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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 4:55:54 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rockspider
My experience tells me that women who have the need to specify they are or should be treated as a lady seldom posses the qualities necessary for being considered a lady. Just like the men on this site who calls them self for master don't have a clue what the word really means.


Well said.


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 4:58:18 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TexasMaam
When I think of the term 'ladylike' I suppose I think of demure, genteel, soft spoken and thoughtfully cool headed. While I can be all of those things, I generally err on the side of 'shooting straight from the hip' rather than being 'politically correct'.


Good descriptors, in my opinion.


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 5:18:44 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

I am not sure if the idea of being a 'Lady' is something that fits me or not. I'm not even sure it matters to me. It still feels too stifling based upon past expectations. Too submissive. I've worked too hard to escape those expectations and restrictions to allow, what feels like an antiquated mindset, to tell me what kind of woman I should be. If that makes me somehow 'less' in the eyes of some, I am okay with that. I can only do what feels right for me. Ladylike or not.


Being gracious and being submissive are not one and the same. One does not have to be demure to be a Lady.

The most elegant and truest Lady I ever met was my pateranal grandmother. I never met a woman with such class, composure, stature, elegance, always proper. And also, she might have been one of the strongest and most dominant women I ever met.

- LA


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 5:43:10 PM   
DesFIP


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All I can think of is the Tiffany Book of Etiquette for teens my grandfather bought us since we weren't demure and quiet in the presence of men. I've never gone for the dumb blonde act when there are males in the room. If they're too insecure to like an intelligent woman, then I don't need them.

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 5:58:52 PM   
sexyred1


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Isn't being a lady in the streets and a whore in the sheets the thing we should all be striving for?

I don't think I have ever had to say I was a lady or to consciously "try" and behave as a lady simply because I was brought up well, have basic manners, possess compassion, am gracious,, etc.

I don't ascribe to all various adjectives that some are mentioning such as being demure or quiet. You can be quite verbal and intellectual, assertive and funny, and still be a lady.

Being a lady or a gentleman carries certain connotations but in the end, like everything else involving semantics, these things are subjective.

I think the aura surrounding a a man or woman should be intriguing, confident, interested in others and sexy...whether you are a lady or gentleman... or not.

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 6:02:47 PM   
Louve00


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This is what I think.  I think we all have these definitions, or terms, or boundaries, that have been planted in our minds since forever.  They even have a name and the names of these "things" are called memes.  Memes are all those things like........."LeeAnn hold your knees together when you are sitting! A lady would NEVER sit with her knees apart!" "LeeAnn, don't run in the house. A lady never runs indoors!" "A lady never wears jeans." "A lady is never without a clean handkerchief." "A lady never raises her voice."  

I read a book called Virus of the Mind that talks about memes and what they are.  A meme IS a virus of the mind.  And like all viruses, they grow, they're passed on, they infiltrate us to our very cores.

The definition of a lady is: (according to Webster's)
1 a : a woman having proprietary rights or authority especially as a feudal superior b : a woman receiving the homage or devotion of a knight or lover2 capitalized : virgin mary —usually used with Our3 a : a woman of superior social position b : a woman of refinement and gentle manners c : woman, female —often used in a courteous reference <show the lady to a seat> or usually in the plural in address <ladies and gentlemen>4 a : wife b : girlfriend, mistress5 a : any of various titled women in Great Britain —used as the customary title of (1) a marchioness, countess, viscountess, or baroness or (2) the wife of a knight, baronet, member of the peerage, or one having the courtesy title of lord and used as a courtesy title for the daughter of a duke, marquess, or earl b : a woman who is a member of an order of knighthood — compare dame

The definition of a gentleman is: (according to Webster's)
1 a : a man of noble or gentle birth b : a man belonging to the landed gentry c (1) : a man who combines gentle birth or rank with chivalrous qualities (2) : a man whose conduct conforms to a high standard of propriety or correct behavior d (1) : a man of independent means who does not engage in any occupation or profession for gain (2) : a man who does not engage in a menial occupation or in manual labor for gain2 : valet —often used in the phrase gentleman's gentleman3 : a man of any social class or condition —often used in a courteous reference <show this gentleman to a seat> or usually in the plural in address <ladies and gentlemen>
 
Really, anything that varies greatly from those definitions is a meme.  If you were to ask me what I thought a lady and gentleman were, they would not vary too much from Webster's definition.  And to reword or rephrase it, I would say they would have to possess the qualities of being polite, courteous and civil.  And since you asked I would rather be known to have integrity, than be a lady.  But being a lady certainly wouldn't be bad either. 




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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 6:05:46 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Here is an article about being a Lady from the New York Times published August 9, 1908. Quite telling on how the definition changes from society and era.

- LA


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 6:11:45 PM   
lusciouslips19


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If given a choice between thought of as a "lady" or a "class act", I'd choose the class act.

Although perhaps Im not always soft or demure, Im forgivng, generous,I choose my words carefully ,when expressing someone's flaws when they ask, I try to have my friends back and I forgive and dont rub my friends nose in things better left in the past.

I do always try to please the man in my life mentally and sexually. Wear skirts and stocking for him regularly. But if lady like behavior is the one of the past, I would shelve demure, for having character and inspiring those around me by actions and deeds.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 2/14/2010 6:16:38 PM >


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 6:13:52 PM   
sexyred1


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Lushy, I LOVE that, a class act. That is what it is about.

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 6:24:45 PM   
intenze


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agrees with lushy and sexyred. You can be a class act and still be a very "in-charge" woman, or a very submissive one. You don't have to be some idealist version of a delicate flower to be a class act.

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 6:45:11 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Being gracious and being submissive are not one and the same. One does not have to be demure to be a Lady.

The most elegant and truest Lady I ever met was my pateranal grandmother. I never met a woman with such class, composure, stature, elegance, always proper. And also, she might have been one of the strongest and most dominant women I ever met.


The definition of demure is "1 : reserved, modest 2 : affectedly modest, reserved, or serious : coy."

None of which appear to be contradictory with being strong or dominant. You can be modest and still strong. Many women of the past found it easy to be both.


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'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 7:19:03 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Being gracious and being submissive are not one and the same. One does not have to be demure to be a Lady.

The most elegant and truest Lady I ever met was my pateranal grandmother. I never met a woman with such class, composure, stature, elegance, always proper. And also, she might have been one of the strongest and most dominant women I ever met.


The definition of demure is "1 : reserved, modest 2 : affectedly modest, reserved, or serious : coy."

None of which appear to be contradictory with being strong or dominant. You can be modest and still strong. Many women of the past found it easy to be both.



Perhaps. But I still contend that one doesn't have to be reserved or coy to be a Lady.

- LA

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 7:34:05 PM   
Level


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I am not sure if the idea of being a 'Lady' is something that fits me or not. I'm not even sure it matters to me. It still feels too stifling based upon past expectations. Too submissive. I've worked too hard to escape those expectations and restrictions to allow, what feels like an antiquated mindset, to tell me what kind of woman I should be. If that makes me somehow 'less' in the eyes of some, I am okay with that. I can only do what feels right for me. Ladylike or not.


Being gracious and being submissive are not one and the same. One does not have to be demure to be a Lady.

The most elegant and truest Lady I ever met was my pateranal grandmother. I never met a woman with such class, composure, stature, elegance, always proper. And also, she might have been one of the strongest and most dominant women I ever met.

- LA



LA, I think she meant "submissive" to a pre-concieved idea of what being a lady had to be, moreso than saying being gracious was submissive.

Of course, she's right, as I agree with her


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 7:43:03 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I am not sure if the idea of being a 'Lady' is something that fits me or not. I'm not even sure it matters to me. It still feels too stifling based upon past expectations. Too submissive. I've worked too hard to escape those expectations and restrictions to allow, what feels like an antiquated mindset, to tell me what kind of woman I should be. If that makes me somehow 'less' in the eyes of some, I am okay with that. I can only do what feels right for me. Ladylike or not.


Being gracious and being submissive are not one and the same. One does not have to be demure to be a Lady.

The most elegant and truest Lady I ever met was my pateranal grandmother. I never met a woman with such class, composure, stature, elegance, always proper. And also, she might have been one of the strongest and most dominant women I ever met.

- LA



LA, I think she meant "submissive" to a pre-concieved idea of what being a lady had to be, moreso than saying being gracious was submissive.

Of course, she's right, as I agree with her



I'm not sure Level, but I think we are all saying the same thing.

- LA


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 7:53:49 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Perhaps. But I still contend that one doesn't have to be reserved or coy to be a Lady.


Perhaps, but it sure helps. My point is that being reserved or coy need not interfere with the other qualities you mentioned.

The question, is how you define reserved and coy. We can all be reserved at certain times, depending on the moment. And in out puritanical (prudish) society, we're all 'supposed' to be coy. It just depends on whether or not you consider being coy a bad thing. Anyone who's never gotten laid is coy -- I guarantee it. They eventually get laid and lose some of their coy nature, but they still had it for awhile.


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"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 7:56:50 PM   
TreasureKY


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I suppose what I would consider "lady-like" and "gentlemanly" doesn't really fit what has been posted here.  I don't really consider personality traits such as "demure" or "gracious" as a part of the equation... though those often accompany the individuals who behave with lady-like or gentlemanly behavior.

For me, it is simply a matter of good manners.  Saying please and thank you, not interrupting, moderating voice and tone, not gossiping, observing table etiquette, and generally curbing behavior that others might find offensive.

Sorry, Level... you can't fart just anywhere in front of anyone and be a gentleman. 

LaTigresse... I can sympathize with your dislike of the social constraints that were pressed upon you as a child.  But it's possible those admonitions to "keep your knees together" and "always have a clean handkerchief"  might have been made simply to teach you habits that would help you avoid embarrassment and unnecessarily offending anyone. 

Have you ever had a particularly wet sneeze at the most inopportune time and been without a tissue or handkerchief?

Yeah... I know.  That's what sleeves are for! 

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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 7:58:36 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY
For me, it is simply a matter of good manners.  Saying please and thank you, not interrupting, moderating voice and tone, not gossiping, observing table etiquette, and generally curbing behavior that others might find offensive.


Good point.


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 8:17:14 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Perhaps. But I still contend that one doesn't have to be reserved or coy to be a Lady.


Perhaps, but it sure helps. My point is that being reserved or coy need not interfere with the other qualities you mentioned.

The question, is how you define reserved and coy. We can all be reserved at certain times, depending on the moment. And in out puritanical (prudish) society, we're all 'supposed' to be coy. It just depends on whether or not you consider being coy a bad thing. Anyone who's never gotten laid is coy -- I guarantee it. They eventually get laid and lose some of their coy nature, but they still had it for awhile.



I can be reserved in that I know when I should speak and when I shouldn't. And this has nothing to do with me being a woman, it has to do with having class. I give myself a little more freedom on these message boards because it is an outlet, but in real life, I am much more reserved.

Coy... maybe I'm having a hard time with coy.

1. Tending to avoid people and social situations; reserved.
2.
Affectedly and usually flirtatiously shy or modest. See Synonyms at shy.
3.
Annoyingly unwilling to make a commitment.

The only word that pops out of there for me is flirtatious. As for modesty, I would say that I'm moderately modest.

But I do not avoid people nore am I unwilling to make a commitment.

- LA


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 8:19:58 PM   
LadyAngelika


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

I suppose what I would consider "lady-like" and "gentlemanly" doesn't really fit what has been posted here.  I don't really consider personality traits such as "demure" or "gracious" as a part of the equation... though those often accompany the individuals who behave with lady-like or gentlemanly behavior.

For me, it is simply a matter of good manners.  Saying please and thank you, not interrupting, moderating voice and tone, not gossiping, observing table etiquette, and generally curbing behavior that others might find offensive.

Sorry, Level... you can't fart just anywhere in front of anyone and be a gentleman. 

LaTigresse... I can sympathize with your dislike of the social constraints that were pressed upon you as a child.  But it's possible those admonitions to "keep your knees together" and "always have a clean handkerchief"  might have been made simply to teach you habits that would help you avoid embarrassment and unnecessarily offending anyone. 

Have you ever had a particularly wet sneeze at the most inopportune time and been without a tissue or handkerchief?

Yeah... I know.  That's what sleeves are for! 



Quoted for truth and it brings back a lot of what I said in my initial post.

- LA


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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 8:29:58 PM   
Loki45


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I can be reserved in that I know when I should speak and when I shouldn't. And this has nothing to do with me being a woman, it has to do with having class. I give myself a little more freedom on these message boards because it is an outlet, but in real life, I am much more reserved.


But typically speaking, what you call 'having class' is what traditionally was called being a lady or a gentleman. Ladies and gentlemen *have* class -- and that's the point. Many today do *not* have class and thus, they are not ladies *or* gentlemen. The concept is the same, you just call it something different.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Coy... maybe I'm having a hard time with coy.

1. Tending to avoid people and social situations; reserved.
2.
Affectedly and usually flirtatiously shy or modest. See Synonyms at shy.
3.
Annoyingly unwilling to make a commitment.

The only word that pops out of there for me is flirtatious. As for modesty, I would say that I'm moderately modest.


The definition you found and the one I found differ. I found the one I posted above, which basically means a shyness or a pretend shyness about sexual things. In other words (in my view) it means you don't talk openly in public about being bent over doggiestyle, whether you like that or not. In other words -- class.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

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