Tea Party Rebellion for Right (Full Version)

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thornhappy -> Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 7:05:53 AM)

Hi folks, the full title is Tea Party Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right.

This article's looking at part of the Tea Party groups that's a blend of militia, John Birch, and Glenn Beck's 9/12.  It looks pretty interesting so far.  It came out yesterday and already racked up 301 comments.

These folks believe the US is moving towards tyranny and a bunch of the Federal Reserve/global finance conspiracy stuff. 

I've always wondered why they want to know who was responsible for the financial meltdown, unemployment, etc. but only formed up after Obama was elected, which is well after the crash and bailouts.



Moonhead -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 10:08:04 AM)

Maybe pahunkboy could tell you? This looks a lot like his sort of thing.



Aylee -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 11:05:39 AM)

Okay. . . going with the Roman model. . . WHO is going to be our Princeps?  Our Augustus? 


I mean, I understand the fear of civil war with blue areas against red areas.   I understand the idea of fear.  But are we REALLY at the point that we fear our "neighbor" will start shooting and so we need to start shooting first? 

BTW, I found this hyperbolic:

quote:

She did not know a soul, yet when they began electing board members, she stood up, swallowed hard, and nominated herself for president. “I was like, ‘Did I really just do that?’ ” she recalled.


I just do not buy that.  I think that it was closer to a Rosa Parks set-up.  I could be wrong of course. 



pahunkboy -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 11:19:57 AM)

1.  end the federal reserve.
2.  no war


// Ron Paul has a good record on these.



mnottertail -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 11:21:31 AM)

yes, he has ended war and outlawed the federal reserve.

I can see them from my house.



Aylee -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 11:21:45 AM)

Pa, sweetie, go buy a book on Roman history.  Read up on what happened and how it worked. 

Ron Paul has NO chance to become our Princeps. 



Moonhead -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 12:07:44 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee
Pa, sweetie, go buy a book on Roman history.  Read up on what happened and how it worked. 

He's not going to get through even the one volume edit of Gibbons without medication, I suspect.



pahunkboy -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 12:10:36 PM)

RPs voting record is not a tea party.



Moonhead -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 12:13:37 PM)

Oh, stuff that. Roman history is a lot more interesting.



Aylee -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 12:24:21 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Oh, stuff that. Roman history is a lot more interesting.


Darn skippy it is! 

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

He's not going to get through even the one volume edit of Gibbons without medication, I suspect.


He could try reading the afterward of Empire, by Card.  It was pretty good and simplistic and stuff.  The story is not too bad either.  I am planning on at least getting the second novel.  Of course, I do like Card as an author. 



Moonhead -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 12:30:27 PM)

Orson Scott Card? Didn't know he'd done any historical fiction.



slvemike4u -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 12:34:26 PM)

PA shouldn't try to get thru anything without medication....sheeesh havven't you guys been paying attnetion?



Aylee -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 12:38:10 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Orson Scott Card? Didn't know he'd done any historical fiction.


Yes.  And it is not historical.  It is present day but it has a lot of historical stuff in it.  As well as military stuff.  Copyright was 2006.  I shoot you an email on the other side. 

(Yes, I have used "stuff" as a technical term.  Just in case you decide to pick it up, I do not want to give spoilers.)

However, here is Chapter One:

http://www.hatrack.com/osc/books/empire/empire_01.shtml 



UncleNasty -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 1:06:25 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Hi folks, the full title is Tea Party Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right.

This article's looking at part of the Tea Party groups that's a blend of militia, John Birch, and Glenn Beck's 9/12.  It looks pretty interesting so far.  It came out yesterday and already racked up 301 comments.

These folks believe the US is moving towards tyranny and a bunch of the Federal Reserve/global finance conspiracy stuff. 

I've always wondered why they want to know who was responsible for the financial meltdown, unemployment, etc. but only formed up after Obama was elected, which is well after the crash and bailouts.



Well after?

Seems to me the "crash," TARP and the election all happened in a relatively short amount of time, and could be considered to have happened at essentially the same time, or concurrently. I don't consider a period of a few months to warrant being identified as "extended."

Had the crash and TARP occurred in 2006, and the Tea Party, or Tea Baggers, waited until after the election in 2008 I'd give your question/statement/argument some merit.

Uncle Nasty





Moonhead -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 1:13:50 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Aylee

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

Orson Scott Card? Didn't know he'd done any historical fiction.


Yes.  And it is not historical.  It is present day but it has a lot of historical stuff in it.  As well as military stuff.  Copyright was 2006.  I shoot you an email on the other side. 

(Yes, I have used "stuff" as a technical term.  Just in case you decide to pick it up, I do not want to give spoilers.)

However, here is Chapter One:

http://www.hatrack.com/osc/books/empire/empire_01.shtml 

Thank you.



thornhappy -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 2:51:20 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Hi folks, the full title is Tea Party Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right.

This article's looking at part of the Tea Party groups that's a blend of militia, John Birch, and Glenn Beck's 9/12.  It looks pretty interesting so far.  It came out yesterday and already racked up 301 comments.

These folks believe the US is moving towards tyranny and a bunch of the Federal Reserve/global finance conspiracy stuff. 

I've always wondered why they want to know who was responsible for the financial meltdown, unemployment, etc. but only formed up after Obama was elected, which is well after the crash and bailouts.



Well after?

Seems to me the "crash," TARP and the election all happened in a relatively short amount of time, and could be considered to have happened at essentially the same time, or concurrently. I don't consider a period of a few months to warrant being identified as "extended."

Had the crash and TARP occurred in 2006, and the Tea Party, or Tea Baggers, waited until after the election in 2008 I'd give your question/statement/argument some merit.

Uncle Nasty


Yes, but one of the most common complaints from the Tea Party is the '08 bank bailout, and that was the Bush administrations.  401ks took a huge hit at the time when the market was down to...what...6000? 

In addition, many rant about government spending and socialization of health care, but are collecting SS and using Medicare. 



pahunkboy -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 4:47:58 PM)

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LiveFreeAndSpank -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 4:54:27 PM)


ROMAN HISTORY:  
Valens tried to be a good emperor, but he inherited a great many problems. By the time he took over, Rome was just about broke. Some of Rome's wealth had been spent in warfare. Some had been spent on the development of Constantinople, the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire. And much had been wasted by the outlandish behavior of some of Rome's less able rulers.

Without money to use for repairs, the famous Roman roads started to fall into disrepair. Without good roads, fresh supplies of men and goods did not always reach the far ends of the empire. Nor were needed goods getting back to Rome. Barbarian tribes had always raided the Roman Empire. These days, barbarian raids on the provinces were becoming more successful.
In ancient Rome, a barbarian was the name given to any people who lived outside the borders of the Roman Empire. You were also called a barbarian if you did not speak Latin.
[Left]There were five main barbarian tribes in Europe. Each wanted to conquer the famous Roman Empire.  [/Left][Left] These tribes were the Huns, Franks, Vandals, Saxons, and Visigoths.  [/Left][Left] They were all attacking various pieces of the Western Roman Empire at the same time. Forts and strongholds along the road were destroyed. There were few cities in the outlying regions of the empire, but those that existed were attacked.   [/Left][Left]Rather than try to defend against all the barbarian tribes who had turned their eyes on Rome, Emperor Valens tried to turn one barbarian tribe against another. Since the barbarian tribes rarely got along anyway, it was a smart thing to do. Valens went one step further. He believed that if he could get some of the barbarians working for him, he might be able to restore order.[/Left][Left]
[/Left] [Left]Valens allowed a fierce and battle-strong barbarian tribe, the Visigoths (Goths), to settle in the Danube region of the Western Roman Empire. He promised these settlers that Rome would help with food and shelter, provided they helped by keeping order in their section of the empire.
[/Left][Left]
[/Left][Left]When Valens did not keep his promises, the Visigoths rebelled. It was the beginning of the end of the Western Roman Empire. The Western Roman Empire finally fell in the year 476 CE. [/Left]



Aylee -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 5:20:35 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LiveFreeAndSpank


ROMAN HISTORY:  
Valens tried to be a good emperor, but he inherited a great many problems. By the time he took over, Rome was just about broke. Some of Rome's wealth had been spent in warfare. Some had been spent on the development of Constantinople, the capital of the Eastern Roman Empire. And much had been wasted by the outlandish behavior of some of Rome's less able rulers.



Yeah, I snipped your quote.

The problem with your Roman history analysis is that WE are a Republic, NOT an Empire.  You are talking about the Roman Empire.  So you need to go back to the end of the Republic of Rome if you are going to compare the US to Rome. 

And that would be 44 - 27 BC for the change period.  (There is argument about just WHEN it changed from a Republic to an Empire)

Hence my questioning of just who would be our Augustus (Octavius if you will.) 

I am okay with comparing the US to Rome.  After all, the Roman Republic lasted about 450 years.  So we still have some time.  [:)] 



UncleNasty -> RE: Tea Party Rebellion for Right (2/16/2010 5:47:29 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

quote:

ORIGINAL: UncleNasty

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy

Hi folks, the full title is Tea Party Lights Fuse for Rebellion on Right.

This article's looking at part of the Tea Party groups that's a blend of militia, John Birch, and Glenn Beck's 9/12.  It looks pretty interesting so far.  It came out yesterday and already racked up 301 comments.

These folks believe the US is moving towards tyranny and a bunch of the Federal Reserve/global finance conspiracy stuff. 

I've always wondered why they want to know who was responsible for the financial meltdown, unemployment, etc. but only formed up after Obama was elected, which is well after the crash and bailouts.



Well after?

Seems to me the "crash," TARP and the election all happened in a relatively short amount of time, and could be considered to have happened at essentially the same time, or concurrently. I don't consider a period of a few months to warrant being identified as "extended."

Had the crash and TARP occurred in 2006, and the Tea Party, or Tea Baggers, waited until after the election in 2008 I'd give your question/statement/argument some merit.

Uncle Nasty


Yes, but one of the most common complaints from the Tea Party is the '08 bank bailout, and that was the Bush administrations.  401ks took a huge hit at the time when the market was down to...what...6000? 

In addition, many rant about government spending and socialization of health care, but are collecting SS and using Medicare. 



The "Yes, but..." that you lead your post with indicates you agree with me on the timing issue in re the forming of the Tea Party "movement."

I think a fair amount of ire at the bank bailout is quite reasonable. I don't think it matters under whose administration it occurred. Trillions of our dollars being taken from the many and given to a few is just a pretty good reason to be pissed off.

Further I think it is impossible to legitimately ascribe responsibility for the banking/housing mess, the TARP and other bailouts, to any single administration or party. Attempting to do such is merely partisan and biased, and that kind of perspective rarely renders accurate information on which to base any decisions or opinions. One thing it does do is keep the people divided and fighting about whose fault it is, with each side being more concerned about any of the blame sticking to them than in looking at a bigger picture and finding solutions to the problems.

Every poll I saw showed that between 2/3 and 3/4 of the people did not want war, or armed conflict, in Iraq. But that is what we got. The same applies to TARP with 2/3 to 3/4 of the people not wanting money to be given to banks. But that is what we got. Clearly our representative government isn't representative us.

Uncle Nasty



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