RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (Full Version)

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Arpig -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/15/2010 6:57:27 PM)

quote:

Ironically, the strategy that Reagan chose was to force the Soviet Union into a an arms race that would bankrupt them.
Actually that strategy was adopted back in the 50s...it was Rickover who originated the strategy. Reagan's "Star Wars" initiative was just the final offensive in a long campaign of forcing the Soviets to spend money they could not afford on the single most unproductive sector of any economy. The Star wars program was never intended to actually produce any sort of working weapon system, it was designed to spend huge sums of money, plain and simple.



DarkSteven -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/15/2010 7:05:43 PM)

It's ironic that the term "conservative" has been perverted this way.  Conservatives used to be believers in the status quo, while liberals were willing to change things.  AFAIK, Barry Goldwater was the last person to be considered a conservative who did not follow Reagan's policies of big military spending and ballooning deficits.

A "conservative" nowadays is someone who believes that tax cuts equate to prosperity, that an aggressive foreign policy is best (something Goldwater would have been horrified by), and war is almost something to be desired.





AnimusRex -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/15/2010 7:50:58 PM)

Conservatives used to be cautious, and skeptical about government power;

Today Dick Cheney literally believes that there is no limit on the power of the President.



Arpig -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/15/2010 7:52:47 PM)

Dick Cheney is simply a dangerous man of very few (if any) morals.



ThatDamnedPanda -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/15/2010 9:15:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Conservatives used to be cautious, and skeptical about government power;

Today Dick Cheney literally believes that there is no limit on the power of the President.


Depending on who's President, of course.



NeedToUseYou -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 1:55:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

It's ironic that the term "conservative" has been perverted this way.  Conservatives used to be believers in the status quo, while liberals were willing to change things.  AFAIK, Barry Goldwater was the last person to be considered a conservative who did not follow Reagan's policies of big military spending and ballooning deficits.

A "conservative" nowadays is someone who believes that tax cuts equate to prosperity, that an aggressive foreign policy is best (something Goldwater would have been horrified by), and war is almost something to be desired.





I call the bolded neo-con.  The former is a conservative.

It's all about corruption of  language, most of politics is.





Brain -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 2:32:39 AM)

Please elaborate and say which problems and show how it is Carters fault. What did Carter do to deserve blame for budget deficets or "all of these problems"?


quote:

ORIGINAL: Thadius

I blame Carter for all of these problems. Without him there would have been no Reagan, and the neocons would have no hero.

If I could only find that damned time machine.




Brain -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 2:38:26 AM)

Exactly. But then you have Thadius who blames Carter. That's sad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

The republicans love to bankrupt us because when they bankrupt us, they're only bankrupting us, not themselves. The money's just being transferred up to them. Hundreds of billions of dollars from the Bush tax cuts went straight into the pockets of millionaires. The tax cuts that have bankrupted the country were nothing more than the wealthy looting the Federal Treasury, and they gave the average American enough to buy a new TV to make them feel as though they were getting an equal share. 




Brain -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 2:49:09 AM)

And Goldwater said “You don't have to be straight to shot straight.”

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

It's ironic that the term "conservative" has been perverted this way.  Conservatives used to be believers in the status quo, while liberals were willing to change things.  AFAIK, Barry Goldwater was the last person to be considered a conservative who did not follow Reagan's policies of big military spending and ballooning deficits.

A "conservative" nowadays is someone who believes that tax cuts equate to prosperity, that an aggressive foreign policy is best (something Goldwater would have been horrified by), and war is almost something to be desired.







eyesopened -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 5:21:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brain

Exactly. But then you have Thadius who blames Carter. That's sad.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

The republicans love to bankrupt us because when they bankrupt us, they're only bankrupting us, not themselves. The money's just being transferred up to them. Hundreds of billions of dollars from the Bush tax cuts went straight into the pockets of millionaires. The tax cuts that have bankrupted the country were nothing more than the wealthy looting the Federal Treasury, and they gave the average American enough to buy a new TV to make them feel as though they were getting an equal share. 




Sad.  Yes.  Not totally untrue.  You are too young to remember the energy crisis or the runaway inflation.  The people looked to government to do something.  That something ended up being de-regulation of the energy industries.  That was a short-term fix.  Reagan went on a whirlwind spree of de-regulating damn near everything because it provided short-term fixes with absolutely no regard to long-term consequences. 

Mr. Carter believed in the Amercian people.

The Speech
On the evening of July 15, 1979, millions of Americans tuned in to hear Jimmy Carter give the most important speech of his presidency. After sharing some of the criticism he had heard at Camp David -- including an unattributed quote from the young governor of Arkansas, Bill Clinton -- Carter put his own spin on Caddell's argument. "The solution of our energy crisis can also help us to conquer the crisis of the spirit in our country," the president said, asking Americans to join him in adapting to a new age of limits.
But he also admonished them, "In a nation that was proud of hard work, strong families, close-knit communities and our faith in God, too many of us now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does but by what one owns." http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/amex/carter/peopleevents/e_malaise.html

Mr. Carter may not have ended up being considered a great President but he was one hell of a prophet.  "now tend to worship self-indulgence and consumption. Human identity is no longer defined by what one does but by what one owns"  That is what is sad.



Moonhead -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 5:43:04 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: ThatDamnedPanda

quote:

ORIGINAL: AnimusRex

Conservatives used to be cautious, and skeptical about government power;

Today Dick Cheney literally believes that there is no limit on the power of the President.


Depending on who's President, of course.


A very good point. I've found the double standard over Presidential authority since since an uppity Democrat got into power last year horribly depressing. The spectacle of Republicans whining about stuff they'd have been all for if McCain had won would be hilarious if it wasn't so completely pathetic.



Sanity -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 5:51:01 AM)


Are you really complaining because you don't think the people you mentioned were conservative enough with their spending habits? Or are you just trying to find cover for Obama's fiscally insane policies.



mnottertail -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 6:31:37 AM)

I dont think that Reagan, Nixon, Ford, Bush I, or Bush II were anything but borrow spenders and presided over the greatest portion of our debt, bankrupting our future, the only fiscal conservative in those years was Jimmy Carter. Now the popular Imbicilia will point to 1980 (as they always point to one small slice of anything that with a little spin and disingenuity will 'apparetly' butress their point).

So, here is Carter saying we cant afford to spend on this, we cant afford to spend on this, we cant afford to spend on this, while all the time telling people that fiscal responsibility and conservation starts with them, and that we need to quit spending our money overseas, especially on foreign oil, and now the republicans are coming up with the same thing as if it is their idea (and newly discovered) and that makes them great patriots, while at the same moment villifying the only truely fiscal conservative since .....like.....Kennedy.





Sanity -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 6:51:03 AM)


So they weren't fiscally conservative enough for you then.

Good answer!


quote:

ORIGINAL: mnottertail

I dont think that Reagan, Nixon, Ford, Bush I, or Bush II were anything but borrow spenders and presided over the greatest portion of our debt, bankrupting our future, the only fiscal conservative in those years was Jimmy Carter. Now the popular Imbicilia will point to 1980 (as they always point to one small slice of anything that with a little spin and disingenuity will 'apparetly' butress their point).

So, here is Carter saying we cant afford to spend on this, we cant afford to spend on this, we cant afford to spend on this, while all the time telling people that fiscal responsibility and conservation starts with them, and that we need to quit spending our money overseas, especially on foreign oil, and now the republicans are coming up with the same thing as if it is their idea (and newly discovered) and that makes them great patriots, while at the same moment villifying the only truely fiscal conservative since .....like.....Kennedy.






mnottertail -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 7:03:39 AM)

Well, why wouldn't I say that? Where the fuck is there a fiscal conservative in the entire republican party? Both current parties spend like drunken sailors pandering to the lowest common denominator with short term patch up fixes, no long term policy or sense of where we are in the world, and what may be our future. Meanwhile the most of the world hands us our ass constantly and consistantly.

Let there be some understanding here, I am fiscally conservative for the overwhelming bulk of government business. That does not mean to me that I sack my treasury on bringing ideological enlightenment to the world. It means I spend on making myself more competitive in the world, secure the blessings of........yadda yadda yadda



DarkSteven -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 7:12:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: NeedToUseYou

quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

It's ironic that the term "conservative" has been perverted this way.  Conservatives used to be believers in the status quo, while liberals were willing to change things.  AFAIK, Barry Goldwater was the last person to be considered a conservative who did not follow Reagan's policies of big military spending and ballooning deficits.

A "conservative" nowadays is someone who believes that tax cuts equate to prosperity, that an aggressive foreign policy is best (something Goldwater would have been horrified by), and war is almost something to be desired.



I call the bolded neo-con.  The former is a conservative.

It's all about corruption of  language, most of politics is.



Okay, I will grant you that the neocons have hijacked the entire GOP and refuse to give it back even after the Bush II disaster.  But I haven't seen many of what you call "conservative" in the GOP, and never in the Dems.  Maybe the Endangered Species Act could bring 'em back?



slvemike4u -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 9:07:38 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sanity


Are you really complaining because you don't think the people you mentioned were conservative enough with their spending habits? Or are you just trying to find cover for Obama's fiscally insane policies.

Would you still be charecterizing those same policies as "fiscally insane" if they were being enacted by a Republican congress under a Republican President?
Somehow I doubt it,but if you intend to answer in the affirmative...please provide a link to all of your posts ripping apart Bush/ Cheney's fiscally insane policy of running two wars off the books so to speak.....this should be highly illuminating.



CelticNightmare -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 9:19:18 AM)

The real problem is not political parties. It's a bloated, inefficient government that burdens the country with entirely too much taxes.

And treats business as a cash cow to keep it fed-pretty much rendering us several steps lower on a global competition scale-especially when you consider how this same taxation seems to result in inflation-from businesses having to raise prices to keep alfoat.

Business is not the culprit here-your state,local and federal Government is-and it exists no matter what "parties" are making laws.

We no longer have any value added businesses to speak of onshore. (manufacturing) Leaving us vulnerable,and a nation that is increeasingly about low paying service jobs.

The only way that we are going to reverse this trend is to let capitalism work the way it should-allowing it to make a profit and reinvest HERE-not abroad-where they are actually ALLOWED to make money-without Uncle Sam biting huge chunks out of thier bank accounts.



cuckoldmepls -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 9:43:22 AM)

Te fact is that we were attacked on 9/11 and if we fight a defensive war, they will get stronger and stronger, until they are able to use WMD on our major cities. Another little known fact is that the Constitution requires our federal government to protect us from invasion 4 different times, and defend us from attack. Reagan also ended the cold war with his military spending which in the long run will save us billions of dollars for not having to maintain a massive military that would require a larger standing army, and more expensive military equipment in larger numbers. So this war on terrorism is not only justified financially, it is required by the Constitution.

Unlike almost all the other programs and agencies Congress has created which are unconstitutional according to the 10th amendment. This argument that Bush and conservatives are trying to bankrupt us is absurd. By the way, Bush was not a true conservative. True conservatives don't ignore the Constitution and allow an invasion of 10 million illegal aliens in an attempt to create a North American Union.

Even the national park system is unconstitutional. Technically, social security is unconstitutional since there is nothing in the constitution that requires our federal gov. to provide for senior citizens. This would then be a state responsibility. However, not many Americans want to change their parent's diaper so this is one we are going to have to live with. Almost everything else should be on the table for the scrap heap.

Even the Congressional budget office said it wouldn't matter whether you raise or lower taxes if you don't cut spending first. The only way to do that is to close down unconstitutional federal programs and agencies, and transfer them to the states. The states could then decide if they want to employ those people at half their salaries or simply do away with that agency all together.

We were $5 trillion in debt when Ross Perot wanted to do something about it back in the 90's, and half the republicans voted for Ross, while the liberals voted for more government, and more spending. So our attempt to do something about it was torpedoed by the radical left wingers who took advantage of the split vote.

http://protectourborder.net/rosswasright.html






mnottertail -> RE: Why Do Conservatives Love to Bankrupt Us?? (2/16/2010 9:49:42 AM)

That is the most profoundly moronic post you have made to date, and you have made many, many profoundly cretinous posts.

Ron



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