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need some thoughts on training - 3/25/2006 10:46:37 PM

devilwntdown

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline

first off, i want to say hi to all. i have come across something i havent had to deal with yet and need some opinions. i just met a young female that wants to get into the lifestyle as a sub/slave but not just for the sex. she is eager to be trained, but my concern is she has told me she has talked to a much older couple that has offered to train her. in talking to her, she conveyed she has no sexual attraction to them but is thinking about letting them train her. she has also let me know that she wishes to serve someone she loves and can build a relationship with. i would think that without fully knowing what training is about she might be headed for some trouble down the road. any thoughts would help greatly, ty.

Post #: 1

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 12:26:40 AM

BitaTruble

Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline

I'm a bit confused. Is this someone who wants to belong to you? If not, it's really not your place to interfer in her choices or to make assumptions about the couple who have offered to take her on. Sexual attraction is hardly necessary for power exchange relationships, common, but not necessary.

Celeste

_____________________________

"Oh, so it's just like
Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 2

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 12:40:34 AM

TheTopHat

Posts: 39
Joined: 3/12/2006
Status: offline

Call me old fashioned but I always think that a person should be trained by the one they wish to serve or at the worst by someone who is or has been their sub. It's not like there is 1 manual or system, how can anybody hope to train a sub to their dom/masters desires?

_____________________________

TheTopHat (and Cane)

Just my 2.31 cents (In Canada you see)

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 3

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 12:51:18 AM

slavejali

Posts: 2918
Status: offline

When Master is being mean to me, he sometimes threatens to send me off to "slave training school", he says they exist, i suppose they would work if they were given a list of issues to deal with the Master couldnt be bothered to handle *grin* ( I said that as a kinda joke Master).

But saying that, if a slave was just trained by someone who wasnt their Master, before they even had a Master, I dont know how well this would work because each Master is different, they like a slave to be they wish them to be, they might not want or like how someone else has trained them. Like there is no exact way for a slave to behave or things for a slave to do, its just according to each Masters preferences.

I know with me, there was a lot of *adjustment* for me from how I was previously "trained" if you like, to how and what Master likes now, if that makes sense.

(in reply to TheTopHat)

Post #: 4

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 2:50:27 AM

TheShadows

Posts: 403
Joined: 9/16/2004
From: Southern Illinois
Status: offline

Perhaps she is thinking she would get more out of being oriented in the basic ways of the Lifestyle by someone she isn't sexually attracted to. Instead of the focus possibly being on sex, as she said she's not interested in just the sex, the focus would really be on her learning her way around.

Just because she's interested in this couple "training" her, it doesn't necessarily mean that she's going to get into a long term commitment with them.

If this girl were a friend of mine, I'd encourage her in her personal growth, regardless of whether it was with me, or someone else.

_____________________________

"The reason the mainstream is thought of as a stream is because of it's shallowness." - George Carlin

"Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most..." - Ozzy Osbourne

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 5

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 3:05:34 AM

devilwntdown

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline

bitatruble, if your that confused, why did you even bother. shes new to it, she dont know if someones being on the level or trapping her. and yes she is showing interest in me.

i tend to agree with thetophat, first and formost, why on earth would someone want to train someone that would never serve them? she just dont know any better yet as we have just started talking. to me its just some poser that wants to use someone without any concern what so ever to what they are really doing to them. i have seen too many fall for that. i would never train someone that wouldnt serve me. they give a gift that should be protected, and its our job to see to the new ones are provided with information so they can make a proper choice. i just feel she needs to know there are very bad people out there and what to look for is all.

slavejali, ty for your input. thats one of my points, sub/slave training is for serving the master. and without her wanting them to be that, i can only see trouble. she would get put in a place she didnt want to be takin and hurt or scared for life. all it takes is one time. and i for one would expect something more than a thank you for using my time to train someone. people are not as honest as they used to be. no one does anything without wanting someting in return. and i feel someone wanting to train someone like that more then likely has something in mind for her that she clearly told me she dont want to happen.

in response to the shadows, there is enough things on line that i would direct her to study without putting herself in a bad spot

< Message edited by devilwntdown -- 3/26/2006 3:09:56 AM >

(in reply to slavejali)

Post #: 6

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 4:59:12 AM

kisshou

Posts: 2425
Joined: 2/11/2005
Status: offline

I think you should train her yourself.

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 7

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 6:38:59 AM

ExistentialSteel

Posts: 676
Joined: 1/18/2005
Status: offline

Devil, it could be that you are right about the couple wanting to use her, but you could also not want to see that she wants to try that. There is no doubt that many new subs end up being used outrageously in the guise of being taught how to be a sub. Yet, a large percentage want the exploitation at that particular time in their exploration. It is part of the excitement. What it boils down to is she is not sure whether she wants them to train her or you. You want it to be you. Good luck.

_____________________________

For those who are like Roman Candles leaving bright trails in the night sky while the crowd watches until the dark blue center light bursts into magnificent colors and the crowd goes, ahhhhhhhhhh.

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 8

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 6:49:02 AM

thetammyjo

Posts: 6322
Joined: 9/8/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilwntdown

first off, i want to say hi to all. i have come across something i havent had to deal with yet and need some opinions. i just met a young female that wants to get into the lifestyle as a sub/slave but not just for the sex. she is eager to be trained, but my concern is she has told me she has talked to a much older couple that has offered to train her. in talking to her, she conveyed she has no sexual attraction to them but is thinking about letting them train her. she has also let me know that she wishes to serve someone she loves and can build a relationship with. i would think that without fully knowing what training is about she might be headed for some trouble down the road. any thoughts would help greatly, ty.

I think all you can do is encourage her to explore on her own first and foremost.

Now, in 2006, there are ample books, events, and organizations one can turn to long before getting into a relationship.

If this woman is interested in training then she look for someone who focuses on training and would offer a training contract -- no ownership, not playing, not romantic involvement, just training. Such people do exist and they are not necessarily paid professionals. (I actually do this but only for a select few in whom I see potential as value members of the BDSM community)

Really though this isn't a question you can ask for her or even your place to guide her. Just let her know there are other resources and ask lots of questions. Be her friend in otherwords.

_____________________________

Love, Peace, Hugs, Kisses, Whips & Chains,

TammyJo

Check out my website at http://www.thetammyjo.com Or www.tammyjoeckhart.com

And my LJ where I post fiction in progress if you "friend" me at http://thetammyjo.livejournal.com/

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 9

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 7:05:25 AM

MrDiscipline44

Posts: 1776
Joined: 1/5/2005
Status: offline

I agree with kisshou, you should train this girl if the two of you are looking to have a relationship with this girl.

The only slave I know of that can leave the house of one Master and join the house of another and only need minimal training are Gorean slave (kajira). In general BDSM their is no standard of training for slaves. I feel there should be, but there isn't. So if she goes for training to this couple she may only be of use to this couple. She may come to you and you may find that everything they have taught her would have to be thrown out and you may have to start from scratch. You may also find that the opposite to be true as well. Hell, you may just live with anything they teach her for simplicities sake.

I say you ask questions about what this couples form of training is. What will they teach her? How long will it take from beginning to end? Will she be free to leave when it is done or is there some sort of contract? These are important questions. If she is turning to you for advise, don't be afraid to show your concern.

_____________________________

If you love somebody, you have to be willing to break them.

Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach.

Have you slapped your slave today?

(in reply to ExistentialSteel)

Post #: 10

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 7:10:52 AM

MHOO314

Posts: 3628
Joined: 9/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilwntdown

bitatruble, if your that confused, why did you even bother.

ouch dude, take it easy, you are new to CM and to the boards, you aren't always going to get the responses you want---she happens to be well respected here and a very good poster.

_____________________________

SLUTS: Southern Ladies Under Tremendous Stress...

Mistress Hathor

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 11

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 8:13:00 AM

Lordandmaster

Posts: 10943
Joined: 6/22/2004
Status: offline

What "opinions" do you think we can provide? Either take her for yourself or let the old couple have her. There's not much to discuss.

But this sounds like a game to me. Something tells me she's just jerking your chain. Otherwise she'd be at your house by now. Instead you're writing Collarme threads about her.

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 12

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 8:34:47 AM

GreedyEvilBych

Posts: 13
Joined: 11/27/2005
Status: offline

Did anyone else notice that only the so called"Male doms" on collarme ever mention sex? LOL. Sex is NOT necessary and should NOT be an issue ever in TPE. There are alot of men on here who pose as Dominants, and actually they know NOTHING of BDSM at all...some buddy of theirs somewhere in life lead them to believe that being a Dom means "kinky sex" so they slap on some leather and hit the internet cause they cant get a woman in real life. Im not saying that All of the male doms on CM feel this way...but I know I have been IMd by several switches, and Doms who even email ME...and I am a Domme! and its always something about sex....I just get so sick of it.

(in reply to Lordandmaster)

Post #: 13

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 9:14:05 AM

MistressDiane

Posts: 334
Joined: 2/5/2004
Status: offline

maybe she just wants some no hassle, no strings attached, noncommital experiences in what she perceives as a safe environment. It's a couple, she can get exposure to alot of different things (areas of play, different ways to serve etc.) from a males perspective and a females in one neat little package without having to feel pressured to make a commitment to "one" in particular...get my drift?? Although she's made mention of wanting to be trained by someone she's going to be in a relationship with, maybe just maybe she's smart enough to know that she's not yet ready to dive into that special relationship and wants to have a little taste of the things that are out there.

_____________________________

Ms. Diane
"..and they who danced were thought insane by those who refused to hear the music." ~Monet

*Suffer BayBeee!!!!!*

"My treasures do not sparkle or glitter, they shine in the sun and neigh in the night."

(in reply to GreedyEvilBych)

Post #: 14

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 9:27:16 AM

feylin

Posts: 182
Joined: 3/12/2005
Status: offline

Good afternoon:

I have had an experience similar to the description you describe this girl wanting to undertake and just wanted to say that, so far, all my dealings with the older couple who trained me have been fabulous.

My interest was expanded by the information I originally found online but I was still worried that maybe I was just living some highly-detailed fantasy life because I did not have cable t.v. So, I nervously went to my first local BDSM munch. There I met a wonderful couple and felt an immediate trust/kinship/bond with the Domme and a platonic fondness for her older husband, also a Dominant.

This opportunity to experience and explore with a couple that (while not attractive to me sexually) were friendly and knowledgeable seemed a safe and secure way to test my needs against my desires.   It has been exactly that. They have been kind and careful with me -- almost too careful, to my way of thinking sometimes. <grins>

In the beginning we spent time getting to know one another in strictly vanilla settings. When they first introduced me to their "dungeon," I remained fully clothed and the moment was friendly and conversational as they allowed me to ask any question concerning the wide array of floggers/canes/clamps/etc. displayed around the room. That was also my first opportunity to be bound to a cross which immediately sent me to another world (meaning, it honestly felt like the entire room fell away and all my troubles along with it.  While I know they continued talking to me, it felt like I was under water and their voices were muted and indiscernible.) In hindsight, I may have wanted to save that experience for my Master, but I honestly had no idea this type of thing could occur and would have laughed if anyone had told me it could happen to me. (On a side note: that feeling is highly addictive and I continue to try and experience it again, but no luck so far.)

This, for me, has been a wondeful exploration -- finding things I do like but never imagined (like breast bondage, wax, canes, etc.) and learning about some fears (like wooden paddles and plastic clothespins) -- in a safe and comforting environment without any of the emotional drama involved with a sexual submission that I truly believe I was not ready for during that initial very inexperienced, very naive time.

During my time with them I have had to be very careful because they are married and I do realize than any fun teasing or any impression of secrets could quickly cross a line and be construed as me trying to create discord in their marriage. I think we have all worked hard at being honest and communicating with one another to keep things friendly and fun. That would be an important point for anyone considering to engage in play with a married couple:  remain attentive and respectful to their committment even if that means keeping a certain emotional and sometimes physical distance between you and them.

Another advantage for me was being able to experience the difference between a Domme and Dom -- a great difference indeed in my experience. She was more sensual in her movements, more caring and I always ended up feeling very special and adored. He, on the other hand, just used me. <grins> Plain and simple, neither good nor bad. Just is what it is:  a good and valuable lesson. I am not promoting one sex over the other as far as dominants go, I promise. This is my one and only experience and would in no way reflect anyone else's experience. I should note that he was always concerned with my enjoyment as well, and loved introducing me to new sensations. Truly a good and thoughtful teacher. But it was the sense of being used that I was left with -- strictly my interpretation of it.

In the end it was not enough. The friendship is still there and I enjoy their company immensely, but the newness wore off in that upon realizing that I really do enjoy this (it is not just good stories on Literotica) I began to become depressed after playing because it was not emotional, it was not submission so much as friends getting together and I yearn for a deeper meaning for my submission. If that makes sense at all? I feel like I am not describing it adequately. I feel that I cannot grow, cannot explore a deeper need because there is no ...no something. <laughs> Something. Something important is missing.

I know that there are bad people in the world and determining that can be highly subjective when someone is marked as bad just because they have a different opinion than someone else.  We have to be careful with ourselves and make cautious decisions in this life, but we have to make them for ourselves.

In my own humble experience (and I still consider myself a novice), training with an older couple has been a fantastic journey that eventually was not enough. They taught, I learned, and it became time to move along with them having my eternal gratitude and affection for their friendship. Now when we talk and I try to explain my need to be a slave rather than a submissive, they have very strong opinions about my mental stability in wanting that type of relationship. <grins> BDSM is more play for them, so I do not think they understand my true desires. After their lecture, though, they smile and tell me that I will make the right choices for me...and, I will.

Since you appear to have sincere concern for her, it seems to me she has the best of both worlds. I hope it is a beautiful adventure for everyone involved.

Best wishes.

(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 15

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 9:40:19 AM

Wildfleurs

Posts: 1650
Joined: 9/24/2004
From: Connecticut
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilwntdown

first off, i want to say hi to all. i have come across something i havent had to deal with yet and need some opinions. i just met a young female that wants to get into the lifestyle as a sub/slave but not just for the sex. she is eager to be trained, but my concern is she has told me she has talked to a much older couple that has offered to train her. in talking to her, she conveyed she has no sexual attraction to them but is thinking about letting them train her. she has also let me know that she wishes to serve someone she loves and can build a relationship with. i would think that without fully knowing what training is about she might be headed for some trouble down the road. any thoughts would help greatly, ty.

It depends on the trainer. In my experience very few people are actually equipped to train people, but there are some who are. It sounds like you want her for yourself, so I hardly think you are the proper one to evaluate whether these people actually have the appropriate skills set and approach to be good trainers.

To me a quality trainer is someone who enjoys teaching people for the experience and personal growth that they will see in the person and experience personally. They also have the skills set necessary to actually teach the trainee specific, durable, transferable skills that can be objectively assessed. So to me, teaching someone how to “become a better submissive” isn’t really training. But teaching someone how to communicate effectively, how to become more physically flexible and fit, and how to become more organized and handle someone else’s schedule on top of your own are specific skills that I think can be extremely valuable in submitting to someone.

If you don’t use those skills, at least you have them, but quite frankly I definitely can see the value in going to an objective outsider who is just interested in seeing you attain certain skills and can grade you on your ability to learn those skills and integrate them. But like I said, I think there are very few people that are able to do that and are interested in being a trainer.

C~

Edited to fix the weird formatting and add: I think its important to find out what people mean by training. Because I find its rare that they mean what I outlined in my post.

< Message edited by Wildfleurs -- 3/26/2006 9:43:39 AM >

_____________________________

"Just because you've always done it that way doesn't mean it's not incredibly stupid." -despair.com

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The heart of it all - http://www.wildfleurs.com
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(in reply to devilwntdown)

Post #: 16

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 11:01:44 AM

LuckyAlbatross

Posts: 19224
Joined: 10/25/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: thetammyjo
Really though this isn't a question you can ask for her or even your place to guide her. Just let her know there are other resources and ask lots of questions. Be her friend in otherwords.

But he wants more and wants justification to try and pull her away and convince her that it's better to with THIS wolf than the competition. Can't do that if you empower her to make an educated choice- she might not choose him.

_____________________________

Find stable partners, not a stable of partners.

"Sometimes my whore logic gets all fuzzy"- Californication

(in reply to thetammyjo)

Post #: 17

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 11:04:13 AM

devilwntdown

Posts: 8
Joined: 3/25/2006
Status: offline

thank you all so far for joining in the discussion. all of the input is pretty much what i expected to hear. to the ones who say its not my place to ask things for her, just stop and think if maybe others were like me, it might just cut down on the people that are into it for all the wrong reasons.

feylin, thank you for sharing your experiance. i would like for her to find her own way just as you have.

i dont care where she gets her training weather it be me or someone else. but i feel she should have the information to make a good choice. i think i should atleast nudge her in the direction of asking what kind of training would be involved.

lordandmaster,, "What "opinions" do you think we can provide?", hmmmmmmm, guess you had an opinion anyway, lol. but ty for it. granted there are no rules set in stone in this life we live, only personal ones that wont work for others. but the one rule i live by is i will not take something that is not given to me, for me that is where i find the source of energy, the giving of a gift freely upon me.

bottom line is i truly think in that there should be at least some kind of standard outline that someone new can follow till they know if its actually for them. i see it in every day vanilla life, no one will take responsibility for there own actions, let alone ones they know are wrong done by someone else. true ownership is given, never taken. and if you take something, take responsibilty for youself and those around you. the gift might just taste a little sweeter.

luckyalbatross, that couldnt be farther from the truth, only thing i want for her is to want to explore herself and the lifestyle more, has nothing to do with me. all im doing is looking out for her safety by giving her more info, that is my ONLY concern.

< Message edited by devilwntdown -- 3/26/2006 11:09:48 AM >

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 18

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 11:08:55 AM

perverseangelic

Posts: 2625
Joined: 2/2/2004
From: Davis, Ca
Status: offline

Maybe she feels this is a good introduction. I can definatly see that--one can experience the BDSM elements without the sex stuff getting in the way (which I think most will admit it can.) She can focus on deciding and seeing how the submissive bit fits for her without worrying she's going to fall in love and mess it up. (not saying love messes things up, but it -can- change the feel of the dynamic for new people).

Honestly, unless I were personally interested in this person -right at this moment- I'd encourage her to explore. I think it's good to get a chance to try things with different people, especially if someone is new. I wouldn't see this as her investing in training, so much as getting a feel for how she fits into bdsm.

~shrug~

_____________________________

~in the begining it is always dark~

(in reply to Wildfleurs)

Post #: 19

RE: need some thoughts on training - 3/26/2006 12:02:21 PM

amayos

Posts: 1553
Joined: 6/2/2004
From: New England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyEvilBych
Did anyone else notice that only the so called"Male doms" on collarme ever mention sex? LOL. Sex is NOT necessary and should NOT be an issue ever in TPE.

Since sex is the primal engine behind so many of our desires, it is often the first instinct to naturally manifest in our interests and expressions, regardless of dominant or submissive orientation. Your absolutism in the above statement seems overly broad, and ultimately, highly inaccurate for many who engage in this "lifestyle". Subtract sexuality from most of us and the landscape (including yours) would be unrecognizably different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyEvilBych
There are alot of men on here who pose as Dominants, and actually they know NOTHING of BDSM at all...some buddy of theirs somewhere in life lead them to believe that being a Dom means "kinky sex" so they slap on some leather and hit the internet cause they cant get a woman in real life.

Likewise, there are a lot of women and girls who post here as Dominants (and submissives), who in turn display an immense ignorance of theory and practice about BDSM in general, using the forum as nothing more than a means to pick up an overglorified boyfriend. I find it ironic that a $$$ ProDomme $$$ would be so willing to throw stones in this regard, when one really starts to consider what many would no doubt call her 'often less than authentic motive in the practice'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreedyEvilBych
Im not saying that All of the male doms on CM feel this way...but I know I have been IMd by several switches, and Doms who even email ME...and I am a Domme! and its always something about sex....I just get so sick of it.

It's unfortunately the price we all pay due to the human condition. Males are not alone in their ability to deceive, insult or prostitute the other sex to vent a fetish or (ahem) selfish greed. Let's not be silly, dear, or raise a controversy based upon the lure of an ignorant statement simply to hijack a thread and market yourself.

< Message edited by amayos -- 3/26/2006 12:57:50 PM >

(in reply to GreedyEvilBych)

Post #: 20

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