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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:20:53 AM   
juliaoceania


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LaTigresse

I rather like the society we live in.

Personally I believe that you will see what you wish. If you go looking for shit, you are going to find shit. If you go looking for good and try to be a part of good, you will find and create good.

I am not saying shit does not exist, it does. But focusing on it, gives it energy and power. I prefer to focus on the good stuff more.


I live in a city that had some of the worst violence during the Rodney King Riots. I live in an area that was gang infested. It is a highly integrated area. It has also underwent a great deal of gentrification over the last 15 or so years. The downtown is now a sea of tourism because of the convention center and a new waterfront. There are luxury hotels all around me now, but there is also a lot of homelessness, etc.

I could look at the shitty aspects of living in this very urban environment, but I choose not to. I love this city. I do not feel fearful here, although I am cautious about where I go after dark, like any reasonable person. When I am out and about I see more people adding to each other than victimizing each other. I see random acts of kindness all the time, and I am a part of that randomness.. .and that is truly an awesome feeling...

To the OP, look at what you did, you helped a stranger, good on you. Now go forth and look for someone else to help. Don't shut your ass up in your apartment and dwell on the bad, go and do more nice things that make your city a better place to be, just for having you live there. Continue to be a part of the solution instead of giving up. I have been diagnosed with PTSD myself, and I can tell you, if I felt like I was slipping again, the first thing I would do is get outside of my own problems and fears and go be with other people, help other people, and focus on positive energy...


_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:25:56 AM   
kiwisub12


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

[

Anerin, Military- are doped up and drugs- to make them fight better.  There is also a RFID chip on them - which effects there moods.   We all have electrical impulses- thru the body.  The electric effects are moods and actions.   Troops are one group  that MK ultra likes to experiment on.

You are the human here.





Hehehe - so the military have chips in them to make them behave like compassionate human beings. Damn, I just thought they were nice guys!

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:29:31 AM   
thornhappy


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The military doesn't hand out amphetamines like in the days of yore.  They do dispense antidepressant and/or anti-anxiety meds (read the various news sources to see the increasing number of soldiers with depression, PTSD, etc.)

They don't have an RFID chip in them.

quote:

ORIGINAL: kiwisub12


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

[

Anerin, Military- are doped up and drugs- to make them fight better.  There is also a RFID chip on them - which effects there moods.   We all have electrical impulses- thru the body.  The electric effects are moods and actions.   Troops are one group  that MK ultra likes to experiment on.

You are the human here.





Hehehe - so the military have chips in them to make them behave like compassionate human beings. Damn, I just thought they were nice guys!

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:29:48 AM   
littlewonder


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What you experienced had nothing to do with society.

Society hasn't really changed all that much. It's not that more or less violent than before.

It has to do with location.

You went to a bar in the city. There was alcohol involved. There was a crowd.

It's mob mentality. 



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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:32:24 AM   
Ialdabaoth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Anerin, Military- are doped up and drugs- to make them fight better.  There is also a RFID chip on them - which effects there moods.   We all have electrical impulses- thru the body.  The electric effects are moods and actions.   Troops are one group  that MK ultra likes to experiment on.


??? Discounting the rest, you realize RFID chips don't work that way, right? I mean, they physically can't work that way.

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:34:46 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

ORIGINAL: littlewonder

What you experienced had nothing to do with society.

Society hasn't really changed all that much. It's not that more or less violent than before.

It has to do with location.

You went to a bar in the city. There was alcohol involved. There was a crowd.

It's mob mentality. 





The only bar fights I have witnessed took place in the sticks


_____________________________

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Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:47:49 AM   
LadyEllen


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I'm really not sure what its like in small town America when it comes to the "night time economy", but what Aneirin described here is what happens throughout small town UK every night, only getting worse at weekends. These are small towns - 50,000 population and up - the cities are even worse.

Hordes of young people, 17-30, swamp the town centres from about 9-10pm, having spent since 6pm at the latest getting drunk on cheap supermarket booze. In the town centres they go from bar to bar - not traditional English pubs like you might imagine if youre reading this in the US, but darkened nightclubs, crowded to standing room only where the music is so loud you cant hear the person next to you and drinks promotions prevail.

The entire objective of the hordes is to get as much alcohol into their system as possible and preferably to have sex with a stranger and/or to beat the crap out of someone or other for some reason, or better, for no reason other than to express the disinhibition wrought by intoxication. And this objective is shared and fulfilled by the female component of the horde to the same and occasionally greater extent. A good night out consists of enough alcohol to fell a bull elephant and a spend of around £100-00; about half a week's pay for most of the horde. How it counts as a good time is an insoluble puzzle to anyone over the age of about 30.

Anyway, after leaving the nightclub - which can be anytime until about 3am, those who have the money and are not too ill will take a taxi (after fighting it out with others for the right) and the remainder of the horde will make their ways home, screaming, shouting and fighting in residential streets, throwing up, pissing through letterboxes and generally causing mayhem. The police, so evident and numerous in the town centre, are absent from the residential areas through which they walk.

We have a real problem in the UK with alcohol these days. Whereas it used to be old men who suffered liver failure and alcoholic dementia, we now have people in their early 20s under treatment for such conditions and dying of them and especially young women. And the casualty count when we include the number and extent of personal injuries - incurred through extreme intoxication or inflicted by others under such intoxication, rises enormously. Every night, and especially at weekends the A&E departments are overwhelmed by such incidents, where it might surprise to hear the drunken behaviour of the injured often continues and results in ambulance personnel, doctors and nurses being attacked by those whom they are attempting to treat.

What is driving all this? Many things - not the least of which is the 24hr drinking introduced by the government a few years ago and the relaxation of licensing regulations which now make it extremely difficult to deny licences to sell alcohol, so leading to a plethora of nightclubs in often close proximity in town centres, and extremely difficult to deprive a licensee of his licence. Factor in a drinks industry which represents enormous profits for the manufacturers who are now able to sell at a lower price because of the larger market and the recipe is almost complete, although as it stands to this point - should we throw in the heavy discounting of booze by the supermarkets, we have the explanation for the decline of the traditional pub.

The remaining ingredient has its origin in the housing market - sounds odd I know. In times past a young person or couple would spend a few years at most living with their parents as adults, saving the money to set up home. Nowadays that goal is financially out of reach for many unless they rent, (saving for a deposit on an apartment even would take a decade) - and no one wants to rent as it is socially less acceptable and not good for your credit score. So young adults remain at home with parents for much longer - paying either nothing or very little for their bed and board, leaving them the remainder of their wages to go out, where they find that in order to be "cool" they have to drink the most of all their friends, (although this is a common factor in all age ranges) and find a market place adapted to that end with cheap drinks and an environment that dulls the senses to just how drunk they have become.

I believe however that the good times will come to an end shortly. Society cannot afford the clean up and the drinks industry wont pay for it, but more than that its simply unacceptable for the majority to be driven out of town at night and to live in fear of the violence and vandalism that finds its way into residential areas in the middle of the night.

E


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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:53:48 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Level

You seem to have your heart in the right place, so kudos for that. But yeah, society, humanity in general, is a stinking garbage heap. If I were wealthy, I'd buy an island, there'd be few that would be allowed on it.


If I were wealthy I would create an armada and block your little island from receiving all foods and supplies.

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:54:49 AM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

So in the morning on reflection of last night, I will not go into the town again at night, for what is seen on tv, the police stuff dealing with irrational drunks is very true. It is irrationial and it is illogical, but drink is not the only problem for there is an undercurrent of violence in people, I will in future stick with my local pubs.

As it was the friends that helped out were military, one just back from a second tour in Helmand province, the other a pilot, it seems it is in military people to help out, something inside over rides the fun when there are people who need help. As for the police, yeah I understand they have a difficult job, but they could learn to use their brain when dealing with situations, for they do their service reputation no good at all.

Perhaps what it is, is society has moved on from what I remember it, for I certainly do not remember the level of violence and agitation in people as I witnessed last night, maybe it is a sign that I am getting old, anyway, the town can keep it's violence, I am in future keeping away from it and especially the police, useless fecks as always.

The PTSD that I thought was gone is not, for it is back.




I lived 25 years in Chicago.  When I was able to get out- I did.

There are places where people are civil.

One day you will live there.  You can not change the past. It is over. 



I was thinking that too. And the juiced up kids are on a specific strip that you can avoid and the city is large enough that there is lots of civil places to go and avoid the amatuers.

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 2/20/2010 8:55:30 AM >


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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 8:58:52 AM   
juliaoceania


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Our drinking laws vary by state. Policing sounds like it is part of the problem in the UK. In California we have public intoxication laws, stringent drinking and driving laws, laws against having an open container, and cops often park outside of popular nightclubs looking for drunks to arrest if they are disorderly, or wait for them to attempt to drive.

We also have laws that people who sell alcohol in bars and see people become intoxicated can not only be fined if that person has an accident, but held civilly liable...

The key is not condemning society, it is changing laws to keep society civil.


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 9:35:43 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
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Oh we have all the same laws Julia - the problem is in applying them; the police and Courts and prisons are overwhelmed, despite all the extra funding that was put in.

Meanwhile Trading Standards, also overwhelmed, carry out operations to prevent shop sales to minors but such is rampant; just the other night I had a dozen kids, aged no more than 14-15 outside my house screaming and shouting for an hour, pissed out of their tiny brains and causing mayhem. And you'd better not ask them to move on either - or you'll be arrested on their say so of your abuse and threats. Meanwhile the police are not available.

The only way to start to resolve this mess is to change the laws on how, when and where alcohol is sold, but thereafter we have to get busy with changing our socio-economic model to one in which young people can have goals they can realistically achieve in terms of building a life and becoming a stakeholder in society such that they accept the need to behave properly. We shall always have a small number of 18-21 year olds who play up, just as we've always had - indeed should have for its necessary in many ways for young people to experience chaos in order to prefer order - but when we have a cohort of 18-30 year olds at it, its just too much.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 9:44:09 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Aneirin

Tonight, my first night in the town in five years, drinking with trusted friends and what should happen, but a young lady hyperventilating  after which came later, some pissed up man had punched her in the stomach. Anyway, I cannot walk by and see someones in distress, so I helped out, fiends stopped the hyperventilating and comforted the lady. Pissed up boyfriend turns up and starts a fight with those helping out, I try to reason with pissed up boyfriend, only to be attacked by his friends. The police turn up, and it is me that is questiooned by the police with threats of arrest. I came to the conclusion I was alone, therefore a target for police, the mob, they did nothing about, perhaps too much for them,. Anyway, an ambulance was called, the lady sorted out, and the thumper arrested, but I still got hassle from boyfriend and his friends.

So after tonights foray into the town I have come to the conclusion town is an evil place at night and the PTSD I once suffered from and thought gone, is still there, pissed up people seem to rekindle it.

But my problem was a person in need required help, that is my prime concern, I cannot walk by, I cannot allow a person to suffer in pain and tears,l just have to help out,as it seems to hurt me to see someone unghappy,. But there are others, drunk and looking for fights, hurt upon hurt upon hurt.

I will not go into the town again at nigh,for I cannot deal with violence.



Never mind mate......at least you got to post all about it on a message board.

So you got involved in something and got a crack for your troubles.....it happens...you're not the first or the last....and you're still alive to tell the tale.....

Town is an evil place? Give your fuckin' head a shake man.

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 9:59:23 AM   
domiguy


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You English and your "going to town" speak. It makes me want to kick your fucking ass.

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:04:16 AM   
LadyEllen


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I suggest doing it in English fashion Domi - first, drink 8 cans of strong lager from the supermarket plus a half bottle of vodka. Then amble into town about 9-10pm and frequent everywhere that music is blaring (though beware, for some reason there are queues to get into these places) and drink at least the same again.

Now you are ready to kick anyone's ass - although really you should be kicking their arse; such a correction of your wording in your English state of conciousness ought to be more than enough to get you into a murderous, if uncoordinated, rage - if it isnt then repeat the above drinking programme until it is.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:05:20 AM   
kiwisub12


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Ialdabaoth


quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy
Anerin, Military- are doped up and drugs- to make them fight better.  There is also a RFID chip on them - which effects there moods.   We all have electrical impulses- thru the body.  The electric effects are moods and actions.   Troops are one group  that MK ultra likes to experiment on.


??? Discounting the rest, you realize RFID chips don't work that way, right? I mean, they physically can't work that way.



This is what happens when you get your info. from movies - think "Judge Dread", and the internet conspiracy sites. Common sense and science goes out the window.

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:06:27 AM   
juliaoceania


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From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:

or you'll be arrested on their say so of your abuse and threats. Meanwhile the police are not available.




That is different than it is here


quote:

The only way to start to resolve this mess is to change the laws on how, when and where alcohol is sold, but thereafter we have to get busy with changing our socio-economic model to one in which young people can have goals they can realistically achieve in terms of building a life and becoming a stakeholder in society such that they accept the need to behave properly. We shall always have a small number of 18-21 year olds who play up, just as we've always had - indeed should have for its necessary in many ways for young people to experience chaos in order to prefer order - but when we have a cohort of 18-30 year olds at it, its just too much.


I would ask if you have neighborhood watch programs? Reclaim your neighborhoods


_____________________________

Once you label me, you negate me ~ Soren Kierkegaard

Reality has a well known Liberal Bias ~ Stephen Colbert

Great minds discuss ideas; Average minds discuss events; Small minds discuss people. Eleanor Roosevelt

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:19:45 AM   
popeye1250


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Aneirin, you broke the cardinal rule, never get in the middle of a fight between two drunks.
You should have called the police first. That's what they'll tell you; "don't try to do our job for us."

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:21:55 AM   
LadyEllen


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We have NW alright - but it doesnt work; ultimately it relies on the police to take action on what is reported and nine times out of ten the police already know who the trouble makers are and havent managed to do much about their behaviour anyway. We could blame the police for this but in reality its the whole system of justice that has failed to solve the problem because ultimately there is no realistic prospect of the troublemakers being controlled by the sanctions available - they literally have nothing to lose whatever sanction is put on them and any magistrate who sent people to prison for "public disorder" would soon get his knuckles rapped what with prison overcrowding.

The real problem though, again and again, is the fact that for many people they might as well do exactly as they like - the prospect of them ever getting anywhere in life by being a good citizen is so small as to provide no incentive whatever. We have to get into our heads that not everyone can qualify as a professional or work in an office or shop, and adjust our economy accordingly to provide opportunities for all, according to their particular abilities and inclinations, and a realistic prospect for them to become a stakeholder in the society that has presently cast them onto the rubbish  heap.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:25:55 AM   
LadyEllen


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The difference between the English and the Irish Alice, is that the Irish can handle vast quantities of booze and only get into a fight if there's something to fight about. The English meanwhile cant handle the booze as well as they believe they can and will kick shit out of anyone for no reason - we are descended from pirates remember.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:25:59 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland

I had no idea the English were so violent. Are you sure you're not confusing the Brits with the Irish?



Yes.....we English are extremely violent.....which is why we have one of the lowest murder rates in the world........far lower than Scotland/Germany/US/France/Italy etc etc....and just lower than Japan.

What you're confusing here is someone wandering into a situation and getting a crack with serious crime.

He's still alive.....what's the matter with you people?

Edited to add: and the Irish are a pretty peaceful lot......a good time people.....loads of Irish in Manchester and they're the last people to start trouble....

< Message edited by NorthernGent -- 2/20/2010 10:32:24 AM >


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