RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (Full Version)

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agirl -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/1/2010 11:38:05 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterK13

I ask this question because we all have a bad day where we cant get a task done no matter what because we simply have to much on our plate with work along with our personal lives and at times we have out bursts of anger because the stress of the day has gotten to us.

When a slave has such a day and snaps at you should you punish her/him or let it slide?

I have also come to wander if when you find your self letting things slide to much should you punish a slave out of principle for even the smallest offense, punish her/him for every offense at once, or inform her/him that you will be more firm and strict when enforcing the rules?



I dont know what other people *should* do........I only know what's tolerated or how they are handled in my relationship.

Even if I've had the utmost crap-filled day, he still doesn't tolerate me snapping and basically *taking it out* on him. He expects that I direct my frustration where it belongs.  That doesn't mean that I don't snap at times but he stops it immediately by pointing out what I'm doing. If I don't stop it after that, he'll end the conversation and try again later.

I'm not *punished* for snapping, he just removes himself. He's always there to talk and listen with concern and interest, but the moment I abuse that, he'll toddle off. He's never let his frustrations spill over onto me so I see no reason why he should either.

If he lets things slide, then that's simply down to him. If he can't be bothered to do his job, he can hardly expect me to do mine. He's in charge. It's rare enough, but it has happened..... In those cases he's noted it, noticed the effect and picked up the slack in the reins. I don't get *blamed* for it and I don't get *punished* because he took his eye off the ball briefly. Life goes back to NORMAL.

agirl



ForeverOwned -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/1/2010 11:59:50 AM)

We, are husband and wife since 1978 and we're human. We are going to have good days and abd days and good moments and bad moments. It's just a fact of life. i have a certain amount of leeway and so does he. We  try to do what works for us.



Nslavu -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/1/2010 12:02:29 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterK13

I ask this question because we all have a bad day where we cant get a task done no matter what because we simply have to much on our plate with work along with our personal lives and at times we have out bursts of anger because the stress of the day has gotten to us when a slave has such a day and snaps at you should you punish her/him or let it slide? I have also come to wander if when you find your self letting things slide to much should you punish a slave out of principle for even the smallest offense, punish her/him for every offense at once, or inform her/him that you will be more firm and strict when enforcing the rules?


I find that..., the crazy little snapping muffins find ways to punish themselves [:D]



[8D] Sometimes denial of your punishment style is punishment. I'd say it's a moment to moment call, so yes to all of your assertions; within some boundary of D wisdom, and if you can't access wisdom because of all the noise, cage her up, shut her up and find some you time to decompress.... then ...




derangedmaniac -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/1/2010 12:05:59 PM)

You're not out to scar your slave. If they didn't do something because of something genuine happened... Usually, a GOOD slave will obey. If they do not obey, then there's cause for alarm. slaves that disobey often.. something's up-- whether they're not happy with the relationship, etc...



chamberqueen -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/1/2010 2:28:36 PM)

I am normally a very good slave - respectful, obedient, considerate - until my blood sugar dips too low.  I warned my Master about this before we ever met in person and didn't have an episode of it for over a year and a half, but he couldn't believe the change it made in me.  Instead of chastising me he helped me to get some food, and I hid from him while I ate and gave myself a few minutes to get myself under control.

He would have been within his rights to punish me yet he knew it was totally foreign to how I normally behaved.  Yes, there are definitely times to let things slide, especially if they are totally out of character.  There could be a physical problem, an overload of stress, or any number of things.  However, it it starts to become a pattern instead of a once in a while situation then it needs to be nipped in the bud.  Only you can know your partner well enough to see the difference.



Surrenderwithin -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/1/2010 3:19:58 PM)

I personally do not believe in a punishment dynamic at all. My Master does however, and to that I yield. I trust that he has my best interest at heart and follow where he leads.

I am not allowed to "let me stress get to me and snap". He expects me to handle stress and frustration in an adult like fashion and in a healthy constructive manner. I am allowed to share my stress with him and inform him if I feel the need for a time out or some down time. I am also expected to yield to his decision in regard to that decision.



stella41b -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/4/2010 3:13:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterK13

I ask this question because we all have a bad day where we cant get a task done no matter what because we simply have to much on our plate with work along with our personal lives and at times we have out bursts of anger because the stress of the day has gotten to us when a slave has such a day and snaps at you should you punish her/him or let it slide? I have also come to wander if when you find your self letting things slide to much should you punish a slave out of principle for even the smallest offense, punish her/him for every offense at once, or inform her/him that you will be more firm and strict when enforcing the rules?


Anger to me is weakness and in a stressful situation I feel we all have a choice whether to recognize that anger and internalize it into a more positive emotion, such as passion, or to just not give a monkey's and let it out as anger.

It depends on what you want to project out to other people, whether it be 'I'm weak, I can't cope, and I just don't give a shit anymore' or 'I'm stressed, I'm struggling, just let me get on top of this.'

Now I understand that people can be weak, that we can be stressed, that we can find ourselves in situations which defeat us, and that we can lose our self-control.

However I refuse to be in a relationship with anyone who includes anger within the range of acceptable emotions they can direct at someone, and especially so in a D/s or authority transfer type relationship.

I personally believe that it isn't punishment, or discipline, or correction that's needed here, but communication. If you have a punishment dynamic in your relationship that's fine, but surely when both of you are in control of your emotions and behaviour.

I personally feel that sometimes this is a popular misconception about the meaning behind the word 'control' in a D/s or M/s dynamic. Giving up control or having control in a D/s or M/s sense relates to how two people interact and how the relationship is developed or maintained. However having control of your emotions and behaviour to me is the hallmark of being a mature adult.



SimpleSoulUK -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/4/2010 4:15:17 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

The first step is stop.  The second is communicate.  Absolutely NOTHING should be determined without understanding the situation thoroughly.  I have missed deadlines due to being sick, responsibilities with my home or the kids, etc.  I have also missed deadlines because I procrastinated, forgotten, or just plain didn't wanna.  These are two totally different sets of circumstances.  The third step is to THINK.  Get past your own emotion and feelings of being affronted and really look at the slave's situation and motivations.  Was this intentional?  Is it a repeat offense?  Does it really matter and affect you, her, the relationship, etc significantly and negatively?  What is going to best resolve the issue?  Were your expectations clear and reasonable?  How is the slave already responding to your disappointment?  The next step is to explain what you plan to do about the situation and why.  Discipline, punishment, absolution, etc should not come out of the clear blue sky.  She needs to understand your reasoning even if she doesn't agree with it.  The last is to do exactly as you say you will including any prices you put on future behavior.  If she can't count on you to do as you say, then she has no idea where the boundaries are or what your expectations of her really are.  Discipline and punishment need never occur in the heat of the moment or in an out of control frame of mind.  To my mind, that is simple abuse.  Reasoned and careful meted out consequences are far more effective in the long term and reduce the possibility of doing or saying something you will regret.

lovingpet


What she said!



OsideGirl -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/4/2010 7:30:09 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP

Punishment won't help them cope better with stress next time.
Finding out what happened and helping them problem solve plus find better coping mechanisms will.
Absolutely. And I'll also add, that menopausal hormones sometimes leave me feeling like I'm standing outside myself, watching and saying..."damn, where did that come from?" Things just bubble up unexpectedly.



CNJDom -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/4/2010 9:28:56 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterK13

I ask this question because we all have a bad day where we cant get a task done no matter what because we simply have to much on our plate with work along with our personal lives and at times we have out bursts of anger because the stress of the day has gotten to us when a slave has such a day and snaps at you should you punish her/him or let it slide? I have also come to wander if when you find your self letting things slide to much should you punish a slave out of principle for even the smallest offense, punish her/him for every offense at once, or inform her/him that you will be more firm and strict when enforcing the rules?


First as you probably know right now, punishment is not always if ever a good way to do things.  Taking the higher road and also taking charge of the situation when it becomes challenging such as you outlined above.  It's time to step back and take a look at the cause and adjust and adapt.  Give a few minutes for unwinding, decompressing, and minimalize the confrontational potentials until each of you are in a better condition. 

It is the responsibility of both of you if you both are having a rough day to work together on making that bad day end when you get home.  In an example:  I know that there will be times when I come home and my submissive will be coming in later from an absolutely horrible day.  I would in that instance see how she is when she gets home (I will certainly cook for us both if I get home first instead of waiting for her to do "her duty" on top of all the other crap she's had to deal with before getting home).  If she is truly in a bad state, then I'm going to send her to the bath while I finish cooking, and set up things...she will want to do the clean up afterwards I'm sure of that.  But this will give her a chance to unwind, and I will have provided myself with a content and refreshed submissive that will be able to act in a manner that makes her and myself happy.  By working together, we'll both have time with the different hats that we all have to wear:  employee, submissive, dominant, parent, student, etc.  and avoid problems.  Peace and tranquility is a good thing!

Punishment really isn't needed in a D/s relationship as much as people assume it needs to be.  Guidance and patience with authority and respect will get you further than punishment will in many cases.  But for some that part of the dynamic can be rewarding if you're both into it...but that really wouldn't be punishment per se.  The best way to correct problems is to take the higher road and provide the environment of change and learning through positive reinforcement where the desire to change comes from wanting to change and not just being punished into it.  Just a thought...



ServeYourMaster1 -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/4/2010 2:54:37 PM)

Unless you set a consistent example how can the slave understand what is expected.  If you want to be in control you cant allow things to slide.  Is the slave testing you to see how far he/she can go?

Often emotional outbursts are a cry for attention or help.  Are you able to communicate openly with your slave?



winterlight -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/4/2010 4:52:01 PM)

Agrees with Oside...



NorthernGent -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/6/2010 1:35:50 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

The first step is stop.  The second is communicate.  Absolutely NOTHING should be determined without understanding the situation thoroughly.  I have missed deadlines due to being sick, responsibilities with my home or the kids, etc.  I have also missed deadlines because I procrastinated, forgotten, or just plain didn't wanna.  These are two totally different sets of circumstances.  The third step is to THINK.  Get past your own emotion and feelings of being affronted and really look at the slave's situation and motivations.  Was this intentional?  Is it a repeat offense?  Does it really matter and affect you, her, the relationship, etc significantly and negatively?  What is going to best resolve the issue?  Were your expectations clear and reasonable?  How is the slave already responding to your disappointment?  The next step is to explain what you plan to do about the situation and why.  Discipline, punishment, absolution, etc should not come out of the clear blue sky.  She needs to understand your reasoning even if she doesn't agree with it.  The last is to do exactly as you say you will including any prices you put on future behavior.  If she can't count on you to do as you say, then she has no idea where the boundaries are or what your expectations of her really are.  Discipline and punishment need never occur in the heat of the moment or in an out of control frame of mind.  To my mind, that is simple abuse.  Reasoned and careful meted out consequences are far more effective in the long term and reduce the possibility of doing or saying something you will regret.

lovingpet


Lovingpet - just out of curiosity here - why is it assumed that a dominant must go through this process of continually understanding behaviour and managing it?

Think of this like a car; a car is there to make your life easier. In the event it is constantly breaking down then it will develop into a pain in the arse and perhaps you will call it a day and look for a new car. Now where you're talking of teething problems in a new relationship then I can see your point - but at some point life has to move to an amicable state of affairs to make it worthwhile.

Life is too short to be constantly monitoring someone to bring out the best in them.



DesFIP -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/6/2010 4:54:55 PM)

No, never. Who cares if she just learned her sister has inoperable cancer. She should still be naked on her knees like always.

It's a relationship. Between people and not programmable robots. If you can't deal with people having problems that affect them and their behavior, go spend the money for the robot instead. Because those are your choices.



crazyml -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/7/2010 1:22:43 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: aldompdx

One in control should have the capacity to adapt to varying circumstances, and the humility to apply compassion for certain circumstances. Rigidity and conceptuality can be thinking small.


Spot on.

If a sub snaps or lashes out uncharacteristically my first reaction is most likely to be to ask "what is wrong?"

Personally, if a sub is given a task to do, but can't do it because of a genuine reason then I'm unlikely to punish.

That said, I've played with a few sub gals who love the idea of an impossible task coupled with the inevitable punishment.

To be honest... the basic rule is "apply common sense"



NorthernGent -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/7/2010 3:52:20 AM)

I'm sure you appreciate that understanding/compassion with regard to a close relative is a given - and that's not what I'm talking about at all.

Edited to add: for clarity's sake - what? you've had a bad day at work? it happens to the best of us - and you need to come to terms with it rather than use it as an excuse to behave unacceptably. Robots? There are plenty of women out there who are capable of managing their affairs.



LillyoftheVally -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/7/2010 4:05:58 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Edited to add: for clarity's sake - what? you've had a bad day at work? it happens to the best of us - and you need to come to terms with it rather than use it as an excuse to behave unacceptably. Robots? There are plenty of women out there who are capable of managing their affairs.


I agree in part, we all have a bad day and we all have ways of coping with it. If as a person you get home and want to have a long bath and then you will come out of said bath refreshed calm and ready to carry on then it would be near on stupid for the dominant to do something that stops that ritual.

I do not think that it is about continuously reassessing situations it is about both partners getting used to each others quirks and adapting to them. The submissive has just as much of a part in that too, knowing what will help their partner without needing to be told.



Phoenixpower -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of principle? (2/7/2010 4:40:49 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: MasterK13
at times we have out bursts of anger because the stress of the day has gotten to us when a slave has such a day and snaps at you should you punish her/him or let it slide?


Now, I haven't met my potential Dom in person yet, so it is only what he said and not what I was able to experience with him yet. However, in general he appears quite stable mood wise and recently we had at some point a situation (don't remember what it was about) where he said he would restrain me and get back to punish me later, when his emotions would have been cooled down (wasn't anything major so would not be something where it appeared to me to leave me restrained for ages).

However to him, thankfully, it seems to be very important not to act out of anger when he would punish for whatever reason.

Also a while ago we had once a little bigger clash where it is obvious that our cultural differences came on light in regards to one topic and I did not take his comment to change the topic seriously enough and so he snapped.

However, we both decided independently to take a little break at that moment and both reflected on what had been said and talked about it, where he admitted that he had let me been too playful lately and so it is not that surprising that I did not take it too serious when he did not want to continue that topic. On the other hand he also said, and I have no doubt about that, that in person I would have heard him and backed off.

Nevertheless it was refreshing to see that he does reflect and sees his part as well and not just dumbs convenviently the blame onto me thinking that he would have had no contribution to that little moment we had...and I simply know now what topic not to touch too easily [8|] and would just have to learn that this aspect would be a huge difference to the culture I grew up in (Germany) and the culture he lives in (America)...after all...thats part of getting to know each other [8|]

That being said...he got my concern about the topic we had and does not disagree as such to my point I made...nevertheless...it rised a bit his emotions...and after all...that wasn't too bad to learn more about what had affected him decades ago,too (which I did not know when I dared to start that topic)...a potential Master...who is still human...love it [:)]

However...since then I did once touch another topic he did not like (as I dared to say that I hope that Obama manages to change the health care) and he seems to have thought that last time I did not get it when he asked me to stop the topic and reframed it with "bite your tongue."

Well...that time I got it...[:D] and I loved it to see him being creative enough to try to get his message through a different way after it failed to reach me last time though that does not make me change my mind about it [:)]

I doubt, that in real life, a Master with anger issues would last long with me...and IF it would then he would not get much out of me as he would only receive basic service ... so he would lose out himself at the end.[8|]



NorthernGent -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/7/2010 10:18:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: LillyoftheVally

I agree in part, we all have a bad day and we all have ways of coping with it. If as a person you get home and want to have a long bath and then you will come out of said bath refreshed calm and ready to carry on then it would be near on stupid for the dominant to do something that stops that ritual.



I agree. It's very human to have a bad day - though the onus is on the individual to deal with the issue responsibly - which in my book is thinking it through in your own head (first and foremost) and asking for advice secondly. But definitely not throwing a tantrum.

And ultimately the easier you make someone's life the far more attractive you will be to them.

Really - it's just behaving like an adult and having respect for your partner.



LillyoftheVally -> RE: When punishing are there times when u should let it go & at times should u punish out of princip (2/7/2010 10:24:16 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
Really - it's just behaving like an adult and having respect for your partner.


As is most things to be honest



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