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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 11:58:49 AM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?


If we do not strive to the stars we will eventually be doomed to extinction...we can do both at the same time don't you think?


I doubt it - human beings have the capacity to change with the environment.

I'm curious on what the objective is with such theories. Find 'the truth' - I doubt that - were people to find 'the truth' they'd be pretty pissed off because it's the puzzle that keeps people occupied.


I'm not talking about challenges on earth...I am talking extinction by asteroid or comet...or massive eruptions in the earths environment ...Nothing is permanent ...even our earth and our survival...If we have no refuge from the future other than our speck in the universe we will be gone and forgotten on the comic scale in the blink of an eye.

I believe it is of the greatest importance that we pursue space travel even in dire times.

Butch


< Message edited by kdsub -- 1/31/2010 12:01:39 PM >


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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 12:15:21 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

Just out of interest here......why does anyone care whether or not someone's been to the moon?

Surely there's enough going on on earth to keep people occupied?


If we do not strive to the stars we will eventually be doomed to extinction...we can do both at the same time don't you think?


I doubt it - human beings have the capacity to change with the environment.

I'm curious on what the objective is with such theories. Find 'the truth' - I doubt that - were people to find 'the truth' they'd be pretty pissed off because it's the puzzle that keeps people occupied.


I'm not talking about challenges on earth...I am talking extinction by asteroid or comet...or massive eruptions in the earths environment ...Nothing is permanent ...even our earth and our survival...If we have no refuge from the future other than our speck in the universe we will be gone and forgotten on the comic scale in the blink of an eye.

I believe it is of the greatest importance that we pursue space travel even in dire times.

Butch



I'll settle for a decent next 50 years Butch (in my corner of the world) and leave the survival of the species to others. Extinction by asteroid/the evil ones/atheism/darth vadar/the islamo fascists/the commies.......same thing ain't it?



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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 12:21:27 PM   
kdsub


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I don't want to hijack the thread on this subject...but if we all thought like you then there never would be space travel...and there will come a time...there is no if... when we will be struck by an asteroid or an equal disaster.

I understand there is not a lot of money to go around but research is not that expensive.

Believing your lifetime is all that’s important is a little harsh on your children and your children’s children.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 2:28:44 PM   
DomKen


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The fact is that the Earth has been struck by asteroids large enough to utterly destroy our civilization and likely drive us to extinction many times. Pretending like it can't happen is incredibly dumb. It will happen and in geologic terms it is likely to happen soon. It is exceedingly unlikely that we could actually stop one of those monsters from hitting us so our best option as a species is to get truly independent colonies established elsewhere, be that Earth orbit, the Moon or Mars is really an engineering exercise.

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 3:22:37 PM   
TheHeretic


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quote:

ORIGINAL: DomKen

be that Earth orbit, the Moon or Mars is really an engineering exercise.



Well, it would loom pretty large for the accountants, too.

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That's why people with no sense of humor have such an inflated sense of self-importance.


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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 4:11:52 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't want to hijack the thread on this subject...but if we all thought like you then there never would be space travel...and there will come a time...there is no if... when we will be struck by an asteroid or an equal disaster.

I understand there is not a lot of money to go around but research is not that expensive.

Believing your lifetime is all that’s important is a little harsh on your children and your children’s children.

Butch



I can see how space exploration has increased technology. That has been one of the benefits. I dont see it being more of a benefit to our childrens future than research into medicene to cure or prevent disease though. The chance of an asteroid hitting earth and causing a disaster is miniscule compared to the lives that can be saved by medical research.

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 4:44:16 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't want to hijack the thread on this subject...but if we all thought like you then there never would be space travel...and there will come a time...there is no if... when we will be struck by an asteroid or an equal disaster.

I understand there is not a lot of money to go around but research is not that expensive.

Believing your lifetime is all that’s important is a little harsh on your children and your children’s children.

Butch



I can see how space exploration has increased technology. That has been one of the benefits. I dont see it being more of a benefit to our childrens future than research into medicene to cure or prevent disease though. The chance of an asteroid hitting earth and causing a disaster is miniscule compared to the lives that can be saved by medical research.



Yep we would be the healthiest extinct species our planet ever saw.

There are many needs on this earth…medical advances are just one of many. There is no reason this world can’t do both.

Butch



_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)
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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 4:47:50 PM   
kdsub


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I think it would be a better purpose for the UN to recruit, finance and coordinate space exploration than peace keeping…something they truly are inept at. At least they would be doing something for the entire world just not those with influence.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to kdsub)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 4:52:45 PM   
Politesub53


Posts: 14862
Joined: 5/7/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

I don't want to hijack the thread on this subject...but if we all thought like you then there never would be space travel...and there will come a time...there is no if... when we will be struck by an asteroid or an equal disaster.

I understand there is not a lot of money to go around but research is not that expensive.

Believing your lifetime is all that’s important is a little harsh on your children and your children’s children.

Butch



I can see how space exploration has increased technology. That has been one of the benefits. I dont see it being more of a benefit to our childrens future than research into medicene to cure or prevent disease though. The chance of an asteroid hitting earth and causing a disaster is miniscule compared to the lives that can be saved by medical research.



Yep we would be the healthiest extinct species our planet ever saw.

There are many needs on this earth…medical advances are just one of many. There is no reason this world can’t do both.

Butch




So what do you envisage ? Mass evacuation to a safe planet ? We both know that will never be a possibility.

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 5:29:30 PM   
kdsub


Posts: 12180
Joined: 8/16/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


So what do you envisage ? Mass evacuation to a safe planet ? We both know that will never be a possibility.


No I envision colonization…first some of the planets or moons of our own system…then moving out to the nearest stars with inhabitable planets.

Then if earth were destroyed at least the species would survive.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 1/31/2010 7:03:36 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SL4V3M4YB3

Gravity is a weak force in some respects and takes little to overcome but when considering the motion of objects it is always considered as one of the biggest factors causing retardation of motion. The flag on earth falls flat when no wind is present so you can’t easily see how the strain energy is dissipated throughout the surface of the flag as the material finds equilibrium in terms of the free motion of the flag in one direction (due to an existing applied force) versus the horizontal resistance offered by the flag pole fixed in space (unable to move).

You have to imagine, some can’t easily do that because gravity is one of the first things a child gets to grips with in terms of understanding how objects move as the result of an applied force.


Man, Mythbusters blew this, and other moon landing myths, away last year.  It's vacuum that allows it to happen.

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 2/1/2010 8:11:04 AM   
Musicmystery


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These are some of my favorite parts. Thing is, the kooks have real world dangerous consequences:

The Protocols Of The Elders Of Zion

These texts are often cited as proof that Jewish leaders were planning to take over the world in the early 20th century. The Protocols were at the core of the anti-Jewish fervor that sprang up between the world wars, and the rumors are still alive. Aaronovitch cites an Iranian professor who claimed the movie Meet the Fockers was related, in part, to the Protocols — even though the Protocols have been proven to be a hoax numerous times.

Sept. 11

Some members of the 9/11 Truth movement claim the United States government was actually responsible for the terrorist attacks. The conspiracy that then-President George W. Bush helped take down the twin towers is also popular outside the United States. In Pakistan, for instance, the belief is so widespread that a large section of Pakistani society takes it as fact.

ACADEMIC CREDIBILITY

The conspiracists work hard to give their written evidence the veneer of scholarship. The approach has been described as death by footnote. Accompanying the exposition of the theory is a dense mass of detailed and often undifferentiated information, but laid out as an academic text. Often the theory is also supported by quotations from non-conspiracist sources that almost invariably turn out to be misleading and selective. To give one characteristic example, David Ray Griffin's book about 9/11, The New Pearl Harbor, describes Thierry Meyssan as the head of an organization "which the Guardian in April 2002 described as 'a respected independent thinktank whose left-leaning research projects have until now been considered models of reasonableness and objectivity.'" This is a masterpiece in disingenuousness, given the full Guardian quote: "The French media has been quick to dismiss [Meyssan's] book's claims, despite the fact that Mr. Meyssan is president of the Voltaire Network, a respected independent thinktank whose left-leaning research projects have until now been considered models of reasonableness and objectivity. 'This theory suits everyone — there are no Islamic extremists and everyone is happy. It eliminates reality,' said Le Nouvel Observateur, while Liberation called the book 'The Frightening Confidence Trick . . . a tissue of wild and irresponsible allegations, entirely without foundation.' " Not the same thing at all.

Another example of this misuse of the mainstream media is the ascription of final, almost biblical authority to immediate and necessarily provisional news reports of an incident if they happen to demonstrate the inconsistencies that the conspiracists are seeking. Reporters in the West usually do the best they can in frightening and confused circumstances, but early explanations of major disasters will contain much that turns out to be mistaken or speculative. Similarly, the passing opinions of journalists are given the status of indisputable truth. In The New Pearl Harbor, Griffin questions the survival of evidence from the planes that crashed into the World Trade Center, using an article in the Guardian as support: "As a story in the Guardian said, 'the idea that [this] passport had escaped from that inferno unsinged would [test] the credulity of the staunchest supporter of the FBI's crackdown on terrorism.' " In fact, this was not a report but the passing opinion of a columnist, Anne Karpf, who had no more knowledge about what might or might not have emerged from the Twin Towers than had any other columnist in north London.

A final polish is given to the conspiracists' illusion of authority by the use of what is imagined to be secret service or technical jargon, as though the authors had been in recent communication with spies or scientists. Interesting words and phrases include "psyops" (short for "psychological operations"), "false flag," and more recently "wet disposal," meaning assassination.


JUST ASKING QUESTIONS

Since 2001, a primary technique employed by more respectable conspiracists has been the advocation of the "It's not a theory" theory. The theorist is just asking certain disturbing questions because of a desire to seek out truth, and the reader is supposedly left to make up his or her mind. The questions asked, of course, only make sense if the questioner really believes that there is indeed a secret conspiracy.

AND....some of the comments people left after the article are....um.....interesting:

Ordinary people are living their lives, they don't have time to investigate. Journalists, however, have a duty to report facts and ask hard questions. NPR not only dropped the ball themselves, now they're going out of their way to marginalize the independent researchers who are doing the work they should have done.

NPR -- it's not too late to redeem yourselves! How about a whole 'This American Life' about holes in the official 9/11 story? What's the worst that could happen? I doubt they'd send Ira Glass to Guantanamo.




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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 2/1/2010 12:27:16 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


So what do you envisage ? Mass evacuation to a safe planet ? We both know that will never be a possibility.


No I envision colonization…first some of the planets or moons of our own system…then moving out to the nearest stars with inhabitable planets.

Then if earth were destroyed at least the species would survive.

Butch



Pie in the sky Im afraid. It just isnt feasible. Who decides who gets saved or who dies. So many people, so few rockets.

Just let me know when the next bus to Saturn leaves then Butch. I will go pack my case.

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 2/1/2010 2:40:08 PM   
pahunkboy


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Well Gee.

I could do a thread- that poo smells stinky.

And most would agree.

So- ok- you win.



(...maybe)

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 2/1/2010 2:48:08 PM   
kdsub


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

quote:

ORIGINAL: kdsub

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53


So what do you envisage ? Mass evacuation to a safe planet ? We both know that will never be a possibility.


No I envision colonization…first some of the planets or moons of our own system…then moving out to the nearest stars with inhabitable planets.

Then if earth were destroyed at least the species would survive.

Butch



Pie in the sky Im afraid. It just isnt feasible. Who decides who gets saved or who dies. So many people, so few rockets.

Just let me know when the next bus to Saturn leaves then Butch. I will go pack my case.


You're not getting me...this is about survival of the species...not earth...and the knowledge gained during the research for space exploration may enable earth to deflect a danger. Every new discovery was someone’s pipe dream.

Butch


_____________________________

Mark Twain:

I don't see any use in having a uniform and arbitrary way of spelling words. We might as well make all clothes alike and cook all dishes alike. Sameness is tiresome; variety is pleasing

(in reply to Politesub53)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 2/1/2010 2:54:02 PM   
Musicmystery


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We can't even fix health care or balance the budget.

Besides, I don't think there are other planets. It's a fiction constructed by the government to fund their conspiracies.




< Message edited by Musicmystery -- 2/1/2010 3:37:09 PM >

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 2/1/2010 3:36:25 PM   
Politesub53


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Butch Im getting you, I just dont agree, period.

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 2/1/2010 3:38:12 PM   
Musicmystery


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Speaking of conspiracies, notice how often that happens?

"You're missing my point" as if the point is self-evident, when reality is the other poster disagrees with that point?

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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 2/1/2010 3:52:52 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

Speaking of conspiracies, notice how often that happens?

"You're missing my point" as if the point is self-evident, when reality is the other poster disagrees with that point?


The other phrases used on here are lmao and fuk you...When thats said, I know Im winning the argument.


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RE: Debunking Conspiracy Theories In "Voodoo Histo... - 2/1/2010 4:30:15 PM   
SL4V3M4YB3


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Space 1999

We missed that deadline, we should have been storing toxic chemicals on the moon yonks ago.

_____________________________

Memory Lane...been there done that.

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