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What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed to j... - 2/17/2010 6:12:07 AM   
specialk2611


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline 		I have been thinking about my perceptions of what constitutes D/s as opposed to just D/s roleplay.   What are people's opinions?

- Does it depend on the dynamic (play session compared to a lifestyle relationship for example)?
- Does it depend on a person's character, and whether Dominant or submissive traits exist even when not in 'D/s time'?
- Is there any such thing as authentic, and does it really matter, as long as our minds believe it?

Thanks.



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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 6:19:28 AM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline 		Authentic cannot be determined by the observer but by the person doing. If it is an authentic expression of their feelings, then it's authentic.

We are authentically involved in a d/s relationship at all times even when he isn't actively dominating me. He can be reading the paper while I'm making dinner and it is still d/s because he still has the power of telling me to do something else then. Of course then he'll be dealing with a burnt dinner but that's his problem.

In fact even when having a role play scene, the d/s is still in existence even though I'm not a cheerleader and he's not a football player taking advantage of me under the bleachers.

It is authentic any time he has the power to tell me what to do.

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 6:33:52 AM   
specialk2611


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/13/2009
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quote:

ORIGINAL: DesFIP
If it is an authentic expression of their feelings, then it's authentic.


I really like this quote!

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 6:39:30 AM   
GraciousLady


Posts: 529
Joined: 7/7/2009
Status: offline 		To me roleplay only is casual and TPE is about your 24/7 lifestyle. Roleplay can exist within the context of a true 24/7 TPE relationship as well. I say this because to me TPE can only exist within the context of a commited relationship. If the relationship is not commited then it is temporary and not total. This is just for me but I'm sure others will have different feelings.

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 6:39:44 AM   
DarkSteven


Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline 		Roleplay is when you deliberately become somebody you are not just for fun.  It's like clothes that you put on and later take off.  True D/s is part of true life.  It's what you are underneath the clothes.

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The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 6:54:11 AM   
specialk2611


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks GraciousLady and DarkSteven.

I have been involved in 'scenes' when they have finished, left me empty, because I never believed that there was a genuine D/s exchange.

I don't think I have quite found 'IT' yet. 





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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 6:55:50 AM   
ResidentSadist


Posts: 12580
Joined: 2/11/2007
From: a mean old Daddy, but I like you - Joni Mitchell
Status: offline
quote:

Is there any such thing as authentic

Not according to consensus at CM.

-=Master/slave=-
The argument is that it is illegal to “own a human” so there is no such thing as real Master slave relationships. Those that “live it” are as guilty of fantasy as the “weekend warriors”. One fantasy is just extended for longer periods of time and seeing one argue they are real vs the other is like the kettle calling the pot black.

-=TPE=-
Like the legal status of slavery, dictatorship (total authority) is not enforceable. Same arguments, different terms. However, there is a valid faction that claims they “live it” and they have the legal papers to prove it. They have legal and enforceable guardianship and/or power of attorney over their subordinate partners. The poorly executed debates here cite court cases where “slave contracts” were ruled illegal or unenforceable. None-the-less, no BDSM guardianship or POA cases have been cited in these arguments. In my opinion, the fat lady hasn’t sung on this one yet and only time and court cases will tell.

-=Dom/sub=-
Arguments say that acknowledging it is fantasy role-play is “one way” to “real” leather kink. Opponents’ debates often confuse dominant and submissive personality traits and disorders with the Dom / sub relationship roles. Then they cite the laws of domination and submission in nature to defend the reality vs fantasy of it. From what I saw in the evolution of the BDSM communities, the great D/s debate was born online and mostly resides there.

-=Nothing is real=-
Many forget that “role-play” is not so very different than choosing what relationship “role to play”. However, pretending to be a doctor and actually being one is very different. I firmly disagree with the general consensus that nothing is real, labels do not exist and our words, relationship categories and lifestyles have no meaning except our own private personal interpretations.

All those castlertealm.com style cyber debates, semantic gymnastics with infinitely shifting definitions are just that, cyber crap. The leather lifestyle and its defined variations are as real as the leather that slaps my slave’s ass and I am still ruler of my house, even when I sleep. BDSM is not some figment of a collective online imagination, it is real, “authentic” and comes in many flavors.












< Message edited by ResidentSadist -- 2/17/2010 6:58:06 AM >

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 6:58:14 AM   
xssve


Posts: 3589
Joined: 10/10/2009
Status: offline 		It all starts as roleplay, even being a parent - you start out mimicking your role models until eventually it becomes second nature - which is why everybody eventually turns into their parents.

Presumably, if you identify as a submissive, there is something in that that attracts you, roleplay is about finding out what that is, what it is that get you into the zone.

In another sense, if you are surrendering power to another, it's real, even if it's just for the duration of a scene - "authenticity" is not about how well or how long you can play a role, it's being true to yourself - if you play a role you really don't feel, it might be "authentic" for them, but maybe not for you.

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 7:06:47 AM   
specialk2611


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline 		ResidentSadist -  Thanks for your detailed and considered reply.

xssve - I think the authentic expression of somebody's true self, is an answer/theme that is helping me find my answer on this.

< Message edited by specialk2611 -- 2/17/2010 7:07:06 AM >

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 7:12:23 AM   
RCdc


Posts: 8674
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: specialk2611

I have been thinking about my perceptions of what constitutes D/s as opposed to just D/s roleplay.   What are people's opinions?

- Does it depend on the dynamic (play session compared to a lifestyle relationship for example)?
- Does it depend on a person's character, and whether Dominant or submissive traits exist even when not in 'D/s time'?
- Is there any such thing as authentic, and does it really matter, as long as our minds believe it?

Thanks.


This is one of those 'don't ask others' questions in a sense.  Because if something is authentic to you then it really doesn't matter how others feel.
If you feel empty and false after a scene, then you already know your answer.  But that doesn't have to mean it was the scenes issue, but the person conducting it with you is the issue and you should be looking more into that IMO.

the.dark.

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 7:23:40 AM   
specialk2611


Posts: 36
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks Dark, that reinforces my view. I guess I am looking for 'guiding points' in helping define what I am looking for. 

I think I have found my answer.

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 8:49:25 AM   
MasterSlaveLA


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quote:

ORIGINAL: specialk2611

What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed to just 'roleplay'



The shoes.



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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 10:42:53 AM   
NihilusZero


Posts: 4036
Joined: 9/10/2008
From: Nashville, TN
Status: offline 		"Authentic" is a inapplicable word choice. The only difference between the two things you are describing is duration in time and application of the role(s).

And that's without getting into the differences of BDSM play and authority-transfer play (which are two distinct things, though they often overlap).

Some people are part-timers, some are full-timers.


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I know they're all insane
I know it's all in vain
I know that I'm to blame."
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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 10:55:34 AM   
PeonForHer


Posts: 19612
Joined: 9/27/2008
Status: offline 		My conclusion is that it doesn't help to think in terms of 'authentic' and 'roleplaying' as a dichotomy in the context of D/s relationships.  You're better off seeing it as a continuum.  (Recall that there's 'role-playing' - then there's 'method-acting', for instance.)  And, yes, I'd go with the view that it's much more subjective than it is objective.  Notwithstanding the illegality of one person owning another, I've read (fairly plausible) accounts, by some of those writing here at CM, of how they or others they'd known had got so deeply into their 'roles' as slaves that they actually found it difficult to 'break free' when necessary.  That is, they'd begun to feel a few of the decidedly non-fun aspects of slavery that we associate with the non-BDSM sense of that word.

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 12:00:16 PM   
CallaFirestormBW


Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline
quote:

I have been thinking about my perceptions of what constitutes D/s as opposed to just D/s roleplay


~fast reply~

For me, the difference that I think you're referring to is whether or not the authority-exchange is an aspect of our day-to-day life. Does the dominant party make the major day-to-day decisions, or only 'manage' the submissive partner during play-time, without any intrusion into everyday life? Both are equally "authentic" for the participants... but one may be substantially less life-inclusive (or life-intrusive, depending on one's perspective) than the other.

It may be different for someone else, but this is the definition I use when speaking with potential servants. They need to know that the House's priorities will take precedence, and that, while I may delegate, I will have the final word in our household. Our household is more of a day-to-day thing, with very little "scening", so it would not be a good fit for someone who only wanted that taste of control in small doses, controlled by the duration of a given scene.

{Fire}Storm

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 2/17/2010 12:02:33 PM >

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 2:05:07 PM   
CreativeDominant


Posts: 11032
Joined: 3/11/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: specialk2611

I have been thinking about my perceptions of what constitutes D/s as opposed to just D/s roleplay.   What are people's opinions?

- Does it depend on the dynamic (play session compared to a lifestyle relationship for example)?
- Does it depend on a person's character, and whether Dominant or submissive traits exist even when not in 'D/s time'?
- Is there any such thing as authentic, and does it really matter, as long as our minds believe it?

Thanks.




You've gotten some good answers and for once...I am going to have to mark this in my log of unusual events...I find myself agreeing with something that Resident Sadist said.  (is anyone else feeling the earth shake under their feet?)

I'm another of those who, the great majority of the time, does not go along with constantly-changing definitions of what is or is not "whatever term you choose".  We already set legalities aside to engage in much of what we do...do we or should we start setting aside definitions and when someone calls themselves a slave, yet exhibits absolutely no (or minimal) characteristics, are we expected to accept that once they make the heartfelt declaration that they have a "slave heart" which just has NOT found the right Master to "make it beat but it IS in there"? 

I've engaged in casual scenes since I got into D/s and BDSM 10 years ago.  I've negotiated each and every one of those so that what was going to happen, what was allowed and not allowed, was well-known---accepted---and planned for.  Some say "go with the flow" and I do, to a certain extent, with those that I have come to trust.  But the one time I did more of a "go with the flow" thing, went somewhere to visit a submissive I'd been speaking to for 4 weeks, went with all that she asked for...I got my bag dropped by my head the next day and threatened with the cops.

What does all the above have to do with your questions?  Like Resident Sadist, and others, have said in various ways...and to which I now contribute...know yourself.  Know what you are heading into, whether it is for a scene, a weekend, a month, a year or forever.  Know what type of relationship...be it an evening of BDSM play, an evening of BDSM play with sex included, a weekend of BDSM play with some D/s in the bedroom or a weekend of play and sex with D/s inside and outside the bedroom with limits set, semi-involved, fully involved, dominant/submissive with say-so in the other's life even if not their dominant/submissive yet or ever-to-be, etc.,etc...before you embark on it.  If the role you've agreed to "enter into" still does not feel authentic, then perhaps it is the defined boundaries of the relationship that are not fitting you and your authenticity.  If the role does not feel authentic, perhaps you are investing more in "acting" as you THINK you should rather than being you.  If the role does not feel authentic, perhaps it is a reflection of your partner and what they may be feeling from you or it may be a reflection of careless negotiation, depending on the situation.  Or careless or less-than-honest negotiation.

Only you can answer the myriad of questions that surround these types of relationships but stop and think...how many questions revolve around everyday, vanilla-type relationships?  At least here in D/s, you start out with a fairly defined idea of who you are in any dynamic you enter into...dominant/submissive/switch.

< Message edited by CreativeDominant -- 2/17/2010 2:18:10 PM >

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 2:42:29 PM   
Lorenzo19


Posts: 237
Joined: 2/8/2010
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quote:

I have been involved in 'scenes' when they have finished, left me empty, because I never believed that there was a genuine D/s exchange.


you are talking about feelings here. feelings are a higher level of intelligence than logic. The conundrum is that your feelings did not match what was logically happening to you. you are going with your feelings which are valid. the logic is valid. but they are opposed. your confusion is that desire to bring your feelings into balance with your intellect.

That said. How can you feel submissive in a submissive situation? that all depends on YOUR definition of submissive. define it. then find a partner who can help you acheive it.

The solution is to understand yourself as much as possible. Hope that helps.

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 5:37:41 PM   
DesFIP


Posts: 25191
Joined: 11/25/2007
From: Apple County NY
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: specialk2611

Thanks GraciousLady and DarkSteven.

I have been involved in 'scenes' when they have finished, left me empty, because I never believed that there was a genuine D/s exchange.

I don't think I have quite found 'IT' yet. 



Sounds like you need a committed relationship. To give someone power over you, you have to have a lot of faith and trust in them. Someone you negotiate a play scene with you trust to do just what you agreed to for that limited amount of time. Doesn't mean you trust them to watch your dog while you're out of town.

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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 7:01:03 PM   
littlewonder


Posts: 15659
Status: offline 		authentic..they ARE that personality. He IS a dominant personality. It's who he is.

roleplay..it's not really who he is. It's only something he has to pretend to be at that moment in time and after that moment is done he reverts to his original personality.


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RE: What defines 'authentic power exchange' as opposed ... - 2/17/2010 7:37:43 PM   
LadyAngelika


Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Authentic cannot be determined by the observer but by the person doing. If it is an authentic expression of their feelings, then it's authentic.


This.

- LA


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