Stepping outside the norm: degradation

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MissBeautiful2U -> Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:10:50 PM)
If you really cared about someone and they craved something in particular, could you do that for them even if it really didn't excite you? We're talking things like watersports, spit, that sort of thing... nothing that is terribly unsafe, just not your cup of tea? If you have stepped outside of your box of likes for someone, did you find that your feelings about the person in a vanilla setting made it easier or harder for you to do this?

camille65 -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:15:16 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissBeautiful2U If you really cared about someone and they craved something in particular, could you do that for them even if it really didn't excite you? We're talking things like watersports, spit, that sort of thing... nothing that is terribly unsafe, just not your cup of tea? If you have stepped outside of your box of likes for someone, did you find that your feelings about the person in a vanilla setting made it easier or harder for you to do this? Of course I can and do things that I'm not into but I know make him happy. To me that is part of being in a relationship, compromising sometimes. Giving sometimes when I feel like taking, and taking when he gives. I'd do that in any relationship, it doesn't have to do with D/s for me just has to do with being in a relationship. I don't understand your second part. I step outside my box a lot but am unsure of what 'did you find that your feelings about the person in a vanilla setting made it easier or harder' means.

Madame4a -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:17:46 PM)
I don't separate my feelings between vanilla and non... so its all the same to me and my relationships don't really have partitions... that said... yes, I've done things outside of my box for a person I've been with and I would imagine I would continue to. Unless I have an aversion to something, I'm always willing to try it. I had a close friend/playpartner/lover boy/bottom that I did several things for that I wouldn't do with anyone else.. and I probably won't do again. I loved him, he's still very dear to me and so I was happy to try some new things outside of my norm for him. Because that experience was positive, I'd do it again.

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:22:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissBeautiful2U If you really cared about someone and they craved something in particular, could you do that for them even if it really didn't excite you? We're talking things like watersports, spit, that sort of thing... nothing that is terribly unsafe, just not your cup of tea? If you have stepped outside of your box of likes for someone, did you find that your feelings about the person in a vanilla setting made it easier or harder for you to do this? Is it not somebody's cup of tea, because they are fearful of what they might become?

DarlingSavage -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:25:13 PM)
I would do things for someone that I loved, yes. It's my biggest pleasure to please the one I'm in love with. There are only a couple things I just don't think I could physically do, just because the very idea of those things, just thinking about them make me vomit. Somebody was asking me about one of them a couple wks ago and then I saw some people doing it in a comedy sketch, I didn't think I was going to get my stomach to stop retching. I started gagging and my stomach was heaving. I managed to keep my contents down, but only just barely.

MissBeautiful2U -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:27:21 PM)
What I mean is that I have a lot of respect for this person and am having a hard time wrapping my mind around spitting in their face etc. That sort of play is not the type of thing that I typically do. For me, it is degrading (I know it is not to everyone, so please I do not mean to offend anyone with that). At the same time, he has made it clear that he wants to be treated in a degrading manner in general. I suppose what I meant about vanilla feelings is that did you find that really caring about the person made it easier for you to treat them the way that they desired or did you find that it made it harder to be "extra mean" for a lack of a better phrase at the moment. There are things I normally do... and would have no qualms in tying him up, whipping him, etc... but the thought of watersports or spit just makes me feel a little sad inside because it feels disrespectful. (Even though I acknowledge that I know it is not! Particularly when someone desires it. I guess I am saying that if he were someone I didn't care about I would not have as hard of a time imagining doing some of these things... and wondered if it is like that for others.

Toppingfrmbottom -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:29:59 PM)
I will admit that I am rather selfish in some instances and there's somethings I will never do, weather he likes them or not, because I don't care to do them. Other things it has to be a very rare and special treat for him to get those kind of things from me Or the things have conditions on them. And he's the same way in return. There's things that are not dangerous or icky or nothing they just do nothing for him and he won't do them for me either. So we're quite compatible in that area. quote: ORIGINAL: MissBeautiful2U If you really cared about someone and they craved something in particular, could you do that for them even if it really didn't excite you? We're talking things like watersports, spit, that sort of thing... nothing that is terribly unsafe, just not your cup of tea? If you have stepped outside of your box of likes for someone, did you find that your feelings about the person in a vanilla setting made it easier or harder for you to do this?

Madame4a -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:31:36 PM)
I think that what you describe would fall under the umbrella of humiliation for me. I think its a very tricky thing in that its less physical in nature than... a few other things and has huge emotional repercussions for both people involved. I would suggest it migth be something to be very careful with. I don't care for humiliation but I have done it. Its something I really am not likely to do again.

Whiplashsmile4 -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:32:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissBeautiful2U What I mean is that I have a lot of respect for this person and am having a hard time wrapping my mind around spitting in their face etc. That sort of play is not the type of thing that I typically do. For me, it is degrading (I know it is not to everyone, so please I do not mean to offend anyone with that). At the same time, he has made it clear that he wants to be treated in a degrading manner in general. I suppose what I meant about vanilla feelings is that did you find that really caring about the person made it easier for you to treat them the way that they desired or did you find that it made it harder to be "extra mean" for a lack of a better phrase at the moment. There are things I normally do... and would have no qualms in tying him up, whipping him, etc... but the thought of watersports or spit just makes me feel a little sad inside because it feels disrespectful. (Even though I acknowledge that I know it is not! Particularly when someone desires it. I guess I am saying that if he were someone I didn't care about I would not have as hard of a time imagining doing some of these things... and wondered if it is like that for others. It's a bit like taking the plunge into the deep end of swimming pool for the first time. Sort of Scares you and there's this uncertainly if you might drown, end up sinking to the bottom. This is the best way, I learned to associate this mentally in my head the first time i did it. Just take a deep breath and go for it. After you're done, you'll be going through in your head "OMG i can't believe i just fucking did that to somebody". It okay though and even better when they express to you that it was okay too.

texangael -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:38:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissBeautiful2U If you really cared about someone and they craved something in particular, could you do that for them even if it really didn't excite you? We're talking things like watersports, spit, that sort of thing... nothing that is terribly unsafe, just not your cup of tea? If you have stepped outside of your box of likes for someone, did you find that your feelings about the person in a vanilla setting made it easier or harder for you to do this? As long as it was not fundamentally at odds with who I am, I cannot see why I would have a problem with it. People need what they need, regardless of their preferred relationship dynamic. If I am to care for and about a person, her needs are of necessity relevant to me. It might not be an easy task, but it would be a worthwhile one. That is what it means to care for a person.

lizi -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 4:42:38 PM)
Yes, if I cared for someone I would try something for him. If I didn't find it exciting myself I still might find his reaction to it very exciting. It is easier for me if I have feelings for someone to do this type of thing. I simply want to make him happy and that is where my own reward is.

StrongSpirit -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 5:05:01 PM)
There are too types of activities that this refers, those you do not care either way about and those you actively despise. I myself would always do something that I am neutral about. In addition, I would not respect someone that refused to do something simply because they would not enjoy it. But the second class, those items you actively dislike, is different. There are some I would do, but others I would not. For example, I am straight and gay sex is beyond my personal limits. Similarly I would expect a gay man to refuse to straight sex. As such, I respect a sub's hard limits as well.

SimplyMichael -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 5:14:40 PM)
I live to step outside of both my and societies norms. I have no interest in living inside a box, even one of my own making. I love having a partner who can bring new things to the relationship to try, who knows, I might find a hot new kink! That, and with the right partner, those things can and often do become hot... If you are trying to wrap your head around that sort of stuff, I would highly recomend picking up a copy of Midori's book, called The Wild Side of Sex, it has the most amazing chapter on humiliation and how to do it safely and why it works....

DesFIP -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 5:26:05 PM)
Not everyday. If he needed everyday to do stuff that I disliked, then I would eventually resent him. That's a lack of compatibility. I'm curious as to why you only list humiliating items though. Isn't there anything that doesn't float your boat outside of the area of humiliation? I'm assuming that by a 'vanilla setting' you mean if you are more than just play partners. For me, this is a full relationship. We love each other, we live together, we are raising various of our kids together. Obviously I will do stuff for him that doesn't turn me on. I also will forego stuff I enjoy because he doesn't. Which includes breath play because he will not do it due to its inherent danger. But also includes things like having quiche for dinner since he dislikes quiche ever. In his opinion, it's a pie and pies should be sweet and preferably made with apples.

Level -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 5:30:44 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissBeautiful2U If you really cared about someone and they craved something in particular, could you do that for them even if it really didn't excite you? We're talking things like watersports, spit, that sort of thing... nothing that is terribly unsafe, just not your cup of tea? If you have stepped outside of your box of likes for someone, did you find that your feelings about the person in a vanilla setting made it easier or harder for you to do this? Great avatar pic. Yes, I could step outside what I enjoy, for the right person. Could; doesn't mean would.

Andalusite -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 5:35:20 PM)
SimplyMichael, I'll have to keep an eye out for that book. I've enjoyed Midori's classes and books, so far, and humiliation play is something that isn't a limit, but that I do have trouble wrapping my mind around (on either side). MissBeautiful, I've tried things that didn't especially appeal to me, on both sides of the kneel/whip, and wound up really enjoying them. I'm usually pretty open-minded, and game to give things a try, but if I actively feel disgusted by something, then I probably won't do it unless I were submissive to that person. Even so, if they wanted me to do it all the time, I'd figure we weren't compatible.

camille65 -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 5:40:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissBeautiful2U What I mean is that I have a lot of respect for this person and am having a hard time wrapping my mind around spitting in their face etc. That sort of play is not the type of thing that I typically do. For me, it is degrading (I know it is not to everyone, so please I do not mean to offend anyone with that). At the same time, he has made it clear that he wants to be treated in a degrading manner in general. I suppose what I meant about vanilla feelings is that did you find that really caring about the person made it easier for you to treat them the way that they desired or did you find that it made it harder to be "extra mean" for a lack of a better phrase at the moment. There are things I normally do... and would have no qualms in tying him up, whipping him, etc... but the thought of watersports or spit just makes me feel a little sad inside because it feels disrespectful. (Even though I acknowledge that I know it is not! Particularly when someone desires it. I guess I am saying that if he were someone I didn't care about I would not have as hard of a time imagining doing some of these things... and wondered if it is like that for others. Thanks for explaining. I don't know how I would be able to get past that, I try so hard to not hurt people that to intentionally do so would be awfully difficult. Even knowing it is what they want/need, it would be hard. However that is why I'm not a Top lol. I'd be apologizing with each crack of the whip. From my side of it though, I used to fret a lot about how he would think of me once the adrenaline wore off. Once that cooled would he be repulsed or think I'm disgusting? Stuff like that was just huge in my mind and to be honest it still pops up now and then. I think that one thing that helped make a difference was when I actually saw his pleasure at my pleasure as well as the careful handling of me after the scene was over. Sorry I can't offer any more than that.

lovingpet -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 5:40:41 PM)
Maybe I am just taking a weird spin on this, but to me there is nothing that is degrading when it is done from a place of love, trust, and respect for one another. Humiliation play has less to do with my partner than it does with my own insecurities and crossing social norms outside our relationship. Other people may make the experience "humiliating" or even "degrading" or I may make it so to myself based on my own feelings attached to an action or circumstance and my partner may even eat up every yummy morsel of my discomfort, but at no time did I not respect him for placing me in that condition nor him me in wanting to put me in it. The two biggest factor in determining if the actions are going to be healthy instead of unhealthy is how we both view each other going in and how he cares for me coming out. This is an intimacy thing to my mind more than a D/s vs vanilla thing. It is why an older couple can usually cope better with the aging process than a younger one. It can be very devestating to suddenly find you need your partner to, for example, clean and place adult diapers on you, but there is some level of comfort when it is a spouse doing it instead of some strange nurse or even a child. When you realize that someone knows everything about you and still love you and isn't running away, a lot of the fear is gone and what was once embarrassing results in a strengthening of the bonds between the two. That, in my mind, is the goal of humilation and degradation play. It is about growing closer through adversity, not an attempt to destroy the very relationship that's allowing you to share these things in the first place. lovingpet

Rochsub2009 -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 6:01:56 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: MissBeautiful2U If you really cared about someone and they craved something in particular, could you do that for them even if it really didn't excite you? We're talking things like watersports, spit, that sort of thing... nothing that is terribly unsafe, just not your cup of tea? If you have stepped outside of your box of likes for someone, did you find that your feelings about the person in a vanilla setting made it easier or harder for you to do this? As others have stated, in relationships you do things simply because your partner wants to do them. That is the same regardless of it is a vanilla or D/s relationship. That said, are you the Domme and he's the sub? If so, why does he seem to be dictating the activities. If you don't think you'll enjoy it, then don't do it. After all, you're in charge and he shouldn't be topping from the bottom. (BTW, if you're NOT the Domme, then disregard that last part). i don't think that stepping outside of your box should change your feelings about him. If anything, it often brings two people closer. After all, he's sharing a side of himself that he probably doesn't reveal to many people. Try to see it as a bonding experience, rather than as something that drives you apart.

VaguelyCurious -> RE: Stepping outside the norm: degradation (2/17/2010 6:32:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Rochsub2009 That said, are you the Domme and he's the sub? If so, why does he seem to be dictating the activities. If you don't think you'll enjoy it, then don't do it. After all, you're in charge and he shouldn't be topping from the bottom. (BTW, if you're NOT the Domme, then disregard that last part). Rochsub, I rarely disagree with what you write, but I really dislike the part of your post that I bolded. People in relationships are allowed to communicate. They are allowed to tell each other what they would and would not like-that isn't necessarily 'topping from the bottom'. I hate it when people use the words 'should' or 'shouldn't' when they are talking about other people's dynamics.

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