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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 12:26:39 PM

xBullx

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Speaking about being fucked up; what does the past Popes sleeping habits have to do with Gorean slavery. Someones credibility may be sufferring, but that person isn't likely a Catholic

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

So, according to the book referred to in the link, because JP Junior had a gorean slave fetish and liked sleeping on the floor, and because he enjoyed self-flagellation, there is a case for his canonization?

And people wonder why the Catholic church gets laughed at for being fucked up .

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 12:37:10 PM

domiguy

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The book is called "Why he is a saint." Should be retitled to, "Why he is a douchebag."

Where in the Bible did Jesus whip himself? Where in the bible did it suggest that you get closer to Christ or become a better Christian by engaging in such an activity?

I believe the whole notion of Christianity, which seems to get lost on so many, is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as you savior. Not just acknowledging that Jesus was the son of God but also accepting his words as a model to live by.

But what the fuck, whether you whip yourself or fuck young boys I gots the feeling they are probably all going to end up at the same final destination.

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< Message edited by domiguy -- 1/26/2010 12:38:01 PM >

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 12:43:53 PM

Rule

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He was one of the most evil people of the twentieth century. No better cover for such a person than to have had himself been chosen as Pope to be above all suspicion - all suspicion except mine. I have seen his black heart.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 12:56:14 PM

kittinSol

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Everyone knows that gorslaves sleep on concrete, Bull. I'm surprised that you, of all people, are not aware of this. Pillows are too good for them.

I just had another vision of enlightenment! The Pope WAS a gorslave: he wore a funny hat and flowy robes, just like kajs do.

There we have it.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 1:24:07 PM

Lockit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

The book is called "Why he is a saint." Should be retitled to, "Why he is a douchebag."

Where in the Bible did Jesus whip himself? Where in the bible did it suggest that you get closer to Christ or become a better Christian by engaging in such an activity?

I believe the whole notion of Christianity, which seems to get lost on so many, is the acceptance of Jesus Christ as you savior. Not just acknowledging that Jesus was the son of God but also accepting his words as a model to live by.

But what the fuck, whether you whip yourself or fuck young boys I gots the feeling they are probably all going to end up at the same final destination.

catholicscomehome.org

Although I really will avoid talking scriptures... I agree with this.. for the most part! lol There is scripture that states that one will suffer for Christ, but it isn't meant as self punishment, but in life in general for your beliefs and such. That is my take on it anyway. There are plenty of scriptures that state that if you have sinned... you go to the Father, through Jesus Christ and ask that they be forgiven. Jesus said, go forth and sin no more. I see nothing that suggests you undo what Christ did on the cross for your ability to be forgiven... already done... already the sacrifice... already forgiven by the price he paid and therefore... once you are truely repentant and ask for that forgiveness... why the flogging or punishment? I see it almost as an insult to what Christ did on the cross and gave for the sins of man.

(This is my opinion... I don't want to debate it! I will just say... this is my opinion and you are correct if a debate is started. lol)

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 1:26:32 PM

vincentML

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

He was one of the most evil people of the twentieth century. No better cover for such a person than to have had himself been chosen as Pope to be above all suspicion - all suspicion except mine. I have seen his black heart.

I am curious to know why you say that Rule, not that i have any opinion on the man. What are the characteristics of blackness you see in his heart?

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 2:00:03 PM

kittinSol

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Actually, the new Pope strikes me as far more evil than John Paul. He totally looks like Emperor Palpatine.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 2:19:33 PM

xBullx

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Well kittin, your ignorance doesn't surprise, nor does your gift to generalize on things you think you know about.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kittinSol

Everyone knows that gorslaves sleep on concrete, Bull. I'm surprised that you, of all people, are not aware of this. Pillows are too good for them.

I just had another vision of enlightenment! The Pope WAS a gorslave: he wore a funny hat and flowy robes, just like kajs do.

There we have it.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 2:21:38 PM

domiguy

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As the Great Earthly Ambassador to Gor, kitn, it would be appropriate if you were to go through the proper channels if you have any further disagreements or grievances.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 2:30:50 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

As the Great Earthly Ambassador to Gor, kitn, it would be appropriate if you were to go through the proper channels if you have any further disagreements or grievances.

This unworthy one apologises, Oh GEAG, if she stepped out of her boundaries. This slave was led to believe by your planet folks that herself and other lowly slaves aren't deserving of sleeping on soft pillowy feathery surfaces that are muchly good only for the Free, your Greatest One. This slave will muchly remember in the future to ensure that this slave doesn't speak out of line by repeating things she has heard on the Gorean grapevine, Oh you marvellous GEAG.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 2:34:30 PM

AnimusRex

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Lockit-
Likewise, I have no appetite for a Scriptural debate; my fight card is crowded with various Teabaggers and winguts, here and on other sites.
Further, no one should take any of my comments as an unqualified defense or apolgy for the Church, with whom I have plenty of disagreement.

However, for the record; the inflicting of pain you reference is practiced by several Catholic orders, but most notably by Opus Dei (Works of God) who featured in the Da Vinci Code. What you refer to is called corporal mortification .

This is what I alluded to in my first post. But what you won't find on the Opus Dei page describing corporal mortification is that the religious and the kinky practice voluntary suffering for many of the same reasons.

Religions- all religions- are centered around trying to make real and understandable things that are unreal and impossible to understand- we can't grasp the concept of an eternal all powerful God, and we struggle in vain for a way to express our longing, to get a tangible sense of the divine. So all religions use metaphors and allegories to help us express our deeper selves.

Religious people regularly endure fasting- which is a low level of suffering, which in turn helps them reach a deeper sense of helplessness and awareness of their own bodies. They don't call it "subspace" but it acheives a similar purpose- we accept our powerlessness in the case of the epic struggle of our lives, to come to terms with our own mortality, and failures.
Human rights groups oppopse torture because it is a violation of human diginity- the torturer has unlimited power over the victim, the ability to reach inside someone and strip them of their very person, reducing them to an object.
Does anyone think it is a coincidence that we call our clubs "Dungeons"? How many are aware that erotic crucifixion is a strong kink for many people? There is much more going on in the BDSM world than people getting their dick hard.

Some see this as blasphemous, but I see it as chasing after the same end- trying to grapple with our impossible task, which is to acheive spiritual transcendence while inside a mortal body.

P.S.
You want fucked up? We are born, live our lives in seemingly arbitrary suffering and cruelty, then die, without any way of knowing what- if anything- awaits us. THATS fucked up, and its the central question that we all grapple with all our lives.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 2:43:57 PM

kittinSol

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quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex
You want fucked up? We are born, live our lives in seemingly arbitrary suffering and cruelty, then die, without any way of knowing what- if anything- awaits us. THATS fucked up, and its the central question that we all grapple with all our lives.

That is very true, although what has struck me as even crueller all of my sentient life (I was a sensitive child, mature beyond my years), was how so many have to live through so much suffering and pain. There's an inbalance there that suggests... there is no benevolent figure up there.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 2:54:40 PM

Lockit

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Hello AnimusRex... good to see you!

I hear what you are saying and I think I do understand it and agree. lol I see this differently in a sense and it could be in the bibles and the differences there, becasue I do not know the catholic bible. Of the many bible's I have studied, that wasn't one of them. I know it is different somehow than those I studied, but don't know those differences.

I can see the human effect, cause, reasoning etc.. but don't see a biblical foundation for it. Just as I don't see confession to a priest when Jesus is the priest and go between man and god. lol See, there are a lot of things that can be disputed or whatever.. but I do get that man will replace what I think is already formed, for lack of a feeling or place they feel they must get to by way of other measures. But I do get that need to some degree. lol This is just part of my take on it all and that can be debated big time! lol

As for fasting... that is found in the bible or the many versions I studied. That was a purification process I believe founded on good health of the body and of a spiritual nature and if I remember correctly there are different types of fasting that are discussed. But at the moment I can't remember.

I don't know of anything of a physical nature as in punishment or sacrifice for sins because punishment was to be served when there was a judgment day and if forgiven and covered by the cross and what was done there... is covered already.

But damn... my days of going scripture by scripture and figuring out all this stuff are way over! lol

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 2:54:52 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Dang... as hard as I try to stay away from the scary religion and politics... the thread gets moved there! lol Guess ya learn something every day...

What's so scary?

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 2:56:44 PM

Lockit

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lockit

Dang... as hard as I try to stay away from the scary religion and politics... the thread gets moved there! lol Guess ya learn something every day...

What's so scary?

Come on over, we promise to treat you nicely.

Ah huh... sure... lol That somehow reminds me of.. hey lil girl, want some candy? lol

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 3:09:03 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: EbonyWood

quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

It was someplace more remote in either China, Tibet, Vietnam.....something.

India.

Plus Shiite mourners self flagellate.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Flagellation

Though doubtless at an early date a private means of penance and mortification, such use is publicly exemplified in the tenth and eleventh centuries by the lives of St. Dominic Loricatus (P.L., CXLIV, 1017) and St. Peter Damian (died 1072).

The latter wrote a special treatise in praise of self-flagellation; though blamed by some contemporaries for excess of zeal, his example and the high esteem in which he was held did much to popularize the voluntary use of the scourge or "discipline" as a means of mortification and penance.

Thenceforth it is met with in most medieval religious orders and associations. The practice was, of course, capable of abuse, and so arose in the thirteenth century the fanatical sect of the Flagellants, though in the same period we meet with the private use of the "discipline" by such saintly persons as King Louis IX and Elizabeth of Thuringia.

< Message edited by rulemylife -- 1/26/2010 3:24:05 PM >

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 3:44:26 PM

rulemylife

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

He was one of the most evil people of the twentieth century. No better cover for such a person than to have had himself been chosen as Pope to be above all suspicion - all suspicion except mine. I have seen his black heart.

Oh, this one I have to hear.

Please do elaborate.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 4:44:17 PM

littlewonder

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I think many cardinals and priests will flaggelate themselves as a form of penance so that they can feel a closeness to Jesus. This used to be a regular practice among priests. It's not a new concept.

Many would use floggers, whips or a cilice to represent the sacrifice of Christ.

I think those who are religious or spiritual use something in our lives to symbolize sacrifice in our lives to something larger than ourselves....fasting, abstinence, going without whatever it is we enjoy to show that we are one with with the One we believe..even if it is our Master/Owner/etc...

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 5:11:26 PM

Marc2b

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quote:

That is very true, although what has struck me as even crueller all of my sentient life (I was a sensitive child, mature beyond my years), was how so many have to live through so much suffering and pain. There's an inbalance there that suggests... there is no benevolent figure up there.

I like to think that HE (She? Both? Neither?) is a hands off kind of guy. You know that moment when you were learning to ride a bike and mom or dad ran along side you, holding the handle bars for a moment and then letting go - and you had to wobble along on your own for the first time (excited but a little scared because you knew you were going to fall over)? I think that's what God has done - He has let go. He has let go because he knows it is the only way we will learn to move forward on our own. I like to think of us as spiritual embryos. We are hear to learn, by doing for ourselves.

Just a thought.

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RE: John Paul II used belt to whip himself - 1/26/2010 6:15:06 PM

kittinSol

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You feel it's a "hands-off kind of guy" precisely because there is no guy. Even if a superior entity existed... why should it be involved in feeling anything for us?

We are so delusional in our hubris that anything cares about us, it's so sad... We are born alone; we live alone; and we die alone. And sometimes, we are lucky to find human love to accompany us through life's journey.

God is a creation of the frightened and scared.

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