RE: the new socialism (Full Version)

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LadyEllen -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 4:06:48 PM)

Hey cuckyman, want to solve the puzzle? The clue is "people who shouldnt be president"

And your letters are     _ i g g e r s

Come on now, I'll have to hurry you.......

Whats that? Socialists? Well done - youve won tonight's star prize, a one way trip to North Vietnam where your ideas of rightful civil governance will ensure you fit right in. Plus which, there's no "socialists" in North Vietnam either.

E



philosophy -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 5:58:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou


I think it's because no one ever defines the meaning of the word. There is not one meaning. There is the meaning a 100 years ago, there is the meaning in common usage, there is variation based on location. This holds true for "the right", "the left", "conservative", "liberal", etc....

Now, one can argue that there is really only one meaning, but that's not true, because as soon as a new meaning becomes accepted by a large portion of the group in question then it becomes the meaning for all practical purposes, thus why we have arguments, even if under one meaning the word would not even apply.

I'd propose when starting a thread about some word that has several popular meanings that one simply define the definition they are using at the beginning.

Common popular usage trumps text book definitions, at least in the realm of the common man, of which this forum is composed, call it ignorance, which it may be, but with time, the corrupted meaning becomes the new meaning.





.....actually that's a very honest response. i don't entirely agree with your central thesis (that common useage trumps text book definitions), but i'd like to sincerely thank you for a thoughtful and articulate response.




philosophy -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:01:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Socialism simply means that those that expounse this philosphy are enemies of the country I grew up in...


...well, to be honest you haven't defined socialism at all. All you've said is that socialism is the enemy of the country you believe yourself to be a part of.

So, am i to take it that you define socialism as any creed or philosophy that is not (for want of a better word) american?



Lucylastic -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:08:18 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Politesub53

Lucy, did you shudder or "shudder"  Inquisitive minds need to know. [8D]

Im all for whatever cranks your handle..
but its wasnt the pleasurable kind



AnimusRex -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:11:49 PM)

"Sociallism" is the buzzword to the fringe right who have taken over the Republican Party.
The conservative movement have become bizarrely doctrinaire, just like the late stage Socialists they claim to hate.]
In the 1970's there were all sorts of Socialist groups running around, all fixated on doctrine and the "Marxist Dialectic" and spouting buzzwords and slogans, for even the most common problems.
Thats pretty much what is happening with the conservative movement today- they fixate on loyalty and blind cultish devotion to anything deemd "capitalism" regardless of whether it makes sense or not.

Even stuff that was mainstream thinking a generation ago like health care for all and progressive taxation is suddenly "Socialist!"

When Newt Gingrich is purged from the Party for doctrinal heresy, you have to wonder if the lunatics have taken over the asylum.



rulemylife -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:12:01 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Socialism simply means that those that expounse this philosphy are enemies of the country I grew up in...these people are people that must be found, identified, and watched carefully....and if at all possible exported to a country that agrees with them...they have no place in a captialistic society....it is simply a historically failed system that has denied freedoms, and extorted money from citizens that choose to live differently..... It will be, and must be stopped in its tracks and its supporters rounded up....pure and simple..... and I for one that has, and will again go to war to stop its spread by any means available..... plain enough for you?..... 


Not for me.

I'm still trying to figure out what expounse means.



Jeffff -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:14:23 PM)

LE?... what about wogs?.... can wogs be president?....can wogs be president if they are capitalist wogs?

who will answer these questions!


Colonel Jeff ,India reg. (ret)



Lucylastic -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:15:25 PM)

espouse maybe???
thats what my gibberish to english dictionary says anywhooo

yes im pmsing [X(]sue me



rulemylife -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:16:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

bring it on little socialist bitches....got the assualt rifle all oiled up and ready to rock and roll....always love it when I get a good commie in the sights....killed em in piles in Viet Nam and will do it again here...... not a threat to anyone...just a warning....the US is NOT nor NEVER will be socialist..... put that in your little commie pipe and suck on it commies.....


Uh-huh!

Why do I get the feeling we'll be seeing your picture on all the networks sometime soon?



tazzygirl -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:18:12 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: cuckyman

Socialism simply means that those that expounse this philosphy are enemies of the country I grew up in...these people are people that must be found, identified, and watched carefully....and if at all possible exported to a country that agrees with them...they have no place in a captialistic society....it is simply a historically failed system that has denied freedoms, and extorted money from citizens that choose to live differently..... It will be, and must be stopped in its tracks and its supporters rounded up....pure and simple..... and I for one that has, and will again go to war to stop its spread by any means available..... plain enough for you?..... 


Damn, and i thought Hitler was dead! cucky, have you practiced goose-stepping recently?



InvisibleBlack -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:21:43 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
...well, to be honest you haven't defined socialism at all.


Alright, I'll bite. Back when I was getting my degree, socialism was defined as "a theory or system of social organization where the means of production and distribution of goods are owned and controlled collectively or by the government" - but that's a pretty dry economics definition.

If I was going to try and explain it to someone I'd say that socialism is a political and economic philosophy that advocates an economic structure based on public or common ownership and management of the production and allocation of resources with the goal of creating a society where individuals have equal or equitable access to the available resources.

What's your definition?



AnimusRex -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 6:45:51 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: rulemylife
Uh-huh!
Why do I get the feeling we'll be seeing your picture on all the networks sometime soon?


And the neighbors will all be saying, "He was a quiet man...kept to himself..."



philosophy -> RE: the new socialism (2/8/2010 11:11:01 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: InvisibleBlack

quote:

ORIGINAL: philosophy
...well, to be honest you haven't defined socialism at all.


Alright, I'll bite. Back when I was getting my degree, socialism was defined as "a theory or system of social organization where the means of production and distribution of goods are owned and controlled collectively or by the government" - but that's a pretty dry economics definition.

If I was going to try and explain it to someone I'd say that socialism is a political and economic philosophy that advocates an economic structure based on public or common ownership and management of the production and allocation of resources with the goal of creating a society where individuals have equal or equitable access to the available resources.

What's your definition?


...pretty much what you got when you got your degree. However, my query was more directed to cucky, who seems to have evolved a new definition based on what he sees as anti-american. i'm rather hoping he'll confirm or deny my impression of what he typed.

i started this thread because the word socialism seems to be used indiscriminently in the US political debate and, to be honest, i think there are rather a lot of people who use cucky's sense of the word. As a sort of catch all for anything deemed to be contrary to a set of views regarding what america is.

i think NTYU basically agreed with cucky, although he did so in a far more rational and less confrontational manner. He seems to sugest that words can mean anything the speaker wants them to. To quote Lewis Carroll....

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less."


The word socialism is in danger of having its meaning, its real meaning, stripped away. And i do believe it's a dangerous thing to do. Words have meanings. Once we arbitrarily assign meanings to words based on individual choices, then communication becomes increasingly difficult. Once communication becomes difficult, then a reasoned debate becomes nigh on impossible. Once reasoned debate is impossible, then violence......the really not good sort......becomes a real probability.



LadyEllen -> RE: the new socialism (2/9/2010 5:03:30 AM)

Never mind all that Jeffff, its the goons we have to worry about, and those unaware of how things went in the end and how the world has changed since they formed their views. It'll be interesting if he ever replies to my post.

E




Jeffff -> RE: the new socialism (2/9/2010 5:10:11 AM)

And soccer hooligans?...... from what I have seen they are right wing nationalists...... but if they are also on the dole doesn't that make them socialists?

Who would folks prefer... a capitalist wog....or a hooligan on the dole?

This can be soooooooooo  confusing!


Jeff
(leader of the Jeff Front!)



MrMister -> RE: the new socialism (2/9/2010 5:44:51 AM)

I do not mean to be disrespectful of others views (and hopefully no one will take it as such and be disrespectful of me here), but in an honest attempt to better understand, I wanted to ask the following to anyone who is a socialist, or believes in socialism;

Based upon the definition given above, why is socialism a better avenue for our government to take, as opposed to our government providing an environment that enables us to better take care of ourselves?

As I said, I do not intend to come across that you are evil, despicable, or whatever else, for believing what you do. I am just hoping to better understand your position. 



cuckyman -> RE: the new socialism (2/9/2010 6:17:55 AM)

Yes I have read it...and its about individual freedoms and rights that cannot be usurped by an out of control govenment.... I went to war to defend America, what the fuck have you done other than run your country down and oppose the freedoms guarenteed by that document..... I am sick of academia types that studied under some little bearded little marxist U proffessors that don't know shit about freedom or the price paid for it.....  The US Military knows the price paid, and that it is only a downpayment for the continuning price of freedom to come.... I hate rear echelon idiots who use the rights EARNED for them by others to degrade and the very nation that grants these freedoms.... they are a bunch of maggot infested scumbag big mouth Northeastern libs that constantly run their stinking socialist mouths.... they are about to rendered irrelevant by a landslide of public admonition of the Obama joke ass administration and those that expouse that shit are going to be told simply...'either get with the program...and learn to live and let live, or they are going to be firmly ushred to the closest border and kicked the fuck out of here.... its time to get our house in order and get rid of this parasititic disease that grows out of cowardly scumbag liberal universities.... those that send their kids to these propoganda pits are stooges and need to be bitch slapped for child abuse....fuck socialist and the horse they rode in on..... pure and simple....get it?



Jeffff -> RE: the new socialism (2/9/2010 6:21:06 AM)

Yes I get it.......... you are a facist. Why didn't you just say so?



Jeff



mnottertail -> RE: the new socialism (2/9/2010 6:21:47 AM)

lol,

you are a stooge of the communists. and based upon the shit you said about nightvision and shooting them out of the trees, I stand by my first conviction of some months ago, that if you were in Viet Nam, it was at best as a cook, or in the motor pool. (necessary, but not a reason to give you this line of bullshit to spout).

Don't wave the bloody shirt out here dude.

Ron





Jeffff -> RE: the new socialism (2/9/2010 6:25:11 AM)

Charlie don't climb trees?... I knew they didn't surf.


Jeff



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