RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (Full Version)

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Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase)


Justifiable -- Insurance companies have to make a profit
  5% (1)
Justifiable -- Why mess with the free market?
  10% (2)
Neutral -- It doesn't affect me anyway
  0% (0)
Neutral -- I can't do anything about it, so why stress?
  0% (0)
Neutral -- Health "insurance" doesn't insure anyway
  5% (1)
Questionable -- What about those who can't afford these increases?
  10% (2)
Questionable -- Profits shouldn't come before human health
  70% (14)


Total Votes : 20
(last vote on : 2/12/2010 8:49:59 PM)
(Poll will run till: -- )


Message


Louve00 -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 8:28:39 AM)

ahahahahahahaha!!




tazzygirl -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 8:31:16 AM)

You might be surprised about the number of people who dont wish to steal the bank to extend their lives. Many people over 65 with chronis illnesses dont wish that. Its the families that do. The guilt ridden daughters and sons, the greedy grandkids, ect... Thats what the "death panels" were supposed to eliminate. lol that term still gives me the giggles.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 8:38:26 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

You might be surprised about the number of people who dont wish to steal the bank to extend their lives. Many people over 65 with chronis illnesses dont wish that. Its the families that do. The guilt ridden daughters and sons, the greedy grandkids, ect... Thats what the "death panels" were supposed to eliminate. lol that term still gives me the giggles.


Yeah, I know... that's why, as soon as my kids were old enough to understand what I wanted, I made myself very clear -- to them, to my esoteric studies students, to my dad (who is still alive), and to my exes...everyone who might object or give the people handling my eventual demise a hard time... when that time-card is ready to be punched, I DO NOT WANT OVERTIME!!! Just let me go to my 'retirement-from-the-living' party in peace. I still can't guarantee that, if I'm a human cauliflower, they won't make a different decision... but they've all promised to respect my decision, I have a living will and have chosen a medical executor, and they all know that if they DO keep me alive, I swear that, once I'm able to break free, I will haunt them mercilessly in every realm I can get my arse into!


(Revised to change "human carrot" to "human cauliflower"... since I think Ron's right -- I'd definitely be more brassica than carota




SirAldwyn -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 8:40:05 AM)

quote:

So before I can have a "thought" I need to know yours. Is life worth extending for all regardless of the cost, or the quality of the live preserved? Should 90% of the resources allocated be used by 10%?


Well, the problem is not really that simple, in Illinois hospitals which are churched owned to not have to follow living wills created by the individuals.  Their core beliefs that all life should be saved or whatever it is trumps everything into a legal battle.

An example, years back when our first child was born, it had an under developed brain, every doctor said there was no chance for it to survive outside of the womb and would die shortly after birth.  So wife goes into labor, I'm not home.. ambulance arrives and takes her to the nearest hospital, (a Church owned hospital), now even though they where made aware of our babies conditions by her Dr, they took our baby from my wife and placed him in ICU where he died alone and in an incubator. And still expect us to pay the bills, which the insurance company refused, using the diagnoses from all the DR's as their reason, but still to this day we are in court over the unpaid bills, which I refuse to pay because the hospital was told not to take our child to the ICU by our DR and several others.

I'm not writing this for sympathy, just as an example of no matter what you have written (living will, etc), some believe they have the power to do as they wish, no matter what your beliefs are.

Now this was years ago and perhaps laws have changed, but until all hospitals are made to follow the wishes of the patient or their family, there will be times when your personal choices will be ignored by those who see themselves as doing God's work



I personally do not want my family going broke if I have no chance at a "normal" life, however to make matters even worse we have even seen our elected officials attempt to change laws to protect life regardless of family wishes (the brain dead woman in FL, where Bush came back from TX)






mnottertail -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 8:40:53 AM)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmph.

I have always considered you more a califlower in your golden years.

Ron




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 8:43:31 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmph.

I have always considered you more a califlower in your golden years.

Ron


Hey, that's good... I -like- cauliflower... carrots... not so much.




Mercnbeth -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 10:06:21 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

So before I can have a "thought" I need to know yours. Is life worth extending for all regardless of the cost, or the quality of the live preserved? Should 90% of the resources allocated be used by 10%?

For me, and for those close to me, the answer is "No, life is not worth extending regardless of cost, and at the point at which I can no longer contribute, I will have to have that discussion with my family about how much of the family resources can actually be put out for my ongoing care, and how those resources will be used. In my case, that translates to 'just enough resources to keep me relatively comfortable while I pass from this world'. If there were an option for "just enough resources to keep me comfortable and help me shorten the time passing from this world", it would translate to that one.

I don't think that my choice could be universally applied, though. Too many people are too afraid of death to ever be comfortable allowing the natural course of events, much less encouraging the transition.
You don't incur $140k of medical expenses in one payment. It's paid out over the course of a year. Medication, hospital care, ambulance service to the hospital; each instance treating and enabling life to go on. Any one medication eliminated may end their lives - is that what you reference "just enough resources to keep me comfortable"? Because that's the cost of keeping my parents, and many other older people, "comfortable".

My description of my parents condition wasn't clear. They are not 'chronic' they are not 'on life support'. Between the occurrences of illness they are functioning. They saved all their lives and are currently enjoying a life in a private 'assisted living facility' resembling a land locked cruise ship life-style. Fortunately they saved, mostly in the form of their house, nearly a $400k. It will all be gone in another year or so and I'll have to take over that expense. But meanwhile they are enjoying their life as much as they can.

The occurrence of illnesses are frequent, as they would be for anyone of their age who made their life choices about diet and self imposed preventative health maintenance. Neither require a respirator and they can feed themselves. They are "comfortable", expensive for their insurance providers, but very comfortable.

And they earned their comfort. There is no blame on either side of the table for not appreciating when the last union contract was signed in the 1980's to consider the medical technology and resources available in 2010. My father's heart attack would have been fatal if he had it in 1981; in 2000 he got bypass surgery and was up and around in 2 weeks. My mother has had a shunt in place for a few years. Her treatment didn't exist when her union contract was signed and her insurance coverage for her retirement was committed.

It is within this model, with technology and costs not contemplated now 'standard' practice that needs to be reconciled. Treatment and medication is "life extending" but it isn't considered "exceptional". In an era when a heart, lung, liver, and kidney transplants are so common as to be minor plot lines in soap operas; you can't say that they are anything but routine. However, they are expensive and that's what it comes down to.

Take the 'chronic' the comatose, the exceptional life support methods out of the equation and you still end up with a large, and growing, population who simply needs to tap into the technology to live a decent life. You still end up with very skewed numbers of resource allocation. How can the numbers be managed by a industry or a government?




mnottertail -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 10:23:51 AM)

well this is the I will take the profit but not the downside we have seen as of late here in wallstreet and banking and GM.

But where is a reasonable tipping point?

Oh, I have advanced pancreatic cancer (80% cakk rate) but I have just heard of this miraculous betel nut in the amazonian rain forest treatment, Ernie Borgnines wife was completely cured by this..........it is a little known secret for centuries, but I found it on Merc and Rons website........

Well, Patrick Swayze can do that, with his own money....

That seems to me to be too far for an insurance company to warrant. But where is the cutoff? Yes, it is complex I know, and it isn't fair to someone, to take all hope away by clause 15, subsection 12, paragraph 7 (b and c) page 1073 of your policy.......

But insurance isn't in the god business, they got bible salesman and priests to take that money.....

I just don't know where in the specific cases it should cut.

Hey, cutting back your gums for perio disease has an 80% success rate. Prozac maybe has a 20% sucess rate for whatever it fixes (don't know that, just made up as illustration), and something; 17 billion dollar treatment, 42000 bucks per pill or whatever has success rate of .05% or whatever.........

Hell, cryo has a 0% success rate insofar as I know, and don't advocate it......

But where?

Ron




windchymes -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 10:34:26 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: SirAldwyn

Last year our BCBS rates went up 19.5% (the state limit is 20%), We just got another notice that our rates have gone up this year 19.5% with a decrease in coverage and and increase in the deductible and now they are asking that everyone open a checking account linked to BCBS and deposit the deductible amount so they can withdraw the money to insure your bills are paid before they pay any insurance company money




I don't understand this concept because the deductible isn't paid to the insurance company, it's paid BY YOU to the provider of services, in other words, the doctors, hospitals, lab, radiology, etc. Theoretically, the insurance company starts paying after you have incurred charges for medical expenses and fees that total $3500. THEN, they supposedly start paying, and the providers bill you themselves and do their own collections procecures, if necessary, for charges incurred that are credited towards the deductible. They're not supposed to be waiting until you actually pay the $3500 before they pay anything.

In other words, you have something medical done for which the total charges are $5000. The insurance company owes the provider $1500, regardless of whether you have paid the $3500 or not. The provider takes care of billing you and collecting the $3500 from you, arranges for a payment plan if necessary, etc.

Unless laws have changed since I actually did billing, which was a few years back.....




Thadius -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 11:08:16 AM)

For the record I am the 1 vote for the "free market". The problem is, as of right now, there is no free market for health insurance. There are a bunch of monopolies and oligopolies, simply because there is no competition allowed across state lines. I suggest that if we structure the health insurance laws more like automobile insurance laws, the ability to choose other companies or for companies to compete would drive down costs (premiums and deductibles).

Hospitals would also be able to better negotiate reimbursements with the various insurance companies, because of the increased competition.

There would be nothing preventing individual states from setting particular requirements for such coverage offered, just as they do for auto insurance. These few reasons are why I am in favor of opening it up to a FREE market (with reasonable regulations).

Just my opinion.




Louve00 -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 11:18:17 AM)

That sounds good in theory, but when I hear talk of insurance companies now demanding they be linked to your bank account in order to cover you, I get the feeling not only have they won, but they plan on making us jump thru hoops to realize they've won.  Wonder what else they'll come up with...or pay...to beat their competitors down?  They fooled us into thinking the gov't wasn't a competitor.  That they were just the gov't.  But we're still no further along than we were.

**Editted to add....in fact, if I were made to link my bank account to an insurance company, I would feel I'd been made to lose control...take a step backwards...something along those lines.




tazzygirl -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 12:54:26 PM)

Here is a thought. What would happen of everyone dropped their coverage?




mnottertail -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 12:57:28 PM)

you mean like lowering taxes so that businesses will give out more jobs and not send them overseas?

Yes, I think if we drop it, and those that keep it have to pay ever increasing premiums we may be able to go back to the table....sorta gonna happen anyway




Moonhead -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 12:58:04 PM)

The Kenyan would send in the National Guard and start shooting them.




MzMia -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 12:59:33 PM)

Great topic and thread Calla!
We have had a variety of really good and thoughtful politcal threads lately!!
I love this little corner of CollarMe!
[;)]

I think this insurance increase is coming at a bad time, but it might end up being a blessing in disguise.
We are still in a terrible recession/depression, and this is the worse time to attempt to increase insurance rates!

With the insurance companies pulling stunts like this, more and more people are going to have
to give national health coverage a second look.
Soon, many people will have no other viable choices!




Moonhead -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 12:59:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

you mean like lowering taxes so that businesses will give out more jobs and not send them overseas?

Yes, I think if we drop it, and those that keep it have to pay ever increasing premiums we may be able to go back to the table....sorta gonna happen anyway

I think she's talking about everybody in the country refusing to pay for anymore premiums until the companies start to make an effort to actually provide the care they're paying for. Nice idea, but it's unlikely to happen.




tazzygirl -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 1:02:32 PM)

Actually, i was thinking of literally dropping all health insurance. What could happen? If Dr's refused to treat, they would have no patients, Hospitals cannot refuse to treat based upon insurance for emergencies. Imagine the panic from insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

I believe that will be the next wave of insurance problems. Suddenly, no one will be able to afford health care. Small businesses, which make up over half the employers in this country, will be dropping the coverage they provide because their employees cant afford it or find it not beneficial to have. The elderly are already having to decide to eat or take meds, so they will be the next to go.




Moonhead -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 1:20:00 PM)

My mistake. I beg your pardon.




CallaFirestormBW -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 1:22:54 PM)

I'm ditching mine in May. I've had better luck with my holistic neurologist (who doesn't take insurance anyway, as he's gone to being a 'cash only' practitioner) than with the regular med profession anyway, and he's already getting referrals for me to a new cash-only HN and a cash-only general practice/gen surg practice for emergencies in NC for when I move. I'm only holding out while I finish weaning off of the last of my BigPharma medications, then I'm out. Of course, that will mean that the risk pool will diminish by one chronically ill individual, so everyone else's premiums in the pool should go down, right???




MzMia -> RE: Thoughts??? (Insurance rate increase) (2/10/2010 1:24:52 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

Actually, i was thinking of literally dropping all health insurance. What could happen? If Dr's refused to treat, they would have no patients, Hospitals cannot refuse to treat based upon insurance for emergencies. Imagine the panic from insurance and pharmaceutical companies.

I believe that will be the next wave of insurance problems. Suddenly, no one will be able to afford health care. Small businesses, which make up over half the employers in this country, will be dropping the coverage they provide because their employees cant afford it or find it not beneficial to have. The elderly are already having to decide to eat or take meds, so they will be the next to go.


Calla and tazzy, it is a damn shame that you have to even consider dropping all health insurance.
Did your rates also go up?
With the way insurance is going this days, something has to be done, and soon.


The next revolution will not be televised.
 Actually, the next revolution will be televised and videotaped. 




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