to you but I have heard people talk like this before and I get very concerned.



NakedOnMyChain -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 11:12:46 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

it's pointless when, in the end...we all are gonna die anyway...so, again, i ask...why wait?


I think it's more a matter of attitude.  To many who don't believe in an afterlife, life is a wonderful place to be.  I say enjoy what you have, while you have it.  Why such a rush?  Can you find nothing in this life that is worth sticking around for?  This life is what you make of it.  Why not make it great?



michaelGA -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 11:47:46 AM)

the professionals everyone seems to hold in high regard aon completely anf totally clueless...they get paid to tell people everything's gonna be altight and life's worth living

if it's so wonderful to live, then why seek out a mythical "destination" for this so-called "after-life"?



kittensmailbox -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 11:54:27 AM)

Because, suicide is a sin...



MHOO314 -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 12:38:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittensmailbox

Because, suicide is a sin...


according to the laws of "man"---no one has come back to argue otherwise.



BitaTruble -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 12:42:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA

the professionals everyone seems to hold in high regard aon completely anf totally clueless...they get paid to tell people everything's gonna be altight and life's worth living

if it's so wonderful to live, then why seek out a mythical "destination" for this so-called "after-life"?



You don't really think you're going to get an answer to the meaning of "your" life on a BDSM message forum, do you? It's internal, Michael. Get a life or don't. That's your choice.

Celeste




Vancouver_cinful -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 1:10:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelGA
"If heaven's such a great place, what are we waiting for...let's go? i mean, why continue here on this plain of existence? why continue to struggle day in and day out, trying to make ends meet, worrying about terrorism, disease, famine, death? what keeps us here?"


Curiousity...plain and simple. I wake up every day curious. Curious as to what will happen that day, curious to see where the cliffhangers of the day before will lead me, curious as to what will change, what will stay the same...

Curiousity is the bane, and the blessing, of my existance.

Interesting question, Michael. (Also an ironic one, considering that you are named after an archangel...)

Cin



michaelGA -> RE: If Heaven's Such A Great Place... (3/25/2006 1:18:12 PM)

i already know the meaning of life...IT ENDS 



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