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January -> Fireplay (9/10/2004 12:03:24 PM)

Hi all,

I was wondering if anybody might talk about their fireplay experiences.

What's it like? What's so fun/thrilling about fireplay? Is it a standalone thing, or do you do it in concert with bondage, or roleplay?

Thanks!

January




MrThorns -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 12:16:39 PM)

The only fireplay that I have personally experienced was during a weekly APEX meeting on the topic Fireplay. I volunteered for one demonstration where the presenter did a fire-cupping on my stomach. He used a metal Snapple juice cap, (set on top of a leather disk to prevent me being burned by the contact with the metal), filled with alcohol and set it on fire. He then placed a whisky tumbler over the flame and created the cupping vaccuum as the oxygen was burned away. Very interesting sensation, plus a large, circular "hickey" on my stomach.

I have seen some outstanding demonstrations regarding fireplay but still dont have the confidence to try it safely on someone else.

~Thorns




MaitresseEden -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 12:31:11 PM)

Fireplay is one of my favorite things to do. I do it often. I find it to be a wonderfil relaxation tool with novice subs, and a wonderful visusal as well. I often have them lay down and look up to the mirror on the ceiling whilst I run fire over their genitals and so forth. Of course with men the hair issue can be a rather pungent one, hence it isn't something that can be done everywhere and every place. But I dearly enjoy it.

Ms. Eden.

This is a cropped photo of a basic fire done across my previous subs backside.

[image]local://upfiles/43102/D1313C7C02D84361B1E18E1B0D334D23.jpg[/image]




ShrewWhisperer -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 12:31:48 PM)

I have a couple of interestingly shaped scars on my lower back...though I've never got a mirror at the right angle to see them...from fire-cracker fuses put on the skin back in my days of service, the thrill like most major pain inducements is the pain. I've used torches during scare plays, put a gauze blindfold on the sub, so she can see the light but not much else, let the heat get close while keeping up either a correction banter or to show the consequences of not following an order she has been reluctant (but willing, just old programing has kept her from being able to do, I'd never use torture to break someone's limits, even if it'd work regularly) to follow.

You can also really dazzling things in a dark room with the torches which has the added benfiti of mezmering the subject.

If your thing or your dom's thing is pain...then just becareful with it, the RN's who have worked emergency rooms can probably tell stories on them that weren't careful..

I liked thorn's bit, never tried it, but it sounds like it woudl have the right effect.




sub4hire -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 1:46:36 PM)

The only thing I have to add hers is be CAREFUL BE VERY CAREFUL. Don't just try fireplay because you think you can. Or its cool.
I was lied to the first time we did it. We were told it would kill the roots of your hairs and the hair would not grow back.
However, I love watching the flames over my body. Despite being lied to.

The only thing different that I am my Dom do that I have not seen anyone else do is...I hold the wet washcloth. I am the only one who can judge when its really burning. Usually it burns out like it should. Too much alcohol though and it can cause serious burns.
So, I put myself out if need be.




UtahGoddess -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 2:18:57 PM)

Fireplay was something I was always reluctant to try. Afterall, my number one rule is "Don't break Your boys!" LOL

However last March Ms Zanthia came for 2 weeks to stay with me. In addition to having great fun double Topping boys, she taught me fireplay. (In exchange I gifted her with a Violet Wand and taught her how I use it)

I LOVE IT!

It is far safer than I imagined. Fire seems to communicate to a very primal part of a submissive. It combines fear and sensation to "bring out their marshmellow center" (Ms Zanthia).

A variety of emotional responses from laughter to tears can occur during aftercare. Overall it is a very intense kind of play, but wayyyyyy fun!

Ms Sandi




MaitresseEden -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 2:23:12 PM)

I agree that dafety is paramount. I believe strongly that one should not attempt something without at least learning how it is down from 2-3 other people. I was fortunate to have been taught fireplay by several talented people, and I learned things from both of them and integrated it into my own style of play.

Anyone got a match?

Ms.Eden.

[image]local://upfiles/43102/07BC784D486749FAAE0749852B53C585.jpg[/image]




proudsub -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 2:27:36 PM)

quote:

I find it to be a wonderfil relaxation tool with novice subs, and a wonderful visusal as well.


Relaxation for whom? I can't imagine being very relaxed if someone were playing with fire around me. But i have never tried it, and probably never will.




sub4hire -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 2:32:02 PM)

quote:

Relaxation for whom? I can't imagine being very relaxed if someone were playing with fire around me. But i have never tried it, and probably never will.


Never say never Proud. Fireplay is safe. Yep, I know that sounds odd but I don't do things that are unsafe. Anyone who knows me could tell you that. True, with the wrong person it could turn harmful to your health. The right one its fun.




MrThorns -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 2:43:12 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: proudsub

quote:

I find it to be a wonderfil relaxation tool with novice subs, and a wonderful visusal as well.


Relaxation for whom? I can't imagine being very relaxed if someone were playing with fire around me. But i have never tried it, and probably never will.


From what I have seen from a lot of submissives is that "Never" is about 6 months...

~Thorns




MaitresseEden -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 2:49:44 PM)

If done correctly it feels like a warm massage. It is one of the few activities that I will allow to be done to me, as I am not a masochist and there is really no pain involved.. Trust is a must.. .. but pain occur only if done by unskilled hands. Furthermore, it is extremely sensual, the kiss of fire.

Ms. Eden




sting516 -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 2:53:09 PM)

While not an all time favorite of mine, i've enjoyed fire play a couple of times...one time, it was the only time a transgendered person played with me...she put some alcohol on my back, and then lit it with a violet wand...she was very good at it....though make sure the area is well shaved, unless you want to smell like burnt hair!! LOL


sting




Destinysskeins -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 2:55:05 PM)

Greetings,

i've not yet tried fireplay (though i'd dearly love to!) but i can see where it would be relaxing. One, the warmth from the fire could be seriously enjoyable and two, what happens after your endorphins have hit a all time high? (mmm, yeah - that sweet, nice relaxed feeling).

Hmm - one thing that just occured to me that perhaps some of you experienced with this sorta play might answer for me. Could you add scented oils to the flammable mix in order to add a bit of cool aromatherapy to the whole experience?

Oh, yeah and to answer January's original question - i think it'd be incredibly more enjoyable when combined with bondage (*grin* helpless, knowing that if something did go wrong there's not a damn thing you can do about it other than trust your Dom - hell yeah!)

Well wishes!




MaitresseEden -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 3:05:08 PM)

quote:


Hmm - one thing that just occured to me that perhaps some of you experienced with this sorta play might answer for me. Could you add scented oils to the flammable mix in order to add a bit of cool aromatherapy to the whole experience?


No, it is imperative that the skin be clean without oils or added chemicals, as that can alter the temperature of the flame and cause burning. You can however light a bunch of scented candles around the room and create a sacrifical alter of sorts. I find it best to incorporate fire as a warm up to a scene to help get into head space or as a bonding form of after care, provided the skin is intact where the fire is placed.

Ms.Eden




smilezz -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 3:20:21 PM)

Alas...my only fire experience comes from blowing things up. *grinz*

This type of play is something that i would like to venture into at some point, so am going to keep reading all the responses and hope that Thorns one day, with all the people we know will venture into it with me! *beamz*

~smilezz~




proudsub -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 4:00:49 PM)

quote:

Never say never Proud. Fireplay is safe.


Ok maybe someday. Only about 5 years ago i said no pain to my online dom who introduced me to bdsm, LOL that changed real quickly.




Girru -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 9:13:11 PM)

I have been doing fire play for a few years now and thought I would add my comments on the subject.

MrThorn's reference to cupping is interesting (and is something I intend to experiment with since I enjoy cupping as well), but I associate fire play with the type of activity similar as to what is seen in Maitresse Eden's pic in her earlier post on this topic. The latter is what I am referencing in this particular post.

To answer the original question, fire play for me is definitely a stand alone kind of thing. (That isn't to say that you couldn't combine it with bondage or role play, but it is not my thing.) Relaxing music in the background and dim lighting are good for setting the mood I am attempting to achieve. As a top, doing fire play provides a rush from a combination of things: knowing the effect it is having on the person I am playing, knowing the risks involved, the intimacy that I am being allowed to share in, and the touch of my skin against someone else's.

I agree with the references in various posts that playing with fire is dangerous. It is the general consensus in our local community that fire play qualifies as edge play, but that is part of where the enjoyment comes from for many. The intent for me in doing fire play is not to inflict pain. This type of play for me is about relaxation and enjoyment. As with any type of play, the direction the play goes depends upon the top(s). Fire can be very painful or quite erotic; regardless, it is very intense for most that experience it.

Is it "safe"? (Is anything we do "safe"?) If the top knows what they are doing because they have been taught and experimented then it is not as dangerous. Like I said before, I consider it edge play. If not done properly, the results can be seriously harmful or worse. This is definitely something you should learn the basics from someone else before you try it for yourself.

Scented oils? Not for me. I usually request that people not be wearing any type of body oil, lotion or perfume if I am going to be playing them with fire. These things are flammable. So is hair spray. The only serious injury connected to fire I have ever heard of resulted from a sub that had bathed with oils and then later was played with fire. Maybe I am overly cautious, but I can live with that and so can the people I play.

Notes of interest....Doing fire play will sensitize the skin-if you're going to be doing some other type of play soon afterwards, expect that the skin will react differently than normal. Violet wands will sensitize the skin in the same way-I do not recommend doing the two activities to one sub in the same night. You can do fire play on open wounds (such as received playing with a single tail or in knife play)-we call this "slash and burn".




Sundew02 -> RE: Fireplay (9/10/2004 10:38:50 PM)

When fireplay peaked my interest, I went to a seminar and learned all the demonstrator was willing to share. I then practiced the art on the demo sub with her watching until I got it right. Clean, well shaved areas with the proper equipment is the only way to go. I liked making designs with the alcohol, and dimming the lights to watch. But as I favor using the back, I use the rule that using only 100% cotton clothe to smother the flames works best. If the submissive is standing I protect their hair (of course this depends on the lenght). I have never burned anyone. And plan on keeping it that way. I love variety, so do I do fireplay yes, routinely, no. Sundew




MaitresseEden -> RE: Fireplay (9/11/2004 5:36:31 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Girru

quote:

Is it "safe"? (Is anything we do "safe"?) If the top knows what they are doing because they have been taught and experimented then it is not as dangerous. Like I said before, I consider it edge play. If not done properly, the results can be seriously harmful or worse. This is definitely something you should learn the basics from someone else before you try it for yourself.


Welcome to the boards Girru.. Can't think of anyone better to weigh in on this topic as your one of the people who taught me, and one of the few people I would trust to enflame me. I'm not into "slash and burn" however that's too sadisitic and I would NEVER do anything so wicked... lol..

Glad you've joined

Ms.Eden




WayHome -> RE: Fireplay (9/11/2004 6:48:03 AM)

I'm a fan of fire play. This conversation could get confusing unless you realize there are actually three different techniques being discussed.

The first is cupping. Nowadays most people do cupping using the commercially available pumps but the original way they did it in Chinese medicine (and also in western medicine in the middle ages) was with small glass bowls and fire as thorns described. It's the same effect but a lot more dramatic. It's very cool. Though this technique involves fire, it's not really what most people call "fire play" and really deserves it's own thread.

The second technique is what I think MaitresseEden is showing in her picture (can't tell for sure of course). This is the kind of thing you see circus entertainers doing and involves torches. I've seen only two people do that as play over the years and it was very cool but not something I have experience with. It does require quite a bit of trust since there can be fine lines between sensual, painful, and damaging.

The third technique is by far the most common (what Gloria is talking about, it might be what MaitresseEden is doing also) and involves spreading alcohol on the subs skin directly and then lighting it. This is something I enjoy quite a bit. It is pretty safe when done right. The biggest danger probably comes if you do it on a bed or other form of cloth or have a lot of absorbant material nearby. It is then possible to spill alcohol (possibly without realizing it) and then light it accidentally and it can burn very hot and be hard to put out due to wicking effect. If you are concerned, be sure to place your sub on a vinyl or other non-absorbant surface. That way spills will be obvious even in low light and even if one does light, damage is unlikely.

I have experimented with a lot of techniques over the years as far as lighting. The way I first did it was the way someone taught in a class I took and I got "daubers" like you use to apply dye to leather and can get at Tandy or an art supply store. I soaked these in alcohol and then lit them to make little torches for lighting the sub. I didn't like that. The little torches were hard to extinguish and relight if I wanted to set them down to use both hands on my sub for something like repositioning abound sub. Also, if you hit them too quickly to the skin, they would add to the alcohol already there and thus change the amount of burn I had already precisely decided on.

I tried other sorts of flames to light the alcohol but eventually I decided I liked a plain old lighter best. It seemed a bit clunky and unromantic at first but the control is excellent and I can pick it up or set it down as often as I like and mot break the flow of the scene. Also, since fire play is partly about fear and anticipation, the little "schtik" sound of the lighter quickly developes a pavlovian response and just the simple sound can cause a nice little "startle".

I've noticed different people apply the alcohol differently. Most use 70% isopropyl. Most put it on thick enough that it will burn on it's own a good time if you don't extinguish it (like with the wet cloth Gloria described). I like to spread it really thin using 90% isopropyl. This way it tends to flicker and jump rather than provide a steady burn and it will actually go out on it's own before causing a burn (but not before pain). I use 90% because it's spread thin enough that 70% sometimes won't light or won't stay lit. I use my hand to put it out instead of a cloth. I light with my left hand and wait about a second before sweeping over it with my right which puts it out and gets rid of any residual alcohol giving me a clean surface for the next pass. If she's not already overly sensitive, I might let it go 2-3 seconds but usually my sub is wound so tightly that she "feels" pain long before it's been on long enough to actually hurt.

I didn't do any fire play with my wife for a long time and when we did it again it was like the first time. (I should mention I usually do some flogging before fire play so that nerves are suitably primed). She was in a different headspace and having some "bad fear" (as opposed to the good kind) and couldn't stop squirming. She was not having a good time and, though she generally trusts me implicitly, she was convinced she was getting burned. She was squirming against her bonds and ready to quit. She might have been trying to think of her safeword even[;)] I told her to trust me and that she was not harmed (that always works) but to no avail. The scene was going bad and my impulse was to call it quits. Instead I stopped, took off my pants, got up onto the table next to her kneeling with my crotch about 2 feet from her head, doused my cock and balls liberally and looked her in the eye while I lit them on fire. I calmly waited until they had been burning about twice as long as the longest I had done on her belly, and then doused with my hand. I allowed her to inspect closely for any signs of redness or burns. (I should mention she knows I'm pretty protective of my dangly bits, almost as much as I am of her)

That did the trick. Suddenly she realized that she had built up the fear and pain in her head and that this was an opportunity to overcome, to open, and to go past. The rest of the night went very well for both of us. Later she requested fire play more regularly...


Leto

PS-Someone might not have lied to Gloria. They might have actually believed the thing about the hair not growing back since I have seen that myth written as fact in at least one article. It can be used for hair removal and is about as effective as waxing, though it stinks like hell if you do. It will grow back of course.

PPS-No, I'm not into CBT, don't offer! [:@]




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