RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you?

RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (Full Version)

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littlewonder -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/2/2010 5:30:50 PM)
quote: whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not Yes I do. For me it's a large part of being with someone in a relationship. I want to feel that emotion. It makes me feel alive and cared for, it makes me feel special to him. I think it helps to keep a relationship alive with the little surprises, it keeps the fire and passions burning. quote: how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings It's not the only thing in a long term relationship for me but it does play a large part. I can't be in a relationship without it but I want the entire picture, I want all his emotions and feelings, romantic ones being one of them. quote: what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that I can't submit to someone I don't love. It's as simple as that. If I don't love you and we're not in a relationship then submission just isn't going to happen. We're just friends at the very most and I don't surrender to and/or fuck my friends.

BOUNTYHUNTER -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/2/2010 5:36:03 PM)
Very LadyD is the love of my life the most precious thing in my life..bounty

cpK69 -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/2/2010 5:55:29 PM)
~fr~ I’ve been thinking about this thread since I made my first post. I’ve decided that I need to redefine what romance means to me. Before I was thinking it is the frilly stuff; things customarily given on ‘special occasions’ or in an attempt to make an average occasion special. Now, I can see it as intimately expressing an interest, in a SO’s interests. Doesn’t have to be all ‘deck the halls’, just personal and sincere; I think.[8\|] edited to add; that sort of thing would be nice; not something I'm used to experiencing a lot of; and not sure I'd know what to do with a lot of it, but willing to give it a whirl. Kim

lucylucy -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/2/2010 6:38:24 PM)
So many interesting, thoughtful responses! Thanks, everyone. A few more thoughts I've had, inspired by some of the responses . . . quote: ORIGINAL: LaTigresse I don't much care about romantic love. To me, it is a shallow thing, full of false expectations built on poor or non communication. I do not hold much value for romance. What I need from most of my relationships is a different and more lasting love. A love that does not need sappy cards, birthdays and anniversaries remembered always, romantic dinners and scheduled date nights. I really like this distinction between romantic love and the second type you describe. I think what I was saying in my op is that I had the first type with my ex and have the second type with my owner. quote: ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika I am also a sensual sadist. Plainly, I get aroused from teasing and torturing a man and watching him squirm, his discomfort and vulnerability bringing out a very cruel and lustful, yet paradoxically loving, creature in me. I don't fetishise the man, but rather, find all of this even more pleasurable and natural when I'm with a strong, intelligent gentleman that I know intimately and love. . . . But when all the flirting is said and done, I would rather live all of this within the realm of a relationship. What lovely intimacy this all creates! I have never experienced love making that brings mind, soul and body together than the lovemaking that includes power exchange with sadistic pain and pleasure. I could never do the cruel and wicked things I do to a man I didn't adore. I would feel like a monster. I mean yes I've played with boys who were play subs, but I was terribly fond of them, and it never went as far as with the ones I've adored. LadyAngelika, the part of your post that I excerpted here helped me realize that for me, the intimacy of M/s totally trumps the romance of Hallmark-card love. Also, I just love the way you articulate the importance of adoration in your dynamic. That's beautiful. I would say my owner and I adore each other. quote: ORIGINAL: agirl In my M/s relationship, I rarely think about whether I love or not. I've known him for over 10 years, I never fell in love and other words seem far more applicable and accurate than * love, such as worship, adore, idolize, trust, respect. So no, it doesn't matter much. I've been with him for a very long time, that could be seen as successful...but where love* comes into it, I really couldn't tell you. I haven't a clue whether he loves me or not. How would I know? By him saying it? I value many things that he gives me.....care, consistant interest, attention and concern, affection, control.....I'm not sure that that means that he loves me so it doesn't figure in it. It signifies that he cares for me a great deal. If he said he loved me, not a single thing would change .....so it's irrelevant and insignificant. agirl, I love the frankness of your response. My owner and I do say "I love you," but it's not nearly as meaningful as when I say "I'm yours" or he says "you're mine." If we stopped saying "I love you," I doubt anything in our relationship would change, so like in your relationship, I think it's irrelevant and insignificant. quote: ORIGINAL: ResidentSadist To me, successful TPE (Total Power Exchange) requires complete trust and commitment. It has to run both ways or neither will gain it. You must commit to both your role in the relationship and each other. If you are not committed to exchanging all physical, mental and emotional dynamics, then it isn't a total exchange is it? Mutual trust requires mutual exposure. Exposure is vulnerability. Vulnerability proves trust. Trust inspires love and makes surrender and control possible. If you are to succeed at a 100% power exchange, there is no room for secrets or privacy on either part under any pretense. My power to control comes from completely exposing who I am, not from false invulnerability created by guarding my exposure to you. This reminded me that one of the aspects of stereotypical romantic love that has always irritated me is the idea that a woman needs to remain mysterious and unpredictable in some way; in other words, she should never completely expose who she is to her lover. quote: ORIGINAL: KnightofMists . . . But it comes down to how I love and how I expect to be loved. I am not looking for a love that is created because of what I do... but a love for who I am. Yes! That's part of what I was trying to articulate. quote: ORIGINAL: heartcream Op you say you tell your man everyday that "I am yours." That is pretty romantic to me. I see your point, but when I say "I am yours," I mean it in a property/ownership way, not a romantic "I'm in your heart and you're in mine" kind of way. It's probably a distinction that means something to me because of my context. quote: ORIGINAL: cpK69 I like the topic, and appreciate the op being presented in a manner that was easy for me to respond to. : ) Aw, thanks, Kim.

seekingOwnertoo -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/2/2010 7:13:24 PM)
quote: whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not Often, belief in something requires a logical proof. Therefore if one accepts that the following quote provided by Resident Sadist has a basis in fact ... quote: -=LOVE AND SURRENDER=- The gap between ego and spirit is unavoidable. It would seem impossible to close this gap, since spirit and ego are opposites. Bringing them together is achieved through surrender, and the only force that can accomplish this is love. Surrender, then, is the next phase on loves journey, which you enter as soon as you choose to be in a relationship. -Deepak Chopra Then it is very possible to build a philosopically sound argument that true love can develop between a Dominant and a Submissive which results in this quote provided by Lady Angelika ... quote: I think that when I'm involved with a man, even if he is submissive to me, I surrender to him and the dynamic just as much. I've been called a hopeless romantic with friends. But that is the part of me that likes extreme sensations: sadomasochism, mad love, extreme rollercoasters ;-) I need to feel alive. While developing the actual logical proof, is about as exciting as watching paint dry. The euphoria of the extreme sensations that Lady A eludes to is not. Yes, i will agree that it is an extremely rare phenomena. But i can tell You based on my own experience, that it does exist. Finding it again ... is the challenge! Now, Brian, Stewie ... back to our debate in the Philosophers Forum. ;-)

Nslavu -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/2/2010 7:44:59 PM)
quote: I've been thinking about the concept of love lately. Is it possible you've transcended the 'normal' human preconception of love? When love is laid bare, the commercial and romantic trappings mean very little and the 'connection' in synchronicity comes clearly into focus. I've never personally felt that a billion humans doing the same thing at xmas or valentines etc., meant anything more than they are billion humans not thinking things through and accepting the BS feed from robot central. Some people transcend the monochromatic march of stupidity and that makes me smile. Good thread topic.

sravaka -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/3/2010 2:10:10 AM)
~FR, after a read through~ Great topic, lucylucy... this is something I stew about myself, on and off. "Romantic love" is not important to me either, not least because I've never been entirely certain what "romance" or "romantic love" means. I too think first of the hallmark stuff, or of people on vanilla dating sites who telegraph their "romantic" qualities through phrases like "candlelight dinners and long walks on the beach." Not that these aren't pleasant activities, but what on earth to they have to do with love? It seems to me to be about surrounding atmospherics rather than core emotions.... and thus I have little interest in it for it's own sake. Another distinction people make is between love and being "in love". I don't get that one either. The only time in my life I felt "in love" I was 20, carrying on with a 35 yr old in a foreign country. We could only communicate up to a point, but we made up for that by gazing into each other's eyes a lot, etc. It was all very poignant and tragic (I had to go back after a year), and I was sure, pure and elevated and never to be equalled again in my life, blah blah blah. I mourned for a good 2 years afterward-- a long time, when you are 21. Then I met up with him again, perhaps 10 years later, and was completely stymied. He was (presumably still is) a lovely man, but we had so little in common, and by that time I cared much more about little things like being able to talk to the person you are with. I see it now as having been founded on a combination of chemistry/lust and mutually reinforcing fantasy/escapism. The emotions were real, and I'm glad to have felt them.... but somehow their link to practical/real world reality was not. (I'd be very curious to hear how actual grown-ups feel when they are "in love" vs. when they merely "love".) At this point (early 40s) there are many people I love, in many ways. There are perhaps different intensities at different times..... but I cannot view even the most intense intensity as qualitatively different ("in love") from other intensities ("love"). "Love" is all made of the same stuff. I feel awful when the other guy makes claims about "in love" in some exclusive way from his side. I can't reciprocate it, don't really understand what he's talking about. I may choose to be with him exclusively, but it's not going to kill feelings I have for other people, past, present or future. On love and D/s... I can't submit without love (of one intensity or another) from my side.... but I really liked the way A Girl put it above... How do you know what the other guy feels? I can only act on what I feel + how he behaves. What he says or whether he buys flowers matters very little. The practical kinds of connectedness matter very much. I doubt this was useful in the end, but I'll toss it out.

lucylucy -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/3/2010 7:04:19 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: sravaka At this point (early 40s) there are many people I love, in many ways. There are perhaps different intensities at different times..... but I cannot view even the most intense intensity as qualitatively different ("in love") from other intensities ("love"). "Love" is all made of the same stuff. I feel awful when the other guy makes claims about "in love" in some exclusive way from his side. I can't reciprocate it, don't really understand what he's talking about. I may choose to be with him exclusively, but it's not going to kill feelings I have for other people, past, present or future. Hmmm, I like your point about love being love--different flavors of it not being qualitatively different. I keep hearing people (not on this thread--I mean elsewhere) say that the love a parent has for a child is a special kind of love. For me, it isn't any different from the love I feel for my owner. Yes, I behave differently, very differently, with them, and my interactions with them are vastly different, but the love I feel for them isn't different. It's just love--very intense, but still, just love.

KnightofMists -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/3/2010 9:49:09 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy Hmmm, I like your point about love being love--different flavors of it not being qualitatively different. I keep hearing people (not on this thread--I mean elsewhere) say that the love a parent has for a child is a special kind of love. For me, it isn't any different from the love I feel for my owner. Yes, I behave differently, very differently, with them, and my interactions with them are vastly different, but the love I feel for them isn't different. It's just love--very intense, but still, just love. I suspect that such people see a difference because they are equating the type of love with actions/behaviors.

FukinTroll -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/3/2010 11:51:33 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lucylucy I'm curious about whether you believe in romantic love and why or why not how important romantic love is to you in a long term D/s relationship compared with other emotions and feelings what you value in a "successful" D/s relationship and where love figures into that 1. Absolutely! For me, YMMV, romantic love is the gateway to ecstasy. Beyond sex, companionship, conversation, et. al having the romantic loving energy with a partner intensifies all that we do. Companionship, casual or other is a wonderful thing, however where romantic love energy is a part of that relationship there is no greater drug, no greater feeling, no greater moment. 2. In the D/s dynamic romantic love is the holy grail that I am searching for. Unfortunately there are many cups that we encounter; some full, some half full, some empty but lacking the ability to meet my needs... the wants are often catered to, but the needs are lacking. Rather than invest in a relationship that will, one day, be found wanting, I'd rather hold out for the /s that I can have my need for romantic love met. 3. Hmmm... I think the above covered this one. YMMV

PainfullyCurious -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/4/2010 8:46:01 PM)
"P.S. If you think this is a stupid or boring topic, I invite you to protest by not posting to the thread rather than by calling me a stupid vapid bitch or telling me that this topic has been addressed before and I should use the "search" function. "  LMAO! I spent quite a few years with someone and while I have a lot of love for him, I don't think we ever had romantic love. He just kind of grew on me. He was sweet and had a lot of the qualities I was looking for in a partner. Our relationship was as smooth as silk. We never fought. He never mistreated me. I thought I was happy at times. I don't prefer drama. I think though, that when you spend time with someone and there is real romantic love, there is also some insecurity to a degree- and if the person treats you well you may discover over and over again that the insecurity is unfounded and ridiculous but it's still there. I certainly didn't miss the insecure feeling when I was with my last boyfriend, but at some point I realized I was missing something else... OK... So being an adult I'm embarrassed to admit I was reading New Moon when I realized I had been living without passion for quite some time and that I wanted it again... but truthfully that's when I realized. Young love and all that… So, romantic love is very important to me. Having not had it recently, and being new to bdsm it's kind of a double hit of vulnerability for me. It's hard and I hope I remember how much I longed for it when I really thought about it, because I have to admit that since nothing was "wrong" in my last relationship, I didn't notice what was missing right away. I'm hoping I don't wind up putting myself in a similar situation again just to be comfortable. I’d like to think I’ve learned something.

PainfullyCurious -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/4/2010 9:08:11 PM)
Now I am thinking about the last time I was in a relationship with romantic love... The man was not a Dom, but he surely liked to be in control. I swore there were times that he resented me because he thought his love for me was a weakness. I actually have a little bit of a fear now that I may run across a Dom who has issues with the loss of emotional control that can come with romantic love. Hopefully though, he will not be as repressed as that particular ex and can take it out on me in a sensually evil way. :o) Has anyone else had that problem? (LucyLucy, if you feel this is too far from the questions that you asked, I can take this to another thread- Just say the word. I thought though since its related maybe you’d be curious to know.)

GoddessAndGuys -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/4/2010 9:10:03 PM)
I am polyamorous, so I am open to having D/s relationships without it being boyfriend/girlfriend. In D/s relationships, the level of trust would lead to intimacy and intense emotions that (for me anyway) can have nothing to do with romance. The feelings would often lead to a type of love. I do want romantic love with someone at some point. I have my doubts about finding it, but hope that I will. I feel like it comes out of being highly compatible with someone on an emotional level. Overall, I do equate love and my partner being sub. I doubt I would feel loved without some submission. At least for a lot of people, when someone else touches them deeply and they fall in love. Other people might go through the actions and say the words, but they simply aren't romantics.

Phoenixpower -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/4/2010 9:13:53 PM)
WTF is romantic love [8\|][8\|][8\|] Sorry but nope...not in my life and I can only agree to LaTigresses view on page one... my current involvement is not based on love...its based on potential compatibility...on similar needs and desires...I don't need love with a partner...as in my experience it simply is overrated and abused far too much....so I am well off without it.[:)]

elleX -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/5/2010 2:55:28 AM)
hi i am NOT romantic at all, and so i would not be very rewarding for a romantic parnter , i pay much more attention to my needs ; belonging , trust and commitment I do even see romance stuff as superficial and sometime rigid expression of feelings that have poor way to be express elleX

ResidentSadist -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/5/2010 3:19:44 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: domiguy This is romantic love.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-H5XG5x1Fc Now that's giving a man the kind of love he can "feel". I had to watch it twice, sorta' made me all teary eyed. Dracula’s Lament by Jason Segal was awesome!!! Lyrics link

Andalusite -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/5/2010 8:14:58 AM)
It matters a great deal to me, not the trappings of flowers or chocolate or whatever, although they're nice, but the intimacy and emotional connection. I don't expect it to happen instantly, and for me, waiting to submit until they feel that way probably wouldn't work out very well. I very rarely react submissively toward someone. If we interacted only in vanilla ways for the first couple of months, I'd never develop a D/s connection, even if I were perfectly happy with bottoming to them.

maugseros -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/5/2010 3:54:31 PM)
quote: I am not sure what people mean when they say romantic love compared to how I see it. Op you say you tell your man everyday that "I am yours." That is pretty romantic to me. About exactly what I was going to say. "Romantic love" is very important to me... my love and lust are one. It's just that what I view as "romantic" is light years away from the traditional definition of romance. As an example.. I just saw a video of a guy cumming on a toothbrush and the woman brushing her teeth with him cum. I thought it was incredibly sexy and if she were my sub/slave I would have thought that was romantic as hell! But would probably be thought of more as discusting by your typical woman.

osf -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/5/2010 6:31:26 PM)
i'd rather have control and ownership than love i love miss cillie, i could never intentionally hurt her

takemeforyourown -> RE: how valuable is "romantic love" to you? (2/5/2010 8:53:19 PM)
This is such an interesting topic for me. I am in a vanilla marriage to the father of my children. I discovered my submissiveness during a short separation during a bad time in our marriage. To me, 'romance' means little. It feels good when my sweet husband buys me a pretty necklace and tells me he loves me, but it is nothing like the intensity I felt when I was completely at the mercy of my Dom while we were separated. That's just how I feel. If that makes me a bad person, I can accept that.

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