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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:29:48 AM   
pahunkboy


Posts: 33061
Joined: 2/26/2006
From: Central Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

or you'll be arrested on their say so of your abuse and threats. Meanwhile the police are not available.




That is different than it is here


quote:

The only way to start to resolve this mess is to change the laws on how, when and where alcohol is sold, but thereafter we have to get busy with changing our socio-economic model to one in which young people can have goals they can realistically achieve in terms of building a life and becoming a stakeholder in society such that they accept the need to behave properly. We shall always have a small number of 18-21 year olds who play up, just as we've always had - indeed should have for its necessary in many ways for young people to experience chaos in order to prefer order - but when we have a cohort of 18-30 year olds at it, its just too much.


I would ask if you have neighborhood watch programs? Reclaim your neighborhoods



That is incredulous.

If a mob of kids is hanging out in front of my place- I can and have told them to move on.

Understand tho that this is a small town of 12,000.

The key - is to link up with at least one neighbor.    Then that way- you are on the same page.

-- we did push for and build the kids a skate park.  

the cities can be very bad- I sure would not expect things to go there as they do here.

the kids party and stuff but not nearly to the point that you describe.

we do have fights over a girl- but that is usually near the bars- or the public housing complex.

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:32:22 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Youre missing the point NG - we ought to be able to go out, have a drink and return home, without having to risk attack and without having to fear getting into trouble. We ought to be able to offer help to someone in trouble, without having a shitstorm descend on us and without risking arrest having been confused with the causer of the problem. We ought to be able to go to bed at night and not be woken at 3am by drunken idiots shouting, fighting and smashing stuff outside our homes. And though we could expect any or all of this to occur occasionally even so, we ought to be able to expect it to be a lot more rare such that the police and Courts can handle it.

E



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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:34:33 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Youre missing the point NG - we ought to be able to go out, have a drink and return home, without having to risk attack and without having to fear getting into trouble.



He wouldn't have had a problem....only he took the option to step into a situation that had nothing to do with him.

And where in this world is there a place without crime?

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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:39:24 AM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		I see the blame lies in the relaxed drinking laws, the government let this mess happen, they relaxed the laws hoping the British people would adopt the continental mentality and sip wines late into the night and then catch a taxi home, how wrong could they have been. Last night in one of these bars, I asked for a coffee having had enough alcohol, nope they did not sell coffee, alcohol only and I noticed at a much higher price than my local. I also know how much ale I drank, for it was ale I was drinking, not the bottled whatevers, but something has occurred now why perhaps I was singled out ; my appearance.  I had envisaged a walk home after the night,which was below freezing and later snowing a distance of  some 6 miles as bus services are non existant at night and taxis hard to get, so I was dressed in full black leather with new rock boots,and accessory chains that coupled with the fact I was wearing my long hair down and was wearing an Aussie leather bush hat and carrying an old gas mask bag with cat food in it, perhaps I was a target because I was clearly different.Walking in shirt sleeves in cold weather is not my thing and the mind boggles at what I saw last night, people in spandex suits, I hate the cold and dress for practicality and warmth, yeah and the leather being motorcyle leathers is protective of sorts, for in the past, I have confronted stanley knife wielding miscreants.

Oh, last night's foray into town , those I was with, were a bunch of belly dancers, we were celebrating our dance teacher's eighteenth birthday for which I had made a silver ring set with amethyst and it pleased me she was so happy with it, so hours of making and sod all sleep for I always leave things to the last minute, was well spent, I was pleased, pity the good mood was ruined by Britain's drinking problem.

Tonight, my friends want to go into the town, the old fogies, but not me, I have told them based on last night, I am not going for I have seen enough.


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Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to juliaoceania)
Profile   Post #: 44
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:39:56 AM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The difference between the English and the Irish Alice, is that the Irish can handle vast quantities of booze and only get into a fight if there's something to fight about. The English meanwhile cant handle the booze as well as they believe they can and will kick shit out of anyone for no reason - we are descended from pirates remember.

E


What a load of old bollocks. The worst thing about England is the social conservatism - even from people describing themselves as liberals.

The English love nothing better than to wallow in the idea that everything is ruined which is why you get something like a non event being turned into the crime of the century.

It's like road rage....the English let other cars out at junctions....courtesy guaranteed....one rogue driver and the world has ended....but you go to France or Greece and you will see real road rage.....but for the English one show of bad manners means we must be the worst around.

Just like a few drunks means we must be the most violent......never mind the fact that we have such a low murder rate.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:44:29 AM   
Aneirin


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Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

Youre missing the point NG - we ought to be able to go out, have a drink and return home, without having to risk attack and without having to fear getting into trouble.



He wouldn't have had a problem....only he took the option to step into a situation that had nothing to do with him.

And where in this world is there a place without crime?


Yeah, maybe it is my fault for stepping into a situation which was not my problem, but I for one cannot walk by when someone especially a woman cannot breath due to hyperventilation and is in severe distress collapsed on the pavement, I can't help it, I just have to help people, it has always been so and if I am to be damned for helping people, than I will be damned, for I will not change that aspect of myself, I will just in future avaoid places where there is the lethal mix of youth, alcohol and violence.


_____________________________

Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:47:24 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I see - so murder is the only true measure of violence? That as long as someone doesnt die then it doesnt count?

This may explain the ineffectiveness of police and Courts. "Raped and beaten?" well youre alive arent you, now on your way".

E

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:49:27 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland

I had no idea the English were so violent. Are you sure you're not confusing the Brits with the Irish?



Yes.....we English are extremely violent.....which is why we have one of the lowest murder rates in the world........far lower than Scotland/Germany/US/France/Italy etc etc....and just lower than Japan.



you are kidding right???

Not sure where your statistic is coming from and not entirely sure which source is the most appropriate, nor do I have the time now to have a deeper look into it, but one source which did pop up confirms my view, which is that the UK is far worse in crime then Germany and that also includes in regards to murder.

at least this statistic here confirms so, but am open to be proven wrong (statistically...personally I would stay in disbelief that the UK should be "safer" then Germany as personally...that's not the case)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders






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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:51:35 AM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline 		violent crime is going down in Chicago. It has followed this trend, I believe, since the mid to late sixties. You would think by the reports of the news agencies that it was getting worse.

Some things are actually getting better even though we like to focus on the belief that they are not.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:55:35 AM   
alicenwondrland


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Joined: 2/10/2010
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quote:

I can certainly confirm Lady Ellens version from over here


quote:

I was under the impression it's different in different areas, just like it is everywhere. I have friends from Manchester and they say it's pretty harsh over there.


quote:

Lol, like some friends and family back home who think, when I mention examples from daily life, that this is only as I am not living that far away from London...well...according to the news there isn't really a difference if you live near the big cities or not...


I mean a variance between neighborhoods- the neighborhood matters more in terms of safety than the country, actual city or region of the world...

< Message edited by alicenwondrland -- 2/20/2010 11:16:58 AM >

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:57:26 AM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

violent crime is going down in Chicago. It has followed this trend, I believe, since the mid to late sixties. You would think by the reports of the news agencies that it was getting worse.

Some things are actually getting better even though we like to focus on the belief that they are not.


well domiguy...when we follow the reports of news agencies...then the UK is far worse than america


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/politics/lawandorder/5712573/UK-is-violent-crime-capital-of-Europe.html



_____________________________

RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 10:58:08 AM   
LadyEllen


Posts: 10931
Joined: 6/30/2006
From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		Crime rates are not the be all and end all however; they rely on crime reports and it would seem to me that if enough victims of crime got it into their heads over a period that reporting a crime served no useful purpose whatever then they should not bother to report it, and as this factor grew then the statistical crime rates would drop regardless of the actual crime rate.

Crime can be a reasonable path in life; after all there is a small chance the crime will be reported, a small chance from that of it being investigated, a small chance from that of you being identified as the perpetrator and a small chance of indictment. Thereafter in theory you ought to be convicted, because no one is indicted without overwhelming evidence (supposedly), but even here you have a chance. And if you should be convicted then you have a good chance of a paltry sentence, even if you go to prison you wont serve the whole sentence.

E

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 11:07:57 AM   
NorthernGent


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Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland

I had no idea the English were so violent. Are you sure you're not confusing the Brits with the Irish?



Yes.....we English are extremely violent.....which is why we have one of the lowest murder rates in the world........far lower than Scotland/Germany/US/France/Italy etc etc....and just lower than Japan.



you are kidding right???

Not sure where your statistic is coming from and not entirely sure which source is the most appropriate, nor do I have the time now to have a deeper look into it, but one source which did pop up confirms my view, which is that the UK is far worse in crime then Germany and that also includes in regards to murder.

at least this statistic here confirms so, but am open to be proven wrong (statistically...personally I would stay in disbelief that the UK should be "safer" then Germany as personally...that's not the case)

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mur-crime-murders



The UK rate will be pushed up by Scotland which has a rate something like 8 times that of England.........

Just out of interest.....how many times have you been attacked since you've been in England?

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Phoenixpower)
Profile   Post #: 53
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 11:08:29 AM   
alicenwondrland


Posts: 340
Joined: 2/10/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The difference between the English and the Irish Alice, is that the Irish can handle vast quantities of booze and only get into a fight if there's something to fight about. The English meanwhile cant handle the booze as well as they believe they can and will kick shit out of anyone for no reason - we are descended from pirates remember.

E


I thought it was ancient Romans?


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Don't HasseltheHoff.
If you don't get *this* tagline- well, then it doesn't say much for your sense of humor. Or maybe you were born after 1990.

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Profile   Post #: 54
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 11:10:44 AM   
alicenwondrland


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent

quote:

ORIGINAL: alicenwondrland

I had no idea the English were so violent. Are you sure you're not confusing the Brits with the Irish?



Yes.....we English are extremely violent.....which is why we have one of the lowest murder rates in the world........far lower than Scotland/Germany/US/France/Italy etc etc....and just lower than Japan.

What you're confusing here is someone wandering into a situation and getting a crack with serious crime.

He's still alive.....what's the matter with you people?

Edited to add: and the Irish are a pretty peaceful lot......a good time people.....loads of Irish in Manchester and they're the last people to start trouble....


I love'em all!!! I'm Irish Scottish AND Anglo and a total anglophile.


_____________________________

Don't HasseltheHoff.
If you don't get *this* tagline- well, then it doesn't say much for your sense of humor. Or maybe you were born after 1990.

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Profile   Post #: 55
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 11:10:51 AM   
juliaoceania


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Joined: 4/19/2006
From: Somewhere Over the Rainbow
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quote:


He's still alive.....what's the matter with you people?



How about quality of life... if one has to stumble over drunks and fears attacks from them as Lady Ellen described, well this is a quality of life issue in my eyes...


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RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 11:11:00 AM   
lusciouslips19


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quote:

The only way to start to resolve this mess is to change the laws on how, when and where alcohol is sold, but thereafter we have to get busy with changing our socio-economic model to one in which young people can have goals they can realistically achieve in terms of building a life and becoming a stakeholder in society such that they accept the need to behave properly.


Or you can just move here where everything is so peachy keen and wunnerful!

< Message edited by lusciouslips19 -- 2/20/2010 11:13:24 AM >

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Profile   Post #: 57
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 11:13:28 AM   
alicenwondrland


Posts: 340
Joined: 2/10/2010
Status: offline
quote:

pleas
quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent


quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The difference between the English and the Irish Alice, is that the Irish can handle vast quantities of booze and only get into a fight if there's something to fight about. The English meanwhile cant handle the booze as well as they believe they can and will kick shit out of anyone for no reason - we are descended from pirates remember.

E


What a load of old bollocks. The worst thing about England is the social conservatism - even from people describing themselves as liberals.

The English love nothing better than to wallow in the idea that everything is ruined which is why you get something like a non event being turned into the crime of the century.

It's like road rage....the English let other cars out at junctions....courtesy guaranteed....one rogue driver and the world has ended....but you go to France or Greece and you will see real road rage.....but for the English one show of bad manners means we must be the worst around.

Just like a few drunks means we must be the most violent......never mind the fact that we have such a low murder rate.


There does seem to be an English tendency towards both hyperbole and gloom.


_____________________________

Don't HasseltheHoff.
If you don't get *this* tagline- well, then it doesn't say much for your sense of humor. Or maybe you were born after 1990.

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Profile   Post #: 58
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 11:15:29 AM   
lusciouslips19


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Joined: 9/8/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

I suggest doing it in English fashion Domi - first, drink 8 cans of strong lager from the supermarket plus a half bottle of vodka. Then amble into town about 9-10pm and frequent everywhere that music is blaring (though beware, for some reason there are queues to get into these places) and drink at least the same again.

Now you are ready to kick anyone's ass - although really you should be kicking their arse; such a correction of your wording in your English state of conciousness ought to be more than enough to get you into a murderous, if uncoordinated, rage - if it isnt then repeat the above drinking programme until it is.

E


I dont wanna kick ass unless you give me Jaigermeister. At least 5 shots. But then I may just wanna git emotional and sob instead....

_____________________________

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: What a shitt society we live in - 2/20/2010 11:18:04 AM   
lusciouslips19


Posts: 9792
Joined: 9/8/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen

The difference between the English and the Irish Alice, is that the Irish can handle vast quantities of booze and only get into a fight if there's something to fight about. The English meanwhile cant handle the booze as well as they believe they can and will kick shit out of anyone for no reason - we are descended from pirates remember.

E


Leave JohnnieBoy out a dis!

_____________________________

Original Pimpette,
Keeper of Original Home Flag and Fire of Mr. Lance Hughes
Charter member of Lance's Fag Hags,
Member of the Subbie Mafia
Princess of typos and it's my prerogative

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 60
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