RE: Obama and inconsistency (Full Version)

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willbeurdaddy -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/28/2010 3:50:32 PM)

What a cornucopia of misinformation


quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

I fail to see how that will happen,

What have they offered???????????  Nothing but NO, they seem to forget they borrowed over 8 trillion from China to pay for the war, and never put it in the budget to be voted on. Every dollar of war spending is voted for.

What has the GOP done for the middle class in the last 10 years?  Give tax breaks to the top 1% and we all see how great that worked, it worked fine. It raised the percentage of taxes paid by the wealthy, and led to continuation of an economic boom derailed by the Democrat led banking committee



They have stated they want this President to fail (yet called anyone who voted against Bush traitors) , in other words for this country to fail so they can be in charge again and borrow borrow borrow those arent the same words....Obama failing is the country succeeding. And Obamas planned borrowing is double what was borrowed during the Bush administration






Your ignorance is underwhelming.




housesub4you -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/28/2010 3:56:26 PM)

Bush never put the war in the budget, yes it was voted on  Remember when the GOP would be on the news saying anyone who does not vote for borrowing this money is a traitor and helping the terrorist????  Yet NOT one GOP member of congress has voted to support the war since BUSH got voted out, so I guess they are all helping the terrorist now

Bush borrowed over 8 trillion to pay for the War, the Dems are not borrowing 16 trillion

Actually yes it is the words Demint used, and GOD  forbid anyone say Bush should fail while a war is on, you would be calling it treason

I never realized how blind you are to facts, oh wait I should have cause you support the GOP and facts they do not care about




domiguy -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/28/2010 3:58:22 PM)

Not happy with Obama. Voted for him.

The mortgage scandal really fucked him over.  Not happy with the response.

Time will tell. Not quite ready to throw in the towel but have my doubts as to whether I will make it for the distance.




rulemylife -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/28/2010 4:12:56 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Seems silly to me to hold the PotUS at the same standard as random forum posters though.


Then let's go back to a time long ago, when the Dubya was in office eight months yet members of his administration claimed he didn't have time to be properly warned that:


Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US - Wikipedia, the free ...


Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US was the President's Daily Brief given to U.S. President George W. Bush on August 6, 2001. The President's Daily Brief




rulemylife -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/28/2010 4:27:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy

What a cornucopia of misinformation


quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

I fail to see how that will happen,

What have they offered???????????  Nothing but NO, they seem to forget they borrowed over 8 trillion from China to pay for the war, and never put it in the budget to be voted on. Every dollar of war spending is voted for.

What has the GOP done for the middle class in the last 10 years?  Give tax breaks to the top 1% and we all see how great that worked, it worked fine. It raised the percentage of taxes paid by the wealthy, and led to continuation of an economic boom derailed by the Democrat led banking committee



They have stated they want this President to fail (yet called anyone who voted against Bush traitors) , in other words for this country to fail so they can be in charge again and borrow borrow borrow those arent the same words....Obama failing is the country succeeding. And Obamas planned borrowing is double what was borrowed during the Bush administration



Your ignorance is underwhelming.


This is why I love you so much Willbeur.

You offer no sources or documentation in support of your views, instead just throwing out insults to everyone who disagrees with you.

Priceless. 




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/28/2010 4:31:33 PM)

And yet more misinformation
quote:

ORIGINAL: housesub4you

Bush never put the war in the budget, yes it was voted on  Remember when the GOP would be on the news saying anyone who does not vote for borrowing this money is a traitor and helping the terrorist????  Yet NOT one GOP member of congress has voted to support the war since BUSH got voted out, total bullshit. The voting records are available online, ya know? 2009 war funding bills were nearly unanimously passed

so I guess they are all helping the terrorist now

Bush borrowed over 8 trillion to pay for the War, the Dems are not borrowing 16 trillion since the total cost of both Afghanistan and Iraq wont even reach $3 trillion until the end of 2010, borrowing $8 trillion to fund them would be quite a trick.



Actually yes it is the words Demint used, and GOD  forbid anyone say Bush should fail while a war is on, you would be calling it treason

I never realized how blind you are to facts, oh wait I should have cause you support the GOP and facts they do not care about


You are the one who has an obvious problem with facts.




Raiikun -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/28/2010 4:58:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raiikun

Seems silly to me to hold the PotUS at the same standard as random forum posters though.


Then let's go back to a time long ago, when the Dubya was in office eight months yet members of his administration claimed he didn't have time to be properly warned that:


Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US - Wikipedia, the free ...


Bin Ladin Determined To Strike in US was the President's Daily Brief given to U.S. President George W. Bush on August 6, 2001. The President's Daily Brief


Thanks for the source showing that they were blaming Clin...err, wait.




vincentML -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 8:08:20 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

Obama is all words and no action. Just how long will he be blaming the Bush Administration ? When he said that the unemployment rate would peak at 8% after throwing 800 billion at the problem, it is holding steady at 10%.


The 800 billion was voted by Congress at the end of the Bush term, not during O's first year. And it was not for job creation; it was to unfreeze the banks, and it seems to have failed.

From Wiki:

The Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 (Division A of Pub.L. 110-343, enacted October 3, 2008), commonly referred to as a bailout of the U.S. financial system, is a law enacted in response to the subprime mortgage crisis authorizing the United States Secretary of the Treasury to spend up to US$700 billion to purchase distressed assets, especially mortgage-backed securities, and make capital injections into banks.[1] [2] Both foreign and domestic banks are included in the program. The Federal Reserve also extended help to American Express, whose bank-holding application it recently approved.[3] The Act was proposed by Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson during the global financial crisis of 2008.

The original proposal was submitted to the United States House of Representatives, with the purpose to purchase bad assets, reduce uncertainty regarding the worth of the remaining assets, and restore confidence in the credit markets. The bill was then expanded and put forward as an amendment to H.R. 3997.[4] The amendment was rejected via a vote of the House of Representatives on September 29, 2008, voting 205-228.[5]

On October 1, 2008, the Senate debated and voted on an amendment to H.R. 1424, which substituted a newly revised version of the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008 for the language of H.R. 1424.[6][7] The Senate accepted the amendment and passed the entire amended bill, voting 74-25.[8] Additional unrelated provisions added an estimated $150 billion to the cost of the package and increased the size of the bill to 451 pages.[9][10] (See Public Law 110-343 for details on the added provisions.) The amended version of H.R. 1424 was sent to the House for consideration, and on October 3, the House voted 263-171 to enact the bill into law.[6][11][12] President Bush signed the bill into law within hours of its congressional enactment, creating a $700 billion Troubled Assets Relief Program to purchase failing bank assets.[13]




vincentML -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 8:17:15 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

quote:

ORIGINAL: MzMia

To imply that President Obama did not come into office with a terrible economy, rising unemployment, and that he didn't inherit serious problems would be disingenuous and attempting to re-write history.


Absolutely true.  However, the economy is now his.  He spent a huge amount of our money for a stimulus, and the jobs have not resulted.

There is a huge difference between Bush and Obama in their words.  But Obama has not produced clean breaks with Bush in the conduct of the wars, the bailout of the economy, etc.

I didn't like Bush's policies when Bush did them, and I don't like them when Obama does them either.



I agree with most of what you say Steven, especially about the wars.

Jobs will return when banks start lending again instead of hoarding money to rebuild their Reserves so they can risk more at higher leverage.

The problem is the dismantling of Glass-Spiegal in 1999 imo.




willbeurdaddy -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 9:51:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML



The problem is the dismantling of Glass-Spiegal in 1999 imo.


I didnt know Der Spiegal was dismantled.




pyroaquatic -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 10:03:13 AM)

I am under the impression of a common business maxim...

Ya gotta spenda monah to maka monah.... (singa, in the juna and a-springa)....

I do not think it was spent at the right places.

Yes, what did happen to all of these green jobs? I was looking forward to that. In fact, where did all that money go?

Also...

this stimulus thing. What if you have chosen to not collect it? Do you get bonus points? Can I get 2000 dollars to start my business (i've been doing the research just need to get a few things in order)?

If you spend money on something that you know for a fact that will save money should you not go for it?

Ah, I do not think the boat would be better under captain McCain's watch either. Fucked either way.

I'm still for Education and Energies all the way. That is my political party. Those that are for Education and Energy. Let me repeat it again.


Education and Energy - Go for the Roots!





StrangerThan -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 10:11:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

When Obama pushed the stimulus, it was predicated on the notion that government spending created jobs. Fiscal conservatives believed either that it did not in fact do so or that it did but at a high expense.

Now in his SOTU address, he's going to announce that he will clamp down on spending while at the same time try to create jobs.  So it sounds like he will be decoupling job creation and federal spending.

Any ideas where he will try to produce jobs from if he is successful in reining in spending?  Or will he up spending this year while promising to cut a few quadrillion next year?



Every president, every politician is a study in inconsistency. The reasons are simple. They need to feed the public enough to keep said public anger directed elsewhere while doing business in washington as usual. And no matter what morality a politician carries into office, it soon evaporates.

We, the public, are usually too busy pissing and moaning at each other to realize when the person has been fully assimilated into the washington culture, and remove them from it with our vote.

we're too worried about the D and R things beside their name and too caught up in the idea that one side or the other really gives a shit about us. Along the way, we allow extremists to become the most active voices on both sides. Is it any wonder compromise is a word that has been castrated in today's society? You only have to read these boards to get a snyoptic portrait of life today. Most are firmly entrenched, and the lines are drawn.




vincentML -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 10:57:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: willbeurdaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML



The problem is the dismantling of Glass-Spiegal in 1999 imo.


I didnt know Der Spiegal was dismantled.


lmao... that's what happens when i try to type and chew gum at the same time. Guess i should have said Glass-Steagall. Hey, what's a little "pee" between friends as long as it is not on the carpet in the living room.




vincentML -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 11:00:41 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

I do not think it was spent at the right places.

Yes, what did happen to all of these green jobs? I was looking forward to that. In fact, where did all that money go?



As i understand it, the "green jobs money" is to be spent in year two and three of the program....




pyroaquatic -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 11:05:39 AM)

Ah.... I've been doing some research on what companies received what money, how much money is left... and so on....

at Recovery.org

I am going to have to get my ass in gear on this one. Since this is year two.

I guess I will have to speak with the right people, officials, and one step at a time....

i will prosper. regardless of anybodies help.




vincentML -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 11:28:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

When Obama pushed the stimulus, it was predicated on the notion that government spending created jobs. Fiscal conservatives believed either that it did not in fact do so or that it did but at a high expense.


Keynesian economists claim it was not enough. Only a portion of the stim has been spent ... money to the States to save jobs of firemen, police, and teachers plus money for "shovel-ready" jobs. Some criticism of the latter for not adding to the payrolls.

The great bulk of the job loss came in Nov, Dec, 2008 and Jan, Feb 2009. The loss has since tapered down. O was sworn in Jan 20. We elected a Prez not freakin Mighty Mouse.

quote:

Now in his SOTU address, he's going to announce that he will clamp down on spending while at the same time try to create jobs. So it sounds like he will be decoupling job creation and federal spending.


Sounds that way but he announced a three year freeze on only about maybe 17% of the discretionary budget. Also pushing for incentives for community banks to lend to small businesses. Please recall we had a bank seizure in 2008. Banks stopped lending, small businesses could not purchase supplies and meet payrolls.

quote:

Any ideas where he will try to produce jobs from if he is successful in reining in spending? Or will he up spending this year while promising to ?


Community Banks need to start lending to small businesses. Large Regional Banks need to be decoupled from investment houses and get out of the gambling business.

The national debt was over $5 trillion when GWB took office and the budget was in surplus. It was over $11 trillion when BHO took office. And the budget deficit was over one trillion. Obama was left a big ditch to climb out of. The way out is to grow the economy and thus grow the tax base with disciplined spending. The latter is the catch. Neither a D or R Congress has ever shown restraint. GWB did not veto one spending Bill. The promised freeze hardly amounts to a "cut a few quadrillion next year" I presume you were exagerating for effect.





vincentML -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 11:32:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: pyroaquatic

Ah.... I've been doing some research on what companies received what money, how much money is left... and so on....

at Recovery.org

I am going to have to get my ass in gear on this one. Since this is year two.

I guess I will have to speak with the right people, officials, and one step at a time....

i will prosper. regardless of anybodies help.



Not yet. Gotta wait till Valentines Day [:)]


The 111th Congress passed the 1,071-page American Recovery and Reinvestment Act of 2009 on Friday, 13 February 2009. The $787 billion economic stimulus package was developed ...





DarkSteven -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 6:09:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vincentML

The problem is the dismantling of Glass-Spiegal in 1999 imo.


I sorta agree.  The problem is that banks have two heads.  There's the one that makes loans, and there's the one that speculates. The speculative one is more profitable, and that's the one that crashed and burned and got bailed out.  In the name of preserving the other head.

If the loaning head was separate, we could keep that one alive while dancing on the grave of the other one.




thishereboi -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 6:59:27 PM)

quote:

Probably as long as Republicans blamed the Clinton administration.


Well as long as they did it first, by all means, carry on.[8|]




vincentML -> RE: Obama and inconsistency (1/29/2010 7:59:36 PM)

Btw Steven, I thought I heard Obama say today that the "freeze" does not begin until 2011 fiscal budget at which time hopefully the economy will be out of recession and we will be looking for ways to balance the budget.




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