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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 8:35:12 PM   
LadyAngelika


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Joined: 7/4/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Loki45

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
I can be reserved in that I know when I should speak and when I shouldn't. And this has nothing to do with me being a woman, it has to do with having class. I give myself a little more freedom on these message boards because it is an outlet, but in real life, I am much more reserved.


But typically speaking, what you call 'having class' is what traditionally was called being a lady or a gentleman. Ladies and gentlemen *have* class -- and that's the point. Many today do *not* have class and thus, they are not ladies *or* gentlemen. The concept is the same, you just call it something different.


On this we agree.

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
Coy... maybe I'm having a hard time with coy.

1. Tending to avoid people and social situations; reserved.
2. Affectedly and usually flirtatiously shy or modest. See Synonyms at shy.
3. Annoyingly unwilling to make a commitment.

The only word that pops out of there for me is flirtatious. As for modesty, I would say that I'm moderately modest.


The definition you found and the one I found differ. I found the one I posted above, which basically means a shyness or a pretend shyness about sexual things. In other words (in my view) it means you don't talk openly in public about being bent over doggiestyle, whether you like that or not. In other words -- class.



See that one I will half agree on. I think there is a time to talk about sex and a time to not talk about sex. I have a minor in sexuality in which, I talked about sex a lot. I come here and I do talk about things sexual, but that is what a lot of these forums are for, but I see it as education rather than getting rocks off. When with a partner, I do most definitely talk openly about sex.

That said, I don't tell the girls at work about my sex life or engage in that gossipy sex talk. In fact, my sex life is very mysterious to most of the people in my real life because it is none of their business.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Loki45)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 8:39:17 PM   
heartcream


Posts: 3044
Joined: 5/9/2007
From: Psychoalphadiscobetabioaquadoloop
Status: offline 		Hey, Laaaaady!


Good posting Laaaady...! I think the terms are antiquated and yet still good words. Any loving person who tries and is real, being who they are and not doing damage to themselves or others is a lady or a gentlemen in my book. Heroes, Darlings, Sweethearts, Trustworthy, are some of the words that fall under the lady/gentlemen umbrella.

A CM poster once wrote me about how a Lady in the good ol days where she would run the house and make sure all shit was right or she would be pushed to the side. In the bedroom she did anything and everything she could to keep the Lord happy or same, same, to the side ya goes.



_____________________________

"Exaggerate the essential, leave the obvious vague." Vincent Van Gogh

I'd Rather Be With You

Every single line means something.
Jean-Michel Basquiat



(in reply to Level)
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RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/14/2010 9:24:17 PM   
Loki45


Posts: 2100
Joined: 5/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika
See that one I will half agree on. I think there is a time to talk about sex and a time to not talk about sex. I have a minor in sexuality in which, I talked about sex a lot. I come here and I do talk about things sexual, but that is what a lot of these forums are for, but I see it as education rather than getting rocks off. When with a partner, I do most definitely talk openly about sex.

That said, I don't tell the girls at work about my sex life or engage in that gossipy sex talk. In fact, my sex life is very mysterious to most of the people in my real life because it is none of their business.


Then, I'd say you were "appropriately coy" when necessary and very candid when you can be. There's a time and place for everything.


_____________________________

"'Till the roof comes off, 'till the lights go out
'Till my legs give out, can't shut my mouth."

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 3:41:24 AM   
Level


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Joined: 3/3/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

I suppose what I would consider "lady-like" and "gentlemanly" doesn't really fit what has been posted here.  I don't really consider personality traits such as "demure" or "gracious" as a part of the equation... though those often accompany the individuals who behave with lady-like or gentlemanly behavior.

For me, it is simply a matter of good manners.  Saying please and thank you, not interrupting, moderating voice and tone, not gossiping, observing table etiquette, and generally curbing behavior that others might find offensive.

Sorry, Level... you can't fart just anywhere in front of anyone and be a gentleman. 

That's why I stated that I'm not one, good lady Kidding aside, I don't actually fart around those that would be offended. But neither do I follow what my definition of a gentleman is, at all times, so I do not claim the title.

LaTigresse... I can sympathize with your dislike of the social constraints that were pressed upon you as a child.  But it's possible those admonitions to "keep your knees together" and "always have a clean handkerchief"  might have been made simply to teach you habits that would help you avoid embarrassment and unnecessarily offending anyone. 

Have you ever had a particularly wet sneeze at the most inopportune time and been without a tissue or handkerchief?

Yeah... I know.  That's what sleeves are for! 

I read this as "that's what slaves are for!"



_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 8:16:15 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

quote:

I am not sure if the idea of being a 'Lady' is something that fits me or not. I'm not even sure it matters to me. It still feels too stifling based upon past expectations. Too submissive. I've worked too hard to escape those expectations and restrictions to allow, what feels like an antiquated mindset, to tell me what kind of woman I should be. If that makes me somehow 'less' in the eyes of some, I am okay with that. I can only do what feels right for me. Ladylike or not.


Being gracious and being submissive are not one and the same. One does not have to be demure to be a Lady.

The most elegant and truest Lady I ever met was my pateranal grandmother. I never met a woman with such class, composure, stature, elegance, always proper. And also, she might have been one of the strongest and most dominant women I ever met.

- LA



LA, I think she meant "submissive" to a pre-concieved idea of what being a lady had to be, moreso than saying being gracious was submissive.

Of course, she's right, as I agree with her


Exactly. I do not feel a need to measure myself against some standard 'they' (whomever they is) has come up with. I am content with my own personal standards and telling anyone that does not like them to take a long walk on a short pier. I do not care about antiquated etiquette and will not submit to it. If doing so makes someone else feel better about themselves, that is their headache.

I am 47 years old and have never had anyone, who's opinion mattered to me, have a problem with my standards of behaviour. I am reserved and have a great deal of common sense. I know when saying some things, doing some things, is inappropriate and offensive. I chose whether or not I wish to offend.......usually not, but on occasion when I think the offendee could use a little shaking and the repercussions for me are a price I am willing to pay.......I will joyfully offend. It is part of my sadism. I LOVE putting uptight or self important people on edge.

I know my personal standards are acceptable to those around me by the feedback they give. Since, when I do decide to go to a social gathering, I usually end up with the best of the lot surrounding me.......I think my personal standards, ladylike or not, must be just fine. If anything, my personal standards might be too high for the majority of attendees.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 9:01:27 AM   
Jeffff


Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline 		For what it's worth, I have always found you quite ladylike.

It may be hard to define, but I know it when I see it.


Jeff

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"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 12:56:03 PM   
cloudboy


Posts: 7306
Joined: 12/14/2005
Status: offline 		I love people who don't fit into molds, ergo I hate the terms "gentleman" and "lady."

Just give me someone, smart, considerate, funny, and fair minded. A fart here, a burp there, a rude comment, and some irreverence -- I'll take'em all. Let me have someone rough around the edges who listens, or someone bold enough to speak their mind when social conventions might have them do else wise. I'm moved when someone extends trust to me. In sum, what moves me the most with other people is their own individual behavior, idiosyncrasies, and level of self and world awareness.

I'd much rather break bread with Domiguy than Mr. Straight & Narrow. Not that this is germane to "ladies," but I'm partial to tomboys over girly-girls. The less "a lady" the better with me.

There's an art to being original and authentic without being obnoxious, self centered, or overly egotistical. I'm not sure that "Gentleman" or "Lady" tells me how best to straddle this line.

< Message edited by cloudboy -- 2/15/2010 1:03:06 PM >

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 5:12:09 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Sorry, Level... you can't fart just anywhere in front of anyone and be a gentleman. 


That's why I stated that I'm not one, good lady Kidding aside, I don't actually fart around those that would be offended. But neither do I follow what my definition of a gentleman is, at all times, so I do not claim the title.


Ahhh... but that's why I suspect you are a gentleman, good sir.   

We all let our hair down.  But knowing when and around whom is the key.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Have you ever had a particularly wet sneeze at the most inopportune time and been without a tissue or handkerchief?

Yeah... I know.  That's what sleeves are for! 


I read this as "that's what slaves are for!"


lol... That, too!  A good slave (as well as lady) always has a clean handkerchief at hand. 

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 5:22:24 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline 		As I mentioned to Level in regards to his reply to you, I think we are all agreeing.

quote:

Exactly. I do not feel a need to measure myself against some standard 'they' (whomever they is) has come up with. I am content with my own personal standards and telling anyone that does not like them to take a long walk on a short pier. I do not care about antiquated etiquette and will not submit to it. If doing so makes someone else feel better about themselves, that is their headache.


One might assume that because I chose to follow certain protocols of being a Lady that I am submitting to a standard. Perhaps I hold that standard in high regard because it is part of my upbringing which I have a high level of appreciation for and I conciously choose to be a Lady rather than it being submission to a protocol.

- LA


_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 6:03:35 PM   
Level


Posts: 25145
Joined: 3/3/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TreasureKY

Ahhh... but that's why I suspect you are a gentleman, good sir.   



*gives you a smooch on the cheek while Kentucky isn't looking*

_____________________________

Fake the heat and scratch the itch
Skinned up knees and salty lips
Let go it's harder holding on
One more trip and I'll be gone

~~ Stone Temple Pilots

(in reply to TreasureKY)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 8:26:34 PM   
TreasureKY


Posts: 3032
Joined: 4/10/2007
From: Kentucky
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

*gives you a smooch on the cheek while Kentucky isn't looking*


 

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 8:52:16 PM   
LafayetteLady


Posts: 7683
Joined: 5/2/2007
From: Northern New Jersey
Status: offline 		FR

As others have said, honesty, integrity, self respect. Making others comfortable as opposed to uncomfortable. Unlike class, someone can learn to be a lady or a gentlemen. You can't learn to have class, you either have it or you don't. Just because someone exhibits unladylike or ungentlemanly like behavior doesn't mean they aren't a lady or a gentleman. A lot depends on the situation. Belching isn't considered to be ladylike or gentlemanly, but if someone thinks they are alone and lets one rip, it doesn't make a woman less of a lady. Ladies and Gentlemen will always strive to make someone feel comfortable around them. Ladies and Gentlemen don't need to regluarly "remind" others they are intelligent or experienced or a lady or a gentleman.

The one thing I remember about southern women is that they can tell you to go fuck yourself in a way that makes it seem like a lovely invitation that you would be a fool to decline. Maybe that is the definition of a lady.

(in reply to Level)
Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/15/2010 9:29:25 PM   
pyroaquatic


Posts: 1535
Joined: 12/4/2006
From: Pyroaquatica
Status: offline 		Ah...

lemme see.

Do I want to be a Gentleman?

Yes. More importantly to be that with a hybrid code of bushido/chivalry. I've always had this fascination with Knights and Samurai. BESIDES THE SHINY ARMOR AND BLADES! GAW.

Am I currently a Gentleman? Shamefully, no. I am an upstanding young gentleman but I am a top-hat short of full gentleman status.

To me the word Lady is interchangeable with Gentleman (not the dangly parts, though). Honesty, Integrity, Preparation, Etiquette. Those still apply.

The word 'standards' was mentioned. There is no standard set of standards. Some people are incredibly relaxed (but do not be surprised if eating all of the food irritates someone).

Okay. I am done for now.




_____________________________

You are what your deep, driving desire is.
As your desire is, so is your will.
As your will is, so is your deed.
As your deed is, so is your destiny.
-Brihadaranyaka Upanishad IV.4.5

(in reply to LaTigresse)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Ladies and Gentlemen.....? - 2/16/2010 7:58:15 AM   
LaTigresse


Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyAngelika

As I mentioned to Level in regards to his reply to you, I think we are all agreeing.

quote:

Exactly. I do not feel a need to measure myself against some standard 'they' (whomever they is) has come up with. I am content with my own personal standards and telling anyone that does not like them to take a long walk on a short pier. I do not care about antiquated etiquette and will not submit to it. If doing so makes someone else feel better about themselves, that is their headache.


One might assume that because I chose to follow certain protocols of being a Lady that I am submitting to a standard. Perhaps I hold that standard in high regard because it is part of my upbringing which I have a high level of appreciation for and I conciously choose to be a Lady rather than it being submission to a protocol.

- LA



I think it ends up being a case of tomato tomaaaaato. I am simply voicing my personal opinion of how I view it.

I was thinking more about this subject on my extra long drive home last night. Thinking about the women I have admired. I do not know if they are 'ladies' but what it comes down to, for me, the qualities that I see as admirable. Strong most definitely but with regards to this conversation, I don't think a single one of them ever announced that they were a lady or not. As someone else said, the very need to declare it, almost makes it questionable.

One quality that every woman I have admired has had has been a certain humility about their own excellence. That humility shone in how they treated others, that were in many people's eyes, less something or other, than themselves. Less classy, less a lady, less a gentleman, less well off, less well mannered, etc. Those women maintained their composure and class, regardless of who's company they were in. They managed to lift those people up, rather than attempt to push them down to make themselves look better. They were kind and welcoming. Did not openly pass judgment. Never tooted their own horn because they did not need to. They lived it. They made the people around them want to be better people, just by 'being'.

I can think of two women on the forums here that have behaved in a similar manner. Lady Hugs and Sahara Eve. I may not want to be them, I may not always agree with them. But I hugely admire the way they conduct themselves.


_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to LadyAngelika)
Profile   Post #: 54
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