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"Survival of the family" outweighing individuals is something that I've always disagreed with. A "family" is made up of individuals: those individuals come first, and the world will not explode if a relationship ends so that each person can find someone they would be much, much happier with.

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ORIGINAL: Aynne88

jujubee...this has been an interesting read. Few points. You can be a "major feminist" and still be perfectly happy, content, inspired and fully complete in a male led relationship if that is your choice, feminism=choice. For this one anyway.

You also sound like some of this is well... a game of sorts, trying to outwit and outsmart the Dom kind of thing. Forgive me if I am misreading your posts, that is just the vibe I am getting. I am much more formally educated than my Dom, and....? He is extremely successful, and who has more of a higher education isn't why I defer to him. I could probably spend time figuring out ways to "outsmart" him, but that absolutely defeats the purpose of being his submissive doesn't it?

I noticed some posts back  you referenced that you love submitting in the bedroom generally, and the numerous posts in this thread about demanding equality make me wonder that perhaps you are confusing being submissive with being unequal. Equal but different, perhaps, but when you enter into a D/s or M/s relationship, generally the premise is that as far as final decision and authority, the male leads the relationship. There is nothing wrong with being a bedroom submissive, at all in fact[;)].   

Finding a man to take your well being into his very hands, to weigh each decision carefully, to love and protect you, it's pretty amazing.  To have that same man also have the final say in making decisions is *for me* wonderful because I spend my days as the one in charge, in a male dominated business, so I am so grateful to not have to do that afterhours, and I don't feel ever less than equal. If he is telling me what to make for dinner, or we are deciding on a vacation spot...my opinions are always measured. He ultimately decides though, and that works for me. I told him way back in the beginning the only thing I would not acquiesce on ever was politics, so we don't discuss it. He being a big R and me being a huge leftist.[;)]. 

Sorry for rambling, He is having surgery tomorrow and I am stressed, tired and worried. I hope this wasn't taken offensively jujubee, just some thoughts.

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ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

Sacrifice the family for the individual and what does the individual have left to give them strength?

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ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB

If having high self-esteem leaves me alone in this world, the loneliness will be well worth it. Only those with high self-esteem have figured that out. But you know what? I won't be alone in the world, because there are plenty of people who share my value system, which definitely differs from yours (as you pointed out). I disagree that my point of view is illogical - it's actually extremely logical and not remotely emotional, because I'm not allowing a fear of loneliness to control my life, and I'm not allowing love - which is a difficult emotion to hold in check - to lead me away from myself. Love should enhance what's already there, and if it doesn't, then it's not worth even a moment of time.

I think the points have been made, and we should probably let it go. Best wishes to you and yours.

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ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
No offense taken, Aynne. I appreciate your passion for your relationship, and what you've found that's been fantastic for you. I think it's easy, when reading a thread, to miss the six times I stated that I was just talking from MY perspective, and that I know that people in 24/7 relationships are very happy. It just doesn't work for me. The reason I mentioned that I can outsmart my Dom is that, for me, I can't submit unless I feel totally outsmarted. Yes, I know that sounds like a game, but I'm not a submissive who wants to get on her knees and ask politely to serve. I'm a submissive who wants to feel taken and like I'm submitting to a more powerful person than I am. I want to struggle with my body and my mind and be completely, thoroughly, utterly overpowered. When I feel that, it's like someone flips a switch in me and I am suddenly a desperate, slutty, submissive mess of a girl. I can actually feel all my power and control slipping out of me. I freakin love it. I want it all the time, but when I'm in that state, I can't get anything done [:)]

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My requirement for a Dom who I can't outsmart is just because I, like every other person here, want to fulfill my deepest sexual needs. I know that D/s is not just sexual. It's not just sexual for me either, or it wouldn't work as thoroughly as it does. Anyway - I want to fulfill the needs I have, and I'm holding out hope that there's a Dom on this earth who I can share an equal partnership with in all decisions and daily life, but who can turn me into submissive mush whenever he might feel like doing so, and who will relish having that power without overstepping the control I want to have over myself. The only way he'll have that power is if he can outsmart me. It's just how I work.

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ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4

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ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
No offense taken, Aynne. I appreciate your passion for your relationship, and what you've found that's been fantastic for you. I think it's easy, when reading a thread, to miss the six times I stated that I was just talking from MY perspective, and that I know that people in 24/7 relationships are very happy. It just doesn't work for me. The reason I mentioned that I can outsmart my Dom is that, for me, I can't submit unless I feel totally outsmarted. Yes, I know that sounds like a game, but I'm not a submissive who wants to get on her knees and ask politely to serve. I'm a submissive who wants to feel taken and like I'm submitting to a more powerful person than I am. I want to struggle with my body and my mind and be completely, thoroughly, utterly overpowered. When I feel that, it's like someone flips a switch in me and I am suddenly a desperate, slutty, submissive mess of a girl. I can actually feel all my power and control slipping out of me. I freakin love it. I want it all the time, but when I'm in that state, I can't get anything done [:)]

Dare I express this, jujubee is not alone. However, this is not about "outsmarting" per se, but rather a natural process in the evolution of a D/s relationship. Intelligence is just one of the many components in the relationship progression, and tends to be key element. The D/s dynamic is establish through natural/normal interaction. It's not achieved by either party trying to adhere (squeeze into) to an advocated orientation ideology to force a D/s relationship along.

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My requirement for a Dom who I can't outsmart is just because I, like every other person here, want to fulfill my deepest sexual needs. I know that D/s is not just sexual. It's not just sexual for me either, or it wouldn't work as thoroughly as it does. Anyway - I want to fulfill the needs I have, and I'm holding out hope that there's a Dom on this earth who I can share an equal partnership with in all decisions and daily life, but who can turn me into submissive mush whenever he might feel like doing so, and who will relish having that power without overstepping the control I want to have over myself. The only way he'll have that power is if he can outsmart me. It's just how I work.

This is regarding the D/s dynamic being dynamic itself. The levels of D/s interaction adjust accordingly within the Realms of day to day life. It's not about forcing D/s for the sake of D/s so people can pronounce they have a D/s relationship. Rather it is a D/s relationship because it's a D/s relationship that's established by natural interation. I hope this concept does not confuse anybody, and makes sense.

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ORIGINAL: jujubeeMB
My requirement for a Dom who I can't outsmart is just because I, like every other person here, want to fulfill my deepest sexual needs. I know that D/s is not just sexual. It's not just sexual for me either, or it wouldn't work as thoroughly as it does. Anyway - I want to fulfill the needs I have, and I'm holding out hope that there's a Dom on this earth who I can share an equal partnership with in all decisions and daily life, but who can turn me into submissive mush whenever he might feel like doing so, and who will relish having that power without overstepping the control I want to have over myself. The only way he'll have that power is if he can outsmart me. It's just how I work.

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That's the way it works in great D/s relationships. It leads to the three Dom rules. 1. Find out what she wants to do. 2. Tell her to do it. 3. Both pretend it's the Dom's idea.

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ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

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That's the way it works in great D/s relationships. It leads to the three Dom rules. 1. Find out what she wants to do. 2. Tell her to do it. 3. Both pretend it's the Dom's idea.

Are you serious? I have heard this before and thought it was a joke. But that's for another thread. Didnt mean to take away from the bulk of your post of which I mostly agree.

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ORIGINAL: TopChuck

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ORIGINAL: Lorenzo19

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That's the way it works in great D/s relationships. It leads to the three Dom rules. 1. Find out what she wants to do. 2. Tell her to do it. 3. Both pretend it's the Dom's idea.

Are you serious? I have heard this before and thought it was a joke. But that's for another thread. Didnt mean to take away from the bulk of your post of which I mostly agree.

It's no joke.  You probably saw it, because I said it before.  I thought it was a joke, when I first saw it.  Then I analyzed the D/s interpretation of such a seemingly contradictory set of guidelines for the Dom.  It turns out it can be interpreted to lead to loving domination.

Here's why it's no joke:

1.  Find out what she wants to do:  This involves understanding the submissive, which is a primary responsibility of the (smart) Dominant; hereinafter referred to as 'you'.  This is also the level of caring for, protecting, cherishing that requires consideration about the needs of the submissive as opposed to the wants of the submissive.  Understanding leads to agreement about those wants and needs.  (It is better to reach agreement.)  It's the best place to assert your right of control.  This is what she signed up for; to be understood, so she can trust. Trusting includes her faith that she can believe you will act in her best interests and the best interests of the relationship.

2. Tell her to do it:  Actively Dominate.  Anything that fits her needs can be allowed.  Her wants that aren't harmful to her or the relationship can be allowed.  The impetus for the Dom should be to try to say yes; to avoid saying no for the sake of exercising power.  Remember, she's trusting you to provide beneficial guidance and that includes her trusting your judgment when you say 'no'.  Remember, sometimes 'no' means 'Yes, I treasure you above all else.' - and showing your deep level of wisdom about the relationship helps her appreciate and accept it.  She knows it, because she's such a smart subby.  After all, why else would she have wanted to be your submissive?

3. Both pretend it's the Dom's idea: She expresses her acceptance and appreciation for his Domination, because his understanding has made her feel cherished and respected.   You glow, because you've been trusted and received your acceptance and appreciation strokes.

Ain't D/s grand?  (Hope this helps keep you on your game.)

TopChuck

(Content lovingly approved by realsweet{TC})

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ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Service Topping - is what you're trying to get at here.

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ORIGINAL: TopChuck

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ORIGINAL: Whiplashsmile4
Service Topping - is what you're trying to get at here.

I view D/s as a balanced exchange of power, where each receives equal benefit.  Maybe Service Topping and Service Bottoming would describe how I view it; certainly not exclusive service by the Dom to the submissive, no matter how others interpret it.

Call it whatever you wish.  Trivialize to your hearts content.  I'll enjoy mine and you enjoy yours.

TopChuck

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ORIGINAL: TopChuck

You don't want to submit, you want to be Dommed?  That's it, isn't it?  You want to push against the wall of Dominance and feel that it's so strong that using all your strength you can't knock it down.  When you finally find that you'll feel safe, right?  And, you'll seek until you find that.


When I read your descriptions of your feelings about D/s, I think of Dagney Taggert in "Atlas Shrugged", who kept looking for her intellectual equal.  She couldn't fully submit until she found the strength that allowed her to remain autonomous, within the relationship.  She knelt and he pulled her to her feet alongside him.  She acceded her equality and he gave it back and made her his equal.  Then they both repeated that same process over and over.   That's called "loving".

When you find the person who can do that with you, I daresay, you'll be home, jujubee.