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RE: Limits & Compatibility - 1/30/2010 5:08:08 AM

lally2

Posts: 2621
Joined: 4/16/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedreality

This is about the mind. Lines/limits shift in time and in respect to current reality.. What are precieved as hard limits, from a submissive view, can be adjusted. If I have learned nothing else, I have learned that I don't have as many hard limits as I thought I did. And that only truly core values do not adjust. .

this brings up a salient point. until we actually start experiencing things its hard to put a value on them. alot of people think something sounds scary/awful//mad so they put it down as a hard limit. then along comes a D who they think is the bees knees and those limits soften and dwindle.

ive just had a cmail from a guy, first time of hearing from him, asking me if id be interested in bukkake and then slurping it all up. - ive never done this, i cant imagine enjoying it at all, but if my Master wished me to do it, i would. i imagine it would be disgusting though. just off the bat like that though from a stranger and my reaction to the whole thing is 'hell no'.

but how many people discuss or even think of every single kink out there when first getting to know someone. ive certainly never put bukkake up as a limit because a) id never heard of it before that thread went up on it a few weeks ago and b) it doesnt really fall into BD or Sm, its one of those peripheral things, of which there are many.

point is, i might be happily in submission and theres been no mention and then wham, bukkake is brought up. right now id say 'hard limit' to someone i didnt know so well, but after getting to know them and in submission i cant honestly say that im sufficiently 'informed' to say no.

after having so many limits soften and dwindle i think that its all about exposure to that phenomenon of learning that nothing is a limit (apart from the ethical things) until youve tried them and really know you cant do it again.

but other things that you may not enjoy but you know you can do again, are they soft limits i wonder. how do you go about placing a soft limit down.

_____________________________

So all I have to do in order to serve him, is to work out exactly how improbable he is, feed that figure into the finite improbability generator, give him a fresh cup of really hot tea ... and turn him on!

(in reply to twistedreality)

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Post #: 61

RE: Limits & Compatibility - 1/30/2010 9:21:13 AM

sugrdaddydom

Posts: 3
Joined: 11/18/2008
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I respect hard limits just as much as I expect my hard limits to be respected. If I find a sub has a hard limit around something that is important to me, we are simply not compatible. Since I am only interested in long-term, there would be no point in continuing a relationship. I do not believe that hard limits can be "negotiated," otherwise they would not be a hard limit. A soft limit can be discussed, negotiated, expanded, enjoyed. Or conversely, they can be disliked and converted into a hard limit if necessary. Communication is very important in testing the boundaries of soft limits. If a sub is unsure, it would be recommended they use soft limits to gain experience in a slow, measured manner.

Tim

(in reply to pyroaquatic)

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Post #: 62

RE: Limits & Compatibility - 1/30/2010 11:30:21 AM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

I guess there are those in life that ride the edge, grinding and striving for 'perfect' when they are not sure what perfect is. ha... no-limits.
The end of one edge is a start of another. boundaries twist and blur.

to define this essence is like catching effervescence, the scope of actual limitations. a lifespan is limited and soon to be incompatible with anything.

Live it, push it, and learn. That is about all I can do.

I adore this guy's brain ;-)

- LA

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Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

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Post #: 63

RE: Limits & Compatibility - 1/30/2010 11:33:25 AM

RumpusParable

Posts: 1923
Joined: 7/7/2005
From: NYC now!
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I'm very much the same as the OP, for the most part. I do, however, rule out anyone that wants to be more than just occasional play partners if their hard limits include needles and bloodplay. If you want to be my slave then you have to have these as options, even if it's after a while of having trust in my abilities established.... soft limits, fine, but as a hard limit, no. They are simply too important to me and we are therefore not compatible.

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(in reply to LadyAngelika)

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Post #: 64

RE: Limits & Compatibility - 1/30/2010 2:38:38 PM

jujubeeMB

Posts: 723
Joined: 1/8/2010
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I may be new to this, but when I signed the submissive contract (you know, the one that says all the rules you HAVE to follow in order to dare call yourself submissive) I didn't see any paragraph about how agreeing to serve a Dom was automatically agreeing to anything he wanted, including pushing past my hard limits. What I DID see on that fantastic, 12-page contract was a paragraph reminding me that in the end, my needs are as important in a relationship as my Dom's, and one of those needs is the ability to ultimately protect my own health and safety, whether he feels I'm being silly or not.

If you're willing to be pushed on a hard limit, then it's not a hard limit - it's a soft limit. Hard means "no," and growing has nothing to do with it. I admire (and am jealous of) those who have written to say that they have no hard limits with their Dom (Master, Owner) because their only limits are things like death and dismemberment (remind me to add those to my list), but not everyone has the same kinks and interests, and it would be ridiculous for me to submit over and over to something that made me feel sick, damaged my body, or hurt me psychologically. Eating someone's...er... poo, for example. It's just not fathomable to me. If someone proposed making me do it after I expressly let him know it was a hard limit, I'd politely say my safe word and leave. But most people understand that hard limit, right? Anal sex is another thing I can't do, for medical reasons. Very few men that I've slept with have been comfortable with that as a limit, despite the fact that I just can't do it. Several have proposed doing it anyway, and being "really careful." To me, that translates to "I care more about my own sexual pleasure than your short and long term health." And I don't find it an attractive trait in anyone, regardless of whether they're dominant or not.

Probably I'm going to get my submissive membership revoked now, but I would even dare to say that D/s is just as much about the sub's pleasure as the Dominant's. People who are submissive don't do it because it we feel we have to - presumably it's because we really badly want to. When soft limits are pushed, that thrill of pleasure is still there because it's difficult, but it's not impossible. When hard limits are pushed, that's about something entirely different. I understand the easy power in making someone do something they really don't want to do, but is it worth losing their trust?

(in reply to RumpusParable)

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Post #: 65

RE: Limits & Compatibility - 1/30/2010 3:48:07 PM

RealSub58

Posts: 1073
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I suppose my thoughts on this are late since the OP was 3 days ago. Others may have mulled over what I am about to say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

This is taken from a post I made on another thread but it has been rattling around in my head recently, simply wondering if the way I approach this is the norm or not. In the end, it won't change my way of doing things (well you never know ;-), but I ask more out of curiosity and with the hope of generating a discussion around this topic.

I am believing that you are domme. Simply setting up my reply.

quote:

Ideally, WIITWD is played out within the realm of negotiated limits, right?

Sir and I never negotiated limits. He began to get a grasp on my personality, my past issues with doms, and asked me straight out what I thought I could never do ... for whatever reason. He could accept any reason.

quote:

I classify hard limits into two categories 1) those that I don't find morally offensive but squick me (blood play, needles, scat) and

since when does MORAL have anything to do with blood needles or scat - - - your examples of moral.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moral
Morals in my working mind is right or wrong. Blood, needles or scat is not wrong unless you specifiy they are wrong for "me." There might come a time when needles become a curiosity and then are then morally wrong? Hell no.
Personally, I have no issues with Sir's blood or my own, but a stranger..hell NO !
Scat...it isn't morally wrong, but wrong in regards to sceintific background. Sir would agree.

Why don't you use examples that are morally wrong ! Sharing, children. exhibitionism in public (where an arrest might occur), blah blah blah.

quote:

2) those that I find morally problematic (re: against the TOS).

If you are using TOS as morally perfectioso...then think again.
Breaking TOS is not something I do on purpose but if I do, I do not put shame upon myself and grovel around as if I have broken some moral code between me and God.

quote:

When I meet any play partner, the way I say it is here is what I like to do, and here are my hard limits.

If we have the same hard limits, then we have no issues.

If his scope of hard limits goes beyond the ones I find morally problematic, there are really good chances I won't date him. If they go beyond what squick me, there are good chances he may go without this kind of play, and if that is an issue for him, we will probably not get together.

Now if his scope of hard limits is more narrow than mine, he needs to be open to exploring and expanding his hard limits. That is how I see things and I will not limit my play to cater to his limits, though I will be smart about things and ease him into things. Since I'm not *that* extreme, this has rarely been an issue.

So yes, in what I'm saying above, some things might be done "against your will" as you say, which isn't the same as nonconsensually.

I don't understand what the previous statement/quote is all about

quote:

Dominants, is this pretty much how you see things? I know it can come across as limiting, that a submissive couldn't help me explore a limit, but I figure I've been doing this long enough that I know which limits won't budge.

Submissives, how do you feel about the above statement?

Sounds all manipulative to me.
I told Sir giving me off to a dominant while he was not present was a VERY hard limit I could not endure ever again due to safety issues.
His promise to always keep me safe emotionally, mentally and physically was ALL I needed to prove to me he was a moral man.

quote:

Switches.... well add whatever you like to the conversation ;-)

- LA

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

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Post #: 66

RE: Limits & Compatibility - 1/30/2010 4:12:02 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: RealSub58

I suppose my thoughts on this are late since the OP was 3 days ago. Others may have mulled over what I am about to say.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

This is taken from a post I made on another thread but it has been rattling around in my head recently, simply wondering if the way I approach this is the norm or not. In the end, it won't change my way of doing things (well you never know ;-), but I ask more out of curiosity and with the hope of generating a discussion around this topic.

I am believing that you are domme. Simply setting up my reply.

Good.

quote:

quote:

Ideally, WIITWD is played out within the realm of negotiated limits, right?

Sir and I never negotiated limits. He began to get a grasp on my personality, my past issues with doms, and asked me straight out what I thought I could never do ... for whatever reason. He could accept any reason.

Sounds reasonable so far. I would have a very similar approach.

quote:

quote:

I classify hard limits into two categories 1) those that I don't find morally offensive but squick me (blood play, needles, scat) and

since when does MORAL have anything to do with blood needles or scat - - - your examples of moral.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/moral
Morals in my working mind is right or wrong. Blood, needles or scat is not wrong unless you specifiy they are wrong for "me." There might come a time when needles become a curiosity and then are then morally wrong? Hell no.
Personally, I have no issues with Sir's blood or my own, but a stranger..hell NO !
Scat...it isn't morally wrong, but wrong in regards to sceintific background. Sir would agree.

Why don't you use examples that are morally wrong ! Sharing, children. exhibitionism in public (where an arrest might occur), blah blah blah.

You misread me big time :-) I highlighted a very important word for you in bold and red.

quote:

quote:

2) those that I find morally problematic (re: against the TOS).

If you are using TOS as morally perfectioso...then think again.
Breaking TOS is not something I do on purpose but if I do, I do not put shame upon myself and grovel around as if I have broken some moral code between me and God.

I was using as a reference for what I don't find moral as the TOS seems to be aligned with my beliefs. I don't impose those on others. Nor do I believe in God.

quote:

quote:

When I meet any play partner, the way I say it is here is what I like to do, and here are my hard limits.

If we have the same hard limits, then we have no issues.

If his scope of hard limits goes beyond the ones I find morally problematic, there are really good chances I won't date him. If they go beyond what squick me, there are good chances he may go without this kind of play, and if that is an issue for him, we will probably not get together.

Now if his scope of hard limits is more narrow than mine, he needs to be open to exploring and expanding his hard limits. That is how I see things and I will not limit my play to cater to his limits, though I will be smart about things and ease him into things. Since I'm not *that* extreme, this has rarely been an issue.

So yes, in what I'm saying above, some things might be done "against your will" as you say, which isn't the same as nonconsensually.

I don't understand what the previous statement/quote is all about

What is it about it that you don't understand? Tell me and I'll try to clarify it for you.

quote:

quote:

Dominants, is this pretty much how you see things? I know it can come across as limiting, that a submissive couldn't help me explore a limit, but I figure I've been doing this long enough that I know which limits won't budge.

Submissives, how do you feel about the above statement?

Sounds all manipulative to me.
I told Sir giving me off to a dominant while he was not present was a VERY hard limit I could not endure ever again due to safety issues.
His promise to always keep me safe emotionally, mentally and physically was ALL I needed to prove to me he was a moral man.

I don't see how what I wrote is manipulative if I state this to someone when I first meet them. I mean, the man does have a choice to not be my submissive, right?

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to RealSub58)

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RE: Limits & Compatibility - 2/22/2010 1:10:50 PM

chrissienola

Posts: 6
Joined: 2/20/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lally2

quote:

ORIGINAL: twistedreality

ive just had a cmail from a guy, first time of hearing from him, asking me if id be interested in bukkake and then slurping it all up. - ive never done this, i cant imagine enjoying it at all, but if my Master wished me to do it, i would. i imagine it would be disgusting though. just off the bat like that though from a stranger and my reaction to the whole thing is 'hell no'.

but how many people discuss or even think of every single kink out there when first getting to know someone. ive certainly never put bukkake up as a limit because a) id never heard of it before that thread went up on it a few weeks ago and b) it doesnt really fall into BD or Sm, its one of those peripheral things, of which there are many.

I had never heard of bukkake either.. my former Mistress newI had a fear of cum... I had given a few blowjobs and had swallowed in the act (let me say first that I'm a crossdresser). well my limit f this first lead me taste my own as after I had cum she made me lick it up... later when blindfolded she brought a guy into room and had me give him head... i pleaded with her not to let him cum... later we talked about it and w/ her control i agreed to let her have control on this... my next visit I had to arrive in full drag and she had 3 guys in the room.. they took turns cuming on my face, hair and chest.. i had to leave looking like a sluttyier Monica Lewinski with dried cum all over me... so humiliating.. but by pushing my limits I craved for another bukkake experience.. nothing as submissive as having guys cum all over you as u lay still to recieve their spunk

(in reply to lally2)

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RE: Limits & Compatibility - 2/22/2010 10:45:01 PM

Smutmonger

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I've had my limits expanded by subs,and done the same with them.

Limits are often defined by preconcieved notions and uneducated perceptions.

I have found more interesting people over time by searching things that most hard limit out of social conditioning.

Note that I have stressed "conditioning".....since I am usually more interested in *breaking down* that conditioning over time. I prefer minds that are freer.

I really didn't come to alternative lifestyles to explore new horizons in vanilla conformity. That wear a cute little leather mask.

(in reply to LadyAngelika)

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RE: Limits & Compatibility - 2/23/2010 9:45:19 AM

MistressRoux

Posts: 118
Joined: 2/20/2010
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not necessarily.

if he is opposed to something i like, it just won't work. and vice versa.

there are some things i like once in a blue moon or am a bit curious about. if a sub dislikes it, it's not necessarily a deal breaker.

i'm not really willing to compromise. if he can't deal, on to the next one. i realized that one prior toy who is bisexual was not interested in queening or oral with women when he started phoning it in. otherwise, it's never been an issue. in anything you do, do it right or don't do it at all.

(in reply to ResidentSadist)

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Post #: 70