StrangerThan
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DarkSteven
Fiscal conservatives, that is. (Note: to me a fiscal conservative is one who wants to shrink government and reduce the cost of government.)
What are the reasons you want to see government reduced?
I have a couple:
1. In private enterprise, a company is paid by its customers and is required to give good service/product or it will lose its revenue base. This fight-for-survival ensures that the customers will get served.
In government, an agency is paid from its funding authority, which in turn is supported by tax revenue. It does not consider itself to be accountable to its clients (welfare recipients, subsidized businesses, etc.) by and large. An exception is the library system, which is responsive to the patrons.
2. What I call "ratcheting". Say that President Con is elected. He chooses to spend $1 bil to expand programs in law enforcement, the armed forces, and other projects near and dear to Cons' hearts everywhere. $500 mil goes to staff the expansion, and $500 mil goes to administer payments to contractors.
After Con's term ends, President Lib is elected. He decides to spend $100 bil to expand programs in social services and environmental programs. Meanwhile,he doesn't have the clout to dismantle the Con programs entirely, but he can starve them for funds. The end result is that the $500 mil for paper shufflers is kept but the $500 mil in payments is cut back drastically. So we end up having a $500 mil bureaucracy to administer maybe $100 mil in results.
When the next President gets elected, he will restore some of those funds while chopping back the social services and environmental programs.
The end result is that large bureaucracies form to deliver comparatively small benefits. Inefficiency.
Any other reasons?
Fiscal liberals, please keep out of this thread. I'll start another one for you.
Well, I'm not a liberal, not a conservative either - though most probably think so. That's primarily because they weren't exposed to the bulk of my posting and writing prior to the last couple of years. Mostly where I sit is somewhere in the middle where I can see value on both sides, but also believe neither side has the answers. If they did, we wouldn't be discussing them day in and day out. I'm not sure what I am honestly, maybe an anarchist - though that doesn't accurately portray how I feel either. I'm not tired of government. I'm tired of the government we keep electing, the kind that panders to special interest groups, the kind that is beholden to its fringes, the kind that would rather play politics than do what is right. I don't believe that is going to change until we change the basic structure of politics in this country. I'm a fairly newcomer to poltiical things. At the time Bush was elected the first go round (GW), I paid about as much attention to politics as I did to slugs crawling across the rock wall behind the house. In other words, almost none. Bush is what brought me to really look at government, parties, politics and how they work. If I give the man credit for anything, that's it. Other than that, I despised him. Not because of his policies, but mostly how he went about them.
I don't believe the private sector holds all the answers either. I think we've seen what happens in the private sector when regulations are loosened. Big business carries a tarnished image in this country for a good reason, and like most things where image is concerned, it is the actions of some that taint the image of all. As far as the economy goes, I'm not sure it's going to recover for a good while. The reason for that is fairly simple. The last boom was driven by loosened credit markets, and the vast sea of potential cash that was opened up by those relaxed regulations. That potential cash came from credit suddenly available to the public, and the thought of it instigated a host of plans and offerings designed to get you to take a swim. Because of it, prices were allowed to rise at a rate that could not be sustained. It became profitable to produce things like... $5,000 TV sets because while few would buy them outright, the bulk of sales would be tied to financing schemes.
A part of that vast sea of credit no longer exists. I don't think we will ever have another wild ride like we did from the Clinton years and early Bush years. We got used to it though and probably more importantly, investors got used to it. The withdrawl symptoms have been painful for that very reason.
Why don't I trust government? Hell, there are so many reasons that it is much easier to enumerate the few things I do trust them with. Social Security is a good example. There is no reason it should be in trouble. The reason it is, is that every administration has allowed it to be robbed blind for pork barrel projects, or to fill budget short falls. If the money put into it, had been left in it, Social Security is a discussion we wouldn't be having.
You can't get a straight answer out of government. No matter who you look to, you're going to get spin. Obama's speech about jobs, that I-got-your-back and I-feel-your-pain image he portrayed is resulting in a bill that won't produce many jobs at all. Government is inherently bloated and wasteful. It reminds me of an aging water system where actual usage includes a percentage of water leaked from old pipes. Aside from simply being bloated, you can't trust politicians to put money where it needs to go, as opposed to where they want it to go to feed their donors and their special interest supporters.
I had an experience with government run health care years ago that comes to mind everytime I hear democrats talking about it. I was traveling, had something like streph, and stopped at a clinic to be seen and hopefully get some antibiotics. One of the rules was that anyone under 18 took precedence over anyone over 18. There was no triage involved, no assessment involved. It was purely age related. So I sat there for 8 hours, running a 100+ temperature, aching and barely able to swallow, while teens came in with everything from pimples to sore fingers. I have no problem with a sick child being seen before me. It is something I would insist upon actually. But that experience was ridiculous. I believe this country needs a public option when it comes to health care. Letting democrats set it up and administer it though is just damned scary.
There's a trend of thought on one side that supply side economics works. There's an equally vocal group on the other side that denounces it as drivel. Both sides can and will produce links, graphs and statistics to support their position. Both sides are equally full of shit in many cases because it's not really about economics, it's about which side their party supports. Except for the last 2-3 years, the last 15 years was sort of a golden time where the economy is concerned. About the only real hit it took happened on 9/11. Most of those 15 years, big business made shit loads of money. Bankers made shit loads of money. Employment was high. That tends to support the position that if the rich make more money, it'll trickle down. We're never going to be able to go back to those golden years thought because the available pool of credit and cash has shrunk from a sea to a pond.
I think the only real option is a marriage of government and private enterprise. I just don't know where the level is that will make it sustainable. I don't know if there is a level that is sustainable for more than a given period of time.
What I do know is that government never really does anything well except take your money, and rout out irritating little dictators. We bitch about income taxes all the time, but what is often left out of the equation is the massive construct of hidden taxes and fees sitting behind just about anything you buy or any transaction you conduct. Its good poltiics to keep income taxes at a given level and hide tax increases behind services and goods. The effect however is just the same, it is more money from your pocket with barely a nod to reducing waste and corruption and eliminating pork barrel projects. It is more money from your pocket to support people who have the ability to support themselves. I know a woman right now who will not work because if she does, she loses her benefits.Same woman who gets government run child care that does not cost her a dime, bitches when the school wants kids to come to school before 10 am. She thinks it's too early for her or them to be up.
it's more money from your pocket to support weapons programs that are little more than money pits. More money from your pocket to bail out banks and lenders so they can keep sending you a bill, then raise their fees so they can pay you back your money. You being the vaunted tax payer who never sees that money. You just pay more and more and more. If you were involved in any adjustable rate scheme, mortgage or credit card, associated iwth a bail out bank, you paid them three times. You paid your original bill, paid to bail them out so they could keep sending it to you, and now stand a good chance of being faced with more and higher fees, interest rates to pay back the money you as the tax payer, loaned them.
And if you're sitting somewhere in middle class land, most of what government does with your money will never benefit you. Add to it the fact that we're in a society where half can't stand the other half and vice versa, where each half thinks they have all the answers and can't put two and two together when it comes to political pendulum swings enough to understand, there's a decent segment of the population who is tired of them both, who often votes either the lesser of evils or votes against rather than for. Obama didn't win because he was a great candidate. Obama won because a lot of folks despised Bush.
Government's history is one of excess, of waste, of corruption and of constantly looking for ways to take more of your money. Now why in the hell wouldn't you want to see it reduced or at least reined in?
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--'Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to reform' - Mark Twain
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A question for the conservatives. - 
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