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noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 7:53:40 AM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		As I said in my introduction, what brought me here was the understanding that what I valued most from my last relationship was the associated feelings I recieved that came along with the sense of ownership I had for the woman I was dating. Until her I had never experienced anything as intense or as good.

Even though every other aspect of the relationship was a disaster, I didn't care, I was hooked on the feeling and when it ended I was devistated. It's only now, that I am starting to understand why I was so devistated and that it was because she let me explore my D side with her.

While I want the good feelings again, I don't want any part of the devistation.

How do you keep from getting in too deep? Or do you?

It seems like there are people that have successfully incorporated this into their lives as part of their lives, hense the term lifestyle, while there are others that seem to be just doing this on Thursdays because there was no open spot on one of the bowling leagues.

I guess this is a stupid question, but it boils down to how do you keep from falling in love while still enjoying it all? Maybe now that I am understanding what my own feelings actually were I will be able to manage it myself, but if I am going to be honest, I have to say it scares the hell out of me. For now.
Profile   Post #: 1
RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 8:20:25 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

How do you keep from getting in too deep? Or do you?


How could it feel so good without being so deep?


quote:

I guess this is a stupid question, but it boils down to how do you keep from falling in love while still enjoying it all? Maybe now that I am understanding what my own feelings actually were I will be able to manage it myself, but if I am going to be honest, I have to say it scares the hell out of me. For now.


I would ask how can you manage another person's emotions without being in control over your own? It is a huge responsibility to "own" someone, and that responsibility ideally shouldn't be undertaken by people who are so very unsure of what they want or how to accomplish getting it. I am writing from the S-type point of view, but I would not want to be with someone who was fearful of their feelings in guiding and directing what mine should be...

My advice, man-up and face that life is full of risks and that those risks are what make it worth living before you start trying to really dominate another person emotionally...

_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SternFather)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 8:55:40 AM   
CNJDom


Posts: 186
Joined: 6/6/2006
From: Southern NJ
Status: offline 		OP:  Why not let it get deep with the right person?  It is justifiable that in some people, that they are actually looking for more than casual play.  You may be one of them.  If that is the case, then perhaps finding someone where the relationship is based on more than a sexual or play-only thing might be in order.  People tend to invest more time and emotions when they are interacting intimately together.  One of the reasons in casual play that submissives and dominants sometimes have trouble with when a relationship doesn't progress further than one point, is that the basis of the relationship wasn't clearly defined in the beginning or had changed for one and not the other.  This also happens in vanilla relationships and is a part of human nature under relationship circumstances. 

Now if you decide to have a meaningful relationship with a submissive that you care about and she cares about you, then you can let it get deep.  You can grow together in your relationship, really getting to know how and what the other responds to and with.  The dynamic will grow stronger with more subtle differences between the both of you.  Give it some thought.  Now if you are only in in it for a casual thing, then try to make sure your partner is on the same level as you and then you'll lessen your chances of being devastated when the end comes.  Good luck.  

_____________________________

“For every beauty there is an eye somewhere to see it. For every truth there is an ear somewhere to hear it. For every love there is a heart somewhere to receive it.”
 ~Ivan Panin

(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 9:24:45 AM   
Fitznicely


Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/18/2006
Status: offline 		Take it easy, trust your instincts.

Remember that even the sternest Domme and the most abject sub have one fundamental thing in common - they're both human beings, woman in flesh and blood and as such, they still need the warmth of emotion and compassion. There is nothing in the rulebook that says you HAVE to fall in love with the girl, but for heaven's sake, don't close yourself off from her. It's care, compassion, empathy and the instinct to protect and nurture that's going to make you a great Daddy Dom (assuming that's what you want from the nick, sorry if I'm wide of the mark).


_____________________________

I tell you this: No eternal reward will forgive us now for wasting the dawn
Proud Owner of Darkmoonkat. Such a good girl!

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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 9:52:25 AM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:


I would ask how can you manage another person's emotions without being in control over your own? It is a huge responsibility to "own" someone, and that responsibility ideally shouldn't be undertaken by people who are so very unsure of what they want or how to accomplish getting it. I am writing from the S-type point of view, but I would not want to be with someone who was fearful of their feelings in guiding and directing what mine should be...

My advice, man-up and face that life is full of risks and that those risks are what make it worth living before you start trying to really dominate another person emotionally...


Now THAT hits home. Thankfully I've already come to much the same conclusions.

quote:


It's care, compassion, empathy and the instinct to protect and nurture that's going to make you a great Daddy Dom (assuming that's what you want from the nick, sorry if I'm wide of the mark).  


The nick name was more of what I am than what I want to be. Like I have said I am so new to the whole idea I'm trying to take plenty of time to figure it all out, hense the questions (that I hope will get better over time)

(in reply to Fitznicely)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 10:49:17 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I was worried perhaps I came off too harsh....

I did not mean it in a snarky or nasty way, and I am glad you did not take it that way.




_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SternFather)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 12:32:00 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		You don't, any more than you can have a deeply loving marriage and not mourn when your partner dies.

If you want depth of feeling, you need to be vulnerable.

Instead of being overwhelmed by your fears how about first figure out why you got into a train wreck of a relationship last time, how to be a healthy person with healthy boundaries, and how to become attracted to healthy people with healthy boundaries themselves? Do the work first and then find a good relationship instead of knowingly going into a bad relationship with huge walls around you. The problem with putting up those walls to protect you is that they imprison you as much as they keep others out.

Don't inflict your unaddressed issues from your last relationship on someone new. All you will do is hurt her the same way you've been hurt and she doesn't deserve that.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to juliaoceania)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 12:51:02 PM   
Surrenderwithin


Posts: 368
Joined: 10/8/2006
Status: offline 		I, personally, could not do this if I was not in love. I know there is the alternate school of belief but that does not work for me in my world.



_____________________________

"There are 2 kinds of strengths: the strength to lead, and to follow; the strength to control, and to yield. There are 2 kinds of power: the power to strip another's soul bare, and the power to stand naked." - Yaldah Tovah
*15 Nz Pts*

(in reply to SternFather)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 12:58:03 PM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

Don't inflict your unaddressed issues from your last relationship on someone new.


Believe me when I say that is why I am taking things nice and slow. There are too many questions I need to answer first.



So I've gotten a lot of good feedback here on what I SHOULDN'T do, but what I would like to hear is what did/do all of you do? I know everyone is different, but I'm looking to see if there are any common themes I can learn from.

Maybe someone just needs to point me to an old thread I should be reading

(in reply to DesFIP)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 2:49:31 PM   
MasterSlaveLA


Posts: 3991
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather

So I've gotten a lot of good feedback here on what I SHOULDN'T do, but what I would like to hear is what did/do all of you do?



Your question ASSUMES (incorrectly) that most involved in this dynamic do NOT get "too deep" (i.e., develop an emotional bond) with the other person (or persons, if a poly dynamic).  That is an incorrect assuption, and thus, impossible to answer for the vast majority.

I  would think, however, if you wanted to ensure NO BOND WHATSOEVER, find someone you:

- Are not really attracted to
- Have no respect for
- Couldn't give a shit about

In doing so, this person would be nothing more than a sevice slave.  Period.  Although, I do still think a bond of sorts (even a small one, based on familiarity and routine) would likely still develop. I doubt any human being can remain completely "objective" to another... I also doubt any human being seeking what you seek isn't in need of some very serious THERAPY; and fast!!!




< Message edited by MasterSlaveLA -- 2/4/2010 3:00:35 PM >

_____________________________

It's only kinky the first time!!!

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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 6:58:35 PM   
wisdomtogive


Posts: 636
Joined: 11/13/2009
Status: offline 		Hello SternFather
These past 3 and half years I have been in a variety of D/s relationships, I knew one thing for sure-I was not able nor ready to enter any relationship completely with the sense of letting go and being totally vulnerable again. After the lost of my husband, it would not happen, but i continue on this journey, even when there were times that I wanted to shut all doors and become a solitary hermit. It now has been 4 and half years since his death, and I just moved from Florida to New Jersey with my Sir.

I honestly believed that if I didn't let myself feel/suffer through my own fears and pains of being hurt again, I would not have been in the mind space to enter this relationship now. Prior to Sir, who has been my good friend for 2 and half years, I entered relationships with those who were not emotionally invested in me. It was all I was able to do at that time. I didn't beat myself up for that, instead I went within and di scovered many things about me and came out smiling. I struggled mostly on my own about being a submissive and took the journey mostley by myself, which imho, is where it needed to start.

Take it slowly and discover who you are inside. If you are not able to be completely vulnerable and open in that way, dont push it. 'Take the steps and enter the mystery of life, one day at a time.

wisdomtogive


_____________________________

Happily owned by MstrDark1

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 7:01:31 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather
While I want the good feelings again, I don't want any part of the devistation.


I actually wrote a comment about "how do you incorporate BDSm into a healthy 24/7 relationship", but then realized thats not what you are asking.

What you are asking is how to have a deep and powerful relationship without the risk of being devastated when it ends.

You can't.

Sorry.

(in reply to SternFather)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 8:34:02 PM   
lucylucy


Posts: 612
Joined: 3/1/2009
Status: offline 		Another sub point of view . . .

What makes this fun and interesting to me is how intense it does get. One reason it's intense is that I have to make myself incredibly vulnerable, which means I am absolutely risking incredible devestation if it ends. There's no way around that. Less vulnerability means less intensity, which means less pleasure, less joy, less interest . . . and definitely fewer orgasms. I can't imagine doing this outside a relationship.

I suggest that instead of worrying about keeping things from getting too deep, you worry about finding the right person to allow things to get deep with.

AnimusRex, now I'm all curious about your take on "how do you incorporate BDSm into a healthy 24/7 relationship" . . . maybe you should start a thread on that.

_____________________________

“There are those who give with joy, & that joy is their reward.” Gibran / "Those who are willing to be vulnerable move among mysteries." Roethke / "Let the beauty we love be what we do. There are hundreds of ways to kneel & kiss the ground." Rumi

(in reply to AnimusRex)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 11:22:47 PM   
HisEvelyn


Posts: 252
Joined: 1/21/2010
Status: offline 		The only thing I can think of here is... with great risk comes great reward. :)

Another subby point of view...

I couldn't truly appreciate and enjoy my submission to my Master if I was not capable of becoming vulnerable to him emotionally.  And if he did not open up to me as well?  It would be hollow and meaningless.  I'd feel cheap, personally.  It's still difficult for me, and it's an ongoing process, because in a lot of ways, I'm still scared to trust.  Getting hurt sucks.  It can really destroy parts of you.  But unless you are only interested in casual play?  You eventually have to get back on the emotional horse and let a new bond form.  And take the risk of getting hurt again.  All part of the process.

Just my opinion!

(in reply to lucylucy)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/4/2010 11:58:47 PM   
Kirata


Posts: 15477
Joined: 2/11/2006
From: USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather

So I've gotten a lot of good feedback here on what I SHOULDN'T do, but what I would like to hear is what did/do all of you do? I know everyone is different, but I'm looking to see if there are any common themes I can learn from.

I don't know if this will be a "common theme" among other responders, but personally I don't think it's a matter of getting in "too deep" in the first place. I don't think that's an accurate frame for the problem. The real problem, as it seems to me, is more along the lines of putting all your emotional eggs in one basket. And no, I don't mean that you have more than one woman. I mean that you have to have other things that mean a great deal to you, that you take great pleasure in, that you value, and that you love, besides her. When people speak of having gotten in "too deep," the facts usually describe a situation in which they have made another person their whole world.

K.

(in reply to SternFather)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/5/2010 12:06:01 AM   
ItsAProcess


Posts: 62
Joined: 3/29/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: HisEvelyn

The only thing I can think of here is... with great risk comes great reward. :)

All part of the process.


Damn right, m'girl.

As to the OP.

What the rest say is correct. Unless all you want is casual sex (Something I, personally, cannot do any longer.} than you must open yourself up. The walls we build around ourselves to keep us from being hurt also destroy the possibility for deeper fulfillment and pleasure.

As well as contentment, joy, love..

Orgasms more exciting than the ones Rosy Palm and her Five Sisters can give you.

There is nothing like pushing a girl you've already pushed, to new heights, to new lows, and having her beg, moan for more like a little slut. Having a girl who cares for you as more than a walking cock, someone you know, acting so debased and debauched for you. Sure, new play partners are great and all, but the greatest thrills (At least for myself and some others I've spoken with) Come from being trusted enough to push boundries, to work a girl into doing the truly kinky things with you.

If that's your flavor, anyway.

That's why I, personally, can't do casual anymore.

( That, and you often end up with romantic entanglements anyway, with the wrong people. )

Tl:Dr Version?

Damn near impossible. Sorry, all part of the game.

< Message edited by ItsAProcess -- 2/5/2010 12:07:47 AM >

(in reply to HisEvelyn)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/5/2010 4:04:46 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather
So I've gotten a lot of good feedback here on what I SHOULDN'T do, but what I would like to hear is what did/do all of you do? I know everyone is different, but I'm looking to see if there are any common themes I can learn from.

Maybe someone just needs to point me to an old thread I should be reading


We became friends first. Meaning people who really liked and admired the way each other handled themselves in difficult situations. We discovered that we have very similar ethics and morals. Then we fell in love. Only after that did we move to a physical relationship.

I played with him prior to accepting him as dominant. I needed sufficient history with him to see him in enough difficult situations that I knew deep down he wasn't just saying the right things, he also did the right things.

Oh yeah, and both of us had had therapy prior to meeting in order to work on pre-existing issues.

_____________________________

Slave to laundry

Cynical and proud of it!


(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 17
RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/5/2010 6:18:50 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SternFather

quote:

Don't inflict your unaddressed issues from your last relationship on someone new.


Believe me when I say that is why I am taking things nice and slow. There are too many questions I need to answer first.



So I've gotten a lot of good feedback here on what I SHOULDN'T do, but what I would like to hear is what did/do all of you do? I know everyone is different, but I'm looking to see if there are any common themes I can learn from.

Maybe someone just needs to point me to an old thread I should be reading


The first D/s relationship I was involved in was rather intense, long distance, and I was extremely hurt by its ending. Although I feared being hurt again, I also knew that the relationship had awakened a sleeping monster. I waited a couple months and made a list of everything I wanted in a mate. I also made a list of things that were deal breakers for me. I then tried Yahoo personals and Match for about a month with not one satisfying date. I closed those accounts, got an alt account, and before the end of the first night my Daddy emailed me. We were both out of each others distance requirements, but it was not undoable. We met four months later and spoke for hours over the phone... he is one of the few people I can talk to for hours and hours to this day... we just never stopped being able to talk to each other.

I took a risk, and this relationship has caused me pain at times too... life is a risk. The risk is worth the potential gain. I recommend making some lists about what you need and want from another person. I wouldn't try to make another person fit that list, instead I would put that list away and forget about it and "date" and have FUN with the process. Get to know new people, enjoy them for who they are without expectations... and then when you find someone you click with, pull the list out and compare them to the list... put about 20 things on the list!

I did this list thing, and when I compared the actual dom I ended up with to this list, he had every quality I wanted and needed, except he does not like antiques... that was not a deal breaker (although I still wished he loved antique hunting as much as I do)


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SternFather)
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RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/5/2010 8:41:24 AM   
SternFather


Posts: 32
Joined: 4/21/2006
Status: offline 		Well, in reply to AmimusRex I understand you can't keep from being hurt when a relationship you cared about ends. So I agree and have no isues.

Let me give you all an example of what I am talking about. The person that turned me on to this site is a female D, and she has play dates with subs and both she and sub alike treat it like therapy sessions. When they are done they go back to their respective lives and that's it until next time.

There is no relationship outside the D/s boundries.

When my last girlfriend showed me her subbmissive side, since she was so very dominant in every other aspect of her life and our relationship, I mistook that for love. My mistake. Paid in full. Moving on. I'm not here to cry about it, I just don't want to make the same mistake again.

Really my problem is I have never spent any time with a person that consider's themself a "sub". My friend knows going in that she is there for a certain amount of time, she is the mistress, he is the slave...It's like a dentist appointment. It all sounds very clinical to me but she gets a lot out of it.

I'm not really sure I would get anything out of it. But at some point I will have to try it to see. I know I am not ready for that yet, but I will have to at some point to really get the answers to my questions.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 19
RE: noob question about keeping it all objective - 2/5/2010 9:33:28 AM   
juliaoceania


Posts: 21383
Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
Status: offline 		I think that you would be ill served to compare a female dominant that sounds like she may even be a pro (not assuming she is) and comparing male/female D/s. From what I have seen they are very different on average, and while you may find a woman that wants "therapeutic" domination, that is not the motivation that most submissives I have seen have toward seeking a dominant.

Best advice, define what you want, but do not only use your head to define it, that way lays folly in my experience... can't deny what the heart truly craves.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

(in reply to SternFather)
Profile   Post #: 20
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