RE: Has the world gone completely mad?

RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (Full Version)

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Lucylastic -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/27/2010 9:03:46 PM)
Everyone has their price.Dont blame her because you dont wanna go that high. If your kink is "specialised, be prepared to pay a leedle extra...

kinkbound -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/27/2010 9:26:59 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound I understand that Dommes may have to deal with wankers. However, in my opinion, providing full identification to a stranger before I even know what she looks like or know her tribute requirements, is beyond absurd. Define full identification. Is she going to get your home address, where you work and all your phone numbers or she just going to get your name, a picture and that you are who you say you are? Okay, straight from the horse's mouth: YOU'RE REQUIRED TO PROVIDE TO THE PROVIDERS the FOLLOWING INFORMATION! 1) Please give them your FIRST and LAST NAME! Misspelled names, makes checking membership difficult. 2) Give CITY and STATE on your DRIVERS LICENSE OR PHOTO ID / NOT where you work. 3) Provide YOUR CONTACT number (We suggest your cell number, land lines have their draw backs) This MUST be a number you have registered with us. You MUST be calling FROM or be able to be called ON your contact number! Some providers call your CONTACT number, your ID or MEMBERSHIP number! (*REMEMBER - IF the spelling of your name, city and state on your DL or your CONTACT number is not what you have registered with RS2K WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO VERIFY YOUR MEMBERSHIP

kinkbound -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/27/2010 10:06:27 PM)
quote: ~fr For the same reasons an escort service client must verify their indenty. For the girl's safety and a cop filter. I have no argument with a provider's concern for safety or LE. But really, wouldn't you want to see clear photos of the girl first, and know how much $ you're going to need before you verify your identity? Business people get to choose how they want to conduct business. That's fine. And in this case, I've decided not to do business with this woman. That's fine too. I'm just curious how others view this seemingly upside-down method of doing business, or maybe hear from others who have encountered this themselves. Is this a rare isolated case, or a growing trend?

juliaoceania -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/27/2010 11:26:55 PM)
quote: I'm just curious how others view this seemingly upside-down method of doing business, or maybe hear from others who have encountered this themselves. The title of the thread and the tone seem at odds with this statement....

kinkbound -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/27/2010 11:53:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: juliaoceania quote: I'm just curious how others view this seemingly upside-down method of doing business, or maybe hear from others who have encountered this themselves. The title of the thread and the tone seem at odds with this statement.... Yeah well, when I OP'd, I was more in a WTF state of mind, as I freshly came off receiving the woman's outrageous demand. As the day wore on, emotion gave way to logic. But I still see it as upside-down, or cart before the horse. It's illogical, just as it would be walking into a car show room, and being forced to produce your full identity prior to seeing the car or the sticker price. However, this all just doesn't have the full emotional charge that it did many hours prior. Make sense now?

ResidentSadist -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 3:02:27 AM)
The procedure you experienced is not a growing trend, it is established tradition for the client seeking intimate adult services to verify whom they are before any form of intimate conversation (or contact) will take place . . . especially concerning money or specifics about services. There are valid legal reasons for this well-established protocol. When a client phones an escort service, he gets a verbal description not a photo. At the better services, he must provide a verifiable phone number with matching name to the charge card he is using before a girl will be dispatched. I hope this helps you understand what to expect from your future contacts. Also, you should be aware that pro Dommes that do not practice this procedure, may also be skirting gray areas of the law by mentioning services and fees. If those services are to provide sexual pleasure/release or contact with the client, they are exposing themselves to investigation. In other words, raid bait. quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound quote: ~fr For the same reasons an escort service client must verify their indenty. For the girl's safety and a cop filter. I have no argument with a provider's concern for safety or LE. But really, wouldn't you want to see clear photos of the girl first, and know how much $ you're going to need before you verify your identity? Business people get to choose how they want to conduct business. That's fine. And in this case, I've decided not to do business with this woman. That's fine too. I'm just curious how others view this seemingly upside-down method of doing business, or maybe hear from others who have encountered this themselves. Is this a rare isolated case, or a growing trend?

MistressTonya2u -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 6:41:48 AM)
I do not see it as being illogical at all. It is not like you are being asked to make a payment before speaking to Her. You said you have moved on and are not intrested in proceeding with Her, just don't be surprised if you see this again from someone else.

AquaticSub -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 8:03:20 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO VERIFY YOUR MEMBERSHIP That is what they need to verify you. What will she actually get?

AquaticSub -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 8:07:02 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound I have no argument with a provider's concern for safety or LE. But really, wouldn't you want to see clear photos of the girl first, and know how much $ you're going to need before you verify your identity? I'm sure it would be nice. But, as someone who is considering going into the business herself... I can say that I really don't care and I don't her to either. Since I still don't know how much information she is actually going to get through the service (just because they have to have all that info to be able to say that you are who you say you are doesn't mean they will give her all that information) I still don't see the problem. At the end of the day, it isn't your neck on the line. It's hers.

kinkbound -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 11:53:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO VERIFY YOUR MEMBERSHIP That is what they need to verify you. What will she actually get? Well, if I'm correctly understanding what RS2K has quoted as shown in post 42, she gets only the information that I give her, which is: My correctly spelled first and last name, The city and state as it appears on my driver's license or state-issued photo ID, The contact phone number I registered with RS2K, preferably my cell phone number. She then sends this information to the RS2K, who then either verifies it or rejects it.

kinkbound -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 12:23:04 PM)
quote: The procedure you experienced is not a growing trend, it is established tradition for the client seeking intimate adult services to verify whom they are before any form of intimate conversation (or contact) will take place . . . especially concerning money or specifics about services. There are valid legal reasons for this well-established protocol. Indeed, expressing an offer of cash in exchange for a sexual act or vice-versa is soliciting, of which I clearly understand the need to avoid. quote: When a client phones an escort service, he gets a verbal description not a photo. At the better services, he must provide a verifiable phone number with matching name to the charge card he is using before a girl will be dispatched. This has not been my experience in the past, which is why I became so perplexed when this came up yesterday. However, I admit that I've been out of this game for almost 3 years, and the landscape certainly may have changed in the meantime. quote: I hope this helps you understand what to expect from your future contacts. Also, you should be aware that pro Dommes that do not practice this procedure, may also be skirting gray areas of the law by mentioning services and fees. If those services are to provide sexual pleasure/release or contact with the client, they are exposing themselves to investigation. In other words, raid bait. I'm certainly no student of law, and perhaps laws may even vary from state to state, or may have changed over time. However, some years ago, I had been advised by a family-member attorney that as long as a discussion of a sexual act in exchange for cash never comes up, there's really no legal problem to contend with. The cash donation or tribute is always in exchange for the woman's time, and not for any activites that may ultimately transpire as a result of two consenting adults. And conducting my behavior along these lines will keep both myself and the woman out of trouble. While I appreciate your time and effort, it's still not clear to me whether the advice I had been given in the past still applies today.

AquaticSub -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 12:27:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound quote: ORIGINAL: AquaticSub quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound WE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO VERIFY YOUR MEMBERSHIP That is what they need to verify you. What will she actually get? Well, if I'm correctly understanding what RS2K has quoted as shown in post 42, she gets only the information that I give her, which is: My correctly spelled first and last name, The city and state as it appears on my driver's license or state-issued photo ID, The contact phone number I registered with RS2K, preferably my cell phone number. She then sends this information to the RS2K, who then either verifies it or rejects it. So what on earth are you complaining about? That's the same basic info you'd give her anyway, if you've already got this service it doesn't cost you anything and if you don't have it's a one-time fee that you can choose to pay or not. She's not getting your home address, she's not getting where you work, she's not getting a CC number, she's not getting anything that she shouldn't reasonably be asking for!

kinkbound -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 12:36:56 PM)
I clearly stated up front that this was not a verification scam, and that it wouldn't cost me another cent to comply. What I'm complaining about is being required to disclose my ID prior to seeing recent photos of the woman and knowing what my investment would be. I've never had to do this in the past. I personally think this is completely upside-down, and felt curious as to whether I'm dealing with a new trend.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 12:57:36 PM)
A few points. 1. The crap-to-client ratio for prodommes on this site is horrendous. It shouldn't be a surprise that some women have started using outlandish-seeming filters to thin the crowds marauding their inboxes. Frankly, kinkbound, you'd be better served looking at Eros or MaxFisch. 2. I concur with ResidentSadist that this is a longstanding policy of many establishments. However, I do believe there has been a significant increase over the last few years in requiring full names ASAP. The courts loosened the rules on how police officers can represent themselves in sting operations, and longtime "safe zones" like New York City have been closing professional dungeons. So pros are running more risks than they were ten years ago. 3. Did you have any exterior evidence that this prodomme was actually female? A link to her web site? If no, what intrigued you enough to write her in the first place? I've heard there are actually people on the internet who sometimes scam other people. Again, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to make a professional connection off this site. 4. Finally, for actual dating -- I've found it a very good policy to give my name and contact info very quickly. What do I care if the woman "isn't serious" or "isn't real?" It dispels a lot of fears in her if I am forthcoming and not game-playing. Plus, she's a lot more likely to be forthright about herself. I can't see how things would be that much different when talking with a prodomme for the first time. She'll feel more at ease if you're open and direct.

kinkbound -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 1:41:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 1. The crap-to-client ratio for prodommes on this site is horrendous. It shouldn't be a surprise that some women have started using outlandish-seeming filters to thin the crowds marauding their inboxes. Frankly, kinkbound, you'd be better served looking at Eros or MaxFisch. Thanks for the leads. I'll have a look. quote: 2. I concur with ResidentSadist that this is a longstanding policy of many establishments. However, I do believe there has been a significant increase over the last few years in requiring full names ASAP. The courts loosened the rules on how police officers can represent themselves in sting operations, and longtime "safe zones" like New York City have been closing professional dungeons. So pros are running more risks than they were ten years ago. As far as I could tell, the woman is operating independently. She mentions no affiliation as many of the Pro Dommes here do. quote: 3. Did you have any exterior evidence that this prodomme was actually female? A link to her web site? If no, what intrigued you enough to write her in the first place? I've heard there are actually people on the internet who sometimes scam other people. Again, I wouldn't be in a big hurry to make a professional connection off this site. Other than her claim; and her obscure, dark, and computer altered photos; no. quote: 4. Finally, for actual dating -- I've found it a very good policy to give my name and contact info very quickly. What do I care if the woman "isn't serious" or "isn't real?" It dispels a lot of fears in her if I am forthcoming and not game-playing. Plus, she's a lot more likely to be forthright about herself. I can't see how things would be that much different when talking with a prodomme for the first time. She'll feel more at ease if you're open and direct. Well, I'm not overjoyed about the prospects of losing the advantages I once enjoyed. Those are of course, clearly seeing what I'm contemplating investing my money in and knowing what my cost will be, before I ante-in my ID. This seemed as good of a place as any to put my situation out there, elicit the thoughts of others, and see if the world has changed since I've last played the game. Thanks to you and others who have participated so far.

AquaticSub -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 2:00:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: kinkbound I clearly stated up front that this was not a verification scam, and that it wouldn't cost me another cent to comply. What I'm complaining about is being required to disclose my ID prior to seeing recent photos of the woman and knowing what my investment would be. I've never had to do this in the past. I personally think this is completely upside-down, and felt curious as to whether I'm dealing with a new trend. Maybe you weren't paying attention... I didn't say you were saying it was a scam. I asking you what the hell you were complaining about. You aren't having to make any effort on your part. You've put more effort into this thread than it would take you to go "My name is John Doe, my number is 555.555.5555 and my city and state are Gotham, Metropolis". Then she calls to verify. And you are complaining because you don't get to see her picture before you take 30 seconds to type that info out? ETA: quote: Well, I'm not overjoyed about the prospects of losing the advantages I once enjoyed. Those are of course, clearly seeing what I'm contemplating investing my money in and knowing what my cost will be, before I ante-in my ID. Ahh... there is the key. You want to have all the power in this situation. It's not an alarming trend, it doesn't take long, it not complicated, you just have to give up your ID before she does. And that bothers you.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 2:10:08 PM)
I was sloppy about one thing in my post. I should have said that, when setting up dates off the internet, I've found it very helpful to offer my contact info within the first few emails. By which I mean: full name, personal web site, sometimes a link to something I've written, phone number. It's not a good idea to send a phone number or Yahoo IM info right off the bat, because women find it offputting. It's like an invasion of a personal space bubble. So a good question to ask, by email three or so, is, "May I send you my phone number?" By contrast, I've had several female friends (mostly dommes) complain to me about men who send their name, address and phone number in the first email. It's too much information, and you're more likely to generate a block than a response back.

kinkbound -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 4:56:16 PM)
quote: Ahh... there is the key. You want to have all the power in this situation. It's not an alarming trend, it doesn't take long, it not complicated, you just have to give up your ID before she does. And that bothers you. That's absurd. This has had absolutely nothing to do with taking a long time or being complicated, and everything to do with wanting to know what a woman looks like and what she charges before I disclose my ID. I think I've made this clear enough already. Also, showing someone what you look like via photos, and quoting donation requirements isn't nearly the same as disclosing one's legal name, city and state, and telephone number. By the way, do you often tell other people what bothers them? This seems a bit rude, if not outright flame baiting.

kinkbound -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 5:04:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: RedMagic1 I was sloppy about one thing in my post. I should have said that, when setting up dates off the internet, I've found it very helpful to offer my contact info within the first few emails. By which I mean: full name, personal web site, sometimes a link to something I've written, phone number. It's not a good idea to send a phone number or Yahoo IM info right off the bat, because women find it offputting. It's like an invasion of a personal space bubble. So a good question to ask, by email three or so, is, "May I send you my phone number?" By contrast, I've had several female friends (mostly dommes) complain to me about men who send their name, address and phone number in the first email. It's too much information, and you're more likely to generate a block than a response back. It seems I may have misunderstood your earlier reference to "dating" in post 54. After reading this message, it now seems clear that you meant legit, non-pro dating.

RedMagic1 -> RE: Has the world gone completely mad? (1/28/2010 5:13:57 PM)
Yes. Although -- prodommes date. Several have personals on this site, in fact, looking for relationship partners. I've dated two off CM. Interestingly, both of their personal profiles were "sub," although they sexually switched. It's not uncommon to want strong nilla, or dom, for boyfriend, and want subs/slaves professionally.

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