Stem Cell Research (Full Version)

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Gauge -> Stem Cell Research (3/27/2006 5:30:23 PM)

I was breezing through an article the other day about stem cell research. Now, I do not know very much about it and I guess I should know more before saying anything but here goes.

I am not really on the side of abortion as a method of birth control. For certain instances I think it might be necessary.
My question is this: Do you support stem cell research even though you might be pro-life? I believe that if they are going to perform abortions anyway, shouldn't someone at least benefit from that?

Notice that I took the middle ground and did not use loaded words. I realize that you can't debate this issue without abortion coming into it, but this is not a question of pro-choice or pro-life, it is about if it is going to happen, should it be allowed in medical research.



BrutalAntipathy -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/27/2006 6:05:52 PM)

As you pointed out, abortions are going to happen, regardless of their legality. It would only make sense to allow something good to come out of it.



windy135 -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/27/2006 6:39:52 PM)

Hmmm  interesting topic Gauge.  I want to wait to see others responses before I answer..  lol  yes my opinion may become biased but I want to hear more on both sides first.  A friend the other day told me that scientist may have found stem cells in pig testicles.  Now they are hoping that men might also carry this trait..       Has anyone else heard this?



truesub4u -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/27/2006 7:52:13 PM)

Gauge, I am pro choice myself. Though using abortion for birth control, like you I am not for. But sense abortions re taking place. I see no reason why stem cell research isn't allowed. And I believe alot can be done if it was allowed.
I have been out spoken about stem cell research on this end of my world for along time. Mainly because after my own research, I feel it may one day safe my youngest daughter's life, and or keep her walking. She suffers from spinal cord damage that is only going to get worse as she gets older, so says the doctors. So a few of them are also speakers for stem cell research.
What I am not for though.. is stem cell research for cloning. And that's being brought into the lime light lately. I am not for cloning. But that's another topic.



BitaTruble -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/27/2006 8:10:22 PM)

quote:

My question is this: Do you support stem cell research even though you might be pro-life? I believe that if they are going to perform abortions anyway, shouldn't someone at least benefit from that?


I do support stem cell research. My stance on abortion doesn't enter into the issue. There is embryonic stem cell availability from IVF embryo excesses. You can both support stem cell research and be pro-life so the issues need not collide.

I'm sure they will, however. :)

Celeste



ownedgirlie -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/27/2006 8:17:53 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

quote:

My question is this: Do you support stem cell research even though you might be pro-life? I believe that if they are going to perform abortions anyway, shouldn't someone at least benefit from that?


I do support stem cell research. My stance on abortion doesn't enter into the issue. There is embryonic stem cell availability from IVF embryo excesses. You can both support stem cell research and be pro-life so the issues need not collide.

I'm sure they will, however. :)

Celeste


i was reading this thread and all set to reply that i certainly support stem cell when used from the placenta and then i came across this.  We ought to be looking at this source first, in my opinion.



FangsNfeet -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/27/2006 8:34:06 PM)

Is it right to create a baby just to kill it so we can use its parts to help other people? How would you feel if you where brought into this world for only one purpose which required you to die long before your natural time to die? This particular issue is really no different than making clones to use only for organ donation. If someone wants to sacrifice themselves, then let them do it at there own will and not against it. Who could handle the guilt of killing a life so young just to live a little longer? Immortality has a price I don't think the human race could ever afford or live with. As far as the USA goes, we all have the right to persue happiness. If that's the case, every life we bring into this world should have that chance and not be made a lab rat.

Stem Cell Research brings a whole new meaning to the phrase "You can't make an amlet without breaking a few eggs." Who has the stomach to eat that amlet? If you needed a new heart, would you shoot someone to get it? It's the same concept. 




IronBear -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/27/2006 11:39:19 PM)

This is always going to be a highly contentious subject…   In part the choice will rest on the individual’s religious beliefs and how strong they are for that person. In part it will rest on the individual morality of each person.  

Morality for the Western World would seem to be largely based upon the prevailing religion, i.e. Christianity. The “leaders” of each society will set the moral tone with laws and education/brainwashing. I am not saying that this is necessarily wrong but I do find it offensive when a Christian Based society attempts to force their morality on tome who is known to be A-Moral (Morality based entirely on my sense of right and wrong).  


Two matters here I comment on regarding the OP:  

  1. Stem cell research.
  2. Abortion.  

Stem Cell Research 
I favour it for the potential benefits it can bring to those who are and who will suffer from many debilitating ailments such as Alzheimer’s, Diabetes and other medical conditions.      

Abortion 
I favour giving a woman the choice in this matter.  

I do not favour the radicals who protest and picket these establishments and target individuals. If such individuals chose Mob rule, let them face an opposing mob at the local football stadium and have at each other under SCA rules, armour and weapons…. Make it a paying proposition for the public and have the media cover it as sports entertainment..  



Level -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 1:26:44 AM)

Nice topic, Gauge. Maybe we can get a thread on canniblism going if this one doesn't start WW 3 *laughs*
 
For many, life begins at conception, thus to destroy an embryo is to take a life. Within 2 weeks of ovulation, the embryo has developed blood vessels. "It's not alive" some say, but it is the process of life........if it's "not alive", then abortions would not be needed to stop the process. If it's not human, then what is it? A stick? A rock?
 
I don't look at pro-stem cell people as bad or evil, nor do I look at most pro-abortion rights folks as such. I understand fully what they feel and think, and despite being strongly pro-life, I still have trouble totally dismissing stem cell research, and I agree that we should press forward with placenta cell research, hopefully finding some answers there. But as Fangs said, "If you needed a new heart, would you shoot someone to get it?"
 
Level



FangsNfeet -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 1:37:59 AM)

No religion of any sort influences my thoughts on abortion and stem cell research.

If abortion is to be truely legal, it should be given as a right to the parents untill the child turns 18 and is legally responsible for itself.

I just think everyone should have the chance to be born and make there mark. Giving birth and having a couple adopt your kid can't be the end of the world regardless of the circumstances of the pregnancy. A life threatening situation is the only reason I can see in terminating a pregnancy. 

Stem Cell research in itself is a nifty idea when using people who give there consent. Ohterwise, how far are people really going to go in trying to live forever?   

 



BitaTruble -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 1:47:03 AM)

quote:

Within 2 weeks of ovulation, the embryo has developed blood vessels. "It's not alive" some say, but it is the process of life........if it's "not alive", then abortions would not be needed to stop the process. 


Just an FYI.. stem cells are taken when the gestation ::not ovulation:: process is at one week and IVF generally has anywhere from 3 - 5 one week old embryo's which are not utilized for the fertilization. Do you want to know what's done with those?

Maybe it's better if we don't talk about it.

Celeste



RavenMuse -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 2:47:17 AM)

I am somewhat biased on the issue as the research to date looks like it is the only route likely to have any chance of treating my spinal condition within my lifetime.

All for it, damn right..... and first in the que for clinical trials when they have got far enough that I am confident in the outcome!



Level -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 3:47:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BitaTruble

Just an FYI.. stem cells are taken when the gestation ::not ovulation:: process is at one week and IVF generally has anywhere from 3 - 5 one week old embryo's which are not utilized for the fertilization. Do you want to know what's done with those?

Maybe it's better if we don't talk about it.

Celeste


"....'splain it to me, Looocyy"......If you would tell me, sure, I'd like to know, Celeste. And I'll be the first to admit that I'm very ignorant about much of this.



IronBear -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 4:15:07 AM)

Fangs, I respect your views and beliefs. I see you as a man of high moral character and I can have no problem with that. We just areat the opposite ends ofthe tableinall of thts which is excelent too. perhaos this is just one thing we can agree to disagree?   I've had inmy timeto have to deal with rape victimes who were impregnated and due to familt and other pressure refusedan abortion and later attempted suicide rather than go full term.. Some times abortian is the lesser of two evils. Also, I hold freedom to choose higher than right to life. People I know and have loved have chosen to die defending the right to be free to choose.....  That too I will defend at any cost. 



krys -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 4:40:04 AM)

Between disposal and utilization to save people's lives, I am on the side of savings people's lives.  The same reason I am a registered organ donor, and I am in the marrow donor registry, and I donate my ponytails to Locks of Love when I cut my hair. 

Forcing the disposal of those available sources won't stop abortion, it just punishes those that stem-cell research could help because you disagree with a woman's choice.  I don't see the "pro-life"ness in that.



BitaTruble -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 12:30:10 PM)

quote:


"....'splain it to me, Looocyy"......If you would tell me, sure, I'd like to know, Celeste. And I'll be the first to admit that I'm very ignorant about much of this.


Spares are frozen, destroyed in process or disposed of like.. trash. I vote for research rather than trash bins.

'With infertility affecting 2.1 million married couples in America, many have turned to infertility treatments such as IVF (in-vitro fertilization). Over the past 20 years, this technology has resulted in 150,000 babies born in the U.S. and one million worldwide. However, another result of such treatments has been the production of unused embryos -- 400,000 of which are currently in frozen storage.' From http://www.pbs.org 
'After hormone treatment it is possible to collect an average of more than three oocytes (four or five); the individual response varies and on some occasions it occurs that more than ten mature oocytes are available for fertilisation. As in practice, only a maximum of three embryos are now transplanted at the same time (to reduce the risk of multiple pregnancies), there are usually "spare" embryos.

- This had promoted the development of freezing technologies, so as to keep embryos not transferred immediately for future attempts.

Embryo freezing can be achieved with success at any stage of development, starting with one cell (two pronuclei) to the blastocyst (around four days after fertilisation). Only a proportion of these embryos (60 to 80%) survive this procedure: in this case, they maintain their normal development capability, but the rates of success to be expected from routine use of such a technique are not yet known. The freezing of mature oocytes sometimes results in a reduction on the fertilisation rate, and an increased rate of abnormal fertilisation.

- As a consequence, IVF-ET produces regularly "spare" in-vitro human embryos. This definition, commonly used, consists, in fact, of two different situations.

The first one corresponds to embryos that will be transplanted later to achieve the purpose of the couple (or of another couple) to have a child. Such embryos are all frozen and the data available in animals shows that it is very likely that they can be preserved for prolonged periods of time without any prejudice to their viability. The second one corresponds to the embryos which will not be used to achieve the purpose of the (or a) couple; such "spare" embryos are in most cases frozen or directly used for research.'
From: http://www.ccne-ethique.fr/english/avis/a_008p02.htm#XIX

"BETTY ROLLIN: After the birth of their daughter Sara, Kurt and Robin Houk of Stow, Ohio, found themselves unable to have any more children. They turned to IVF (in vitro fertilization) and after their first attempt wound up with triplets plus seven remaining embryos, which were then frozen.

Couples like the Houks are faced with four choices: Discard the unused embryos, which is what most do;

From: http://www.pbs.org/wnet/religionandethics/week644/cover.html


Celeste 



domgentleman -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 12:38:33 PM)

Howdy.   No good has ever come, or ever will come, from embryonic stem cell research.   There have, however, been advances made in treatments and therapies involving adult stem cells which are easily obtained and don't involve the killing of a child.  To tell the truth, the only reason embryonic stem cell research is even discussed it to further justify the killing of that unborn.   That's all.   There is nothing to be learned from those cells which have yielded no treatments as opposed to adult cells from which patients are already receiving benefits.



GoddessDustyGold -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 12:48:01 PM)

I am not opposed to stem cell research, but I am opposed to the abuse of and trafficking in fetal tissue.  And it is happening.  That bothers Me. Not just because I consider it life, but because I feel it is unethical.  It is too easy to step over lines, once these things begin.  In the name of science and the almighty cure. 
I am not Pro-Choice, but that has little to do with anything.  It is the law of the land (in the USA). I do however, feel it it is a private choice, and as such , it should be paid for with private funds.  I am not happy about the fact that this is supposed to be a personal choice, yet tax dollars are subsidizing abortions.  I do have a point.  Tax dollars are also subsidizing this research. 
There are also other ways to access stem cells, and there has been success with that research, but little with embryonic stem cell research.  If something were to happen to Me, wherein a treatment using stem cells from embryonic research would help, I would refuse the treatment.  I only say this to indicate that I feel strongly about this, and I would not say one thing and then do another, if I was up against a wall.
 
One source:
It's important to note, however, that the 2004 N.J. law does not limit the research to humans in the embryonic stage. Although the law purports to ban fetal trafficking, it allows "reasonable payment for the removal, processing, disposal, preservation, quality control, storage, transplantation, or implantation of embryonic or cadaveric fetal tissue."
 
Entire article here.
 
Yes, it is an editorial, but it is based upon factual research.  And there is lots more where that came from. I repeat, easy to abuse, and easy to blur the lines and twist the law.
At what and/or whose expense do these hopeful cures come?  Sometimes the question isn't so cut and dried.  Where do we draw the line?   I understand that there are women who are impregnated,so they can sell the fetal tissue.  And much is cloned in petrie dishes. 
Does dignity have a price?  It seems so. 
Just My opinion...probably worth about 1/8 of a cent.

Edited to fix link...



steven43 -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 12:56:11 PM)

As someone who could possibly get some rewards from stem cell research, i totally support it.



BitaTruble -> RE: Stem Cell Research (3/28/2006 1:39:54 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: domgentleman

Howdy.   No good has ever come, or ever will come, from embryonic stem cell research.  


May I please have the link to the science you have which supports that statement? I'd like to read it for myself.

Celeste



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