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RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 9:14:47 AM

MstrPBK

Posts: 573
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I have not had the circumstances to deal with that - yet ... But I have had what I call a 'sideways incident' that might be worth noting here. I want to say about 2 Thanksgivings ago I spent time with my family. It was not until afterwards my brother mentioned to me 'in passing" that I had forgotten my 'please' and 'thank yous' when I asked for assistance over the period of the day and that he felt i was rather rude of me not to remember.

In hindsight I realized that the behavior was not intentional within the structure of the family gathering. At the same time it also demonstrated in a inadvertent way that (at least my) family members do watch what is occurring around them more than I think.

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 21

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 9:33:18 AM

MasterSlaveLA

Posts: 3991
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: lovingpet

I know people who are, for lack of another word, more or less "vanilla" don't really exactly get it... the idea that one person cedes control to another... is just a foreign concept to them.

Honestly, I've yet to enounter "He Can't Order You Around Like That" (or similar flavored comment) in my personal life, but instead, see this sort of thing running RAMPANT on/in forums such as these when it comes to Male/female TPE (Total Power Exchange) dynamics.

Loads of supposed sympathetic coddling and cries of "Dump his ass!" (i.e., enabling... to violate consensually relinquished control/rights that were supposedly given when entering the dynamic)... "Girl, you ain't gotta be no 'doormat' to no man...<snap!>". Well... actually... yes you do, if that's the dynamic you willingly/knowingly entered into; and many have entered into such a dynamic, but when the BDSM bedroom fantasy doesn't live up to the reality (usually around the time you're on your knees and scrubbing the toilet), then it's bitch, moan, complain, and off to the fora for some hugs and advice from people who are ALONE (usually for good reason) about what to do.

quote:

Those are the times when answering this question becomes important and the "take a flying leap" approach just isn't good enough. How would you approach it in these times of situations?

Less coddling... more, "Suck it up, Princess... you knew what you agreed to."

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(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 22

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 9:53:23 AM

Jaybeee

Posts: 532
Joined: 2/2/2010
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This all goes back to the vanilla principle that, when you see a couple having an argument and the fella gets slap-happy, you do NOT interefere. Growing up, I never understood WHY we shouldn't intervene, I remember being 17 (MANY moons ago!) and at a restaurant with the family, some bloke two tables away starting slapping his girl, she started crying, having been trained to NEVER lay an angry finger on a lady I stood up to give him what for, and Mum told me , "Jay, don't!! Nothing to do with you!" Her word was good enough, and as an adult, I never gave it any further thought. Until now, and now it all makes sense.

< Message edited by Jaybeee -- 2/23/2010 9:55:53 AM >

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 23

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 9:53:32 AM

onlyfreelycaged

Posts: 254
Joined: 4/3/2007
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I've never ever had that problem.. *all* my friends know that I'm kinky.., so I get alot of the "are you enjoying this?" question..

*edited to add*

if my famliy were to ask, I'd tell them that I'm happy, and not getting as many panic attacks now.

< Message edited by onlyfreelycaged -- 2/23/2010 9:56:29 AM >

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 24

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 9:58:06 AM

BeIgnited

Posts: 191
Joined: 6/23/2008
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In general, I find that my friends are far more comfortable with the slap-and-tickle aspects of BDSM than with a power exchange. So I just avoid talking about those sorts of things with them.

I told one friend that sometimes he picked out clothes he wanted me to wear, something I consider relatively tame, and she turned to me and said "I don't think I like him any more." I just shrugged, assured her I liked as much as (or more) than he did, and made a mental note not to mention something like that to her again.

I can't remember anyone commenting on how he's behaved towards me in public. Some of them probably think I'm over-attentive, but I've never had any reaction more 'negative' than "why do you do that?" Most people are satisfied by "Because I like it."

(in reply to MasterSlaveLA)

Post #: 25

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 10:13:54 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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I think I'm seeing something in this that others aren't. I could be totally off base. I don't think I am, however.

In My opinion, if you're looking at the situation that I think you are, the best option that you have is to educate the person outside the dynamic to the best of your ability. There are some things that go with that. I'm not saying that you haven't attempted that before. Also, you are going to have to accept that they are never going to 'get it' the way you do. What you do is you make the best attempt to find the middle ground in that. Improve their understanding on the matter while at the same time you have to understand that they aren't wired the same way you are, so it's never going to run out equal. It's a learning process and that means it takes time and effort.

One other thing. Granted, in most cases in My life, casual acquaintances and such, I most likely would tell them that if they couldn't handle the way I live, I'd tell them to screw off. There are a few, a very few that I don't feel that I have that option with. In answering this question, I was thinking of those very few.

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Post #: 26

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 11:09:39 AM

lovingpet

Posts: 4270
Joined: 6/19/2005
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There is a lot here and I will see if I can address things thoroughly.

This is not my norm to explain my personal life to people. This is a very intimate and specific case. Things that impact me directly impact this person and they are not at all comfortable with this dynamic with my partner despite my thinking I was being pretty frank about the situation. Not even my own mother gets this kind of regard because it just flat doesn't impact her life. This is a very special situation, much like LP was alluding to and I think she was right on the mark in her thinking if my mind is where I think hers is.

As for education, I know a person who isn't "wired" for this won't get it the same way I will, but talk about missing the boat! Everything from Loving Dominant to When Someone You Love Is Kinky to freaking Castlerealm when it was still around and still this person has not apparently the remotest clue. Long discussions and detailed conversations about the nature of my relationship and still I get such a question. I really don't know what else to do. I have even taken this person to my bdsm club with me and this person has met real life people and talked to them at length and still....nada. Maybe seeing is understanding, but somehow I doubt it.

lovingpet

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(in reply to LadyPact)

Post #: 27

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 11:13:52 AM

onlyfreelycaged

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Joined: 4/3/2007
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what about going with "It makes me happy" then giving them time to see that it does make you happy?

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 28

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 11:20:17 AM

lovingpet

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Joined: 6/19/2005
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This person has already seen that it does make me happy. Any further evidence would only come after a crucial life change and one that's not easily undone, so I'd rather folks be all hunky dory beforehand.

lovingpet

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If you put your head into more, you'd have to put your back into less. ~Me

10 Fluffy pts.

(in reply to onlyfreelycaged)

Post #: 29

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 11:25:17 AM

chicagoswitch

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Joined: 6/11/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
however, the comments they make aren't negative...to the contrary, they wonder/marvel/comment at how well we get along, how happy we make each other and how passionate we are about each other.

I think it is wonderful that the 2 of you have this happiness and passion!

(in reply to Mercnbeth)

Post #: 30

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 11:32:50 AM

sblady

Posts: 433
Joined: 9/28/2007
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Initally, it surprised my friends and family that I "allowed" Sir to make the decisions. If I said I had to check with him before I did a particular thing, they gave me a bewildered look. I'm sure they didn't know what to think as I'm fairly assertive and *cough, dominant at work and in other areas of my life. They didn't ask nor did they receive an explanation.

These days, we rarely hear comments especially since others can see how happy we are, plus I'm just a bit outspoken so I'm sure some things are left unsaid.

< Message edited by sblady -- 2/23/2010 11:33:30 AM >

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Post #: 31

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 11:33:11 AM

Mercnbeth

Posts: 11766
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quote:

ORIGINAL: chicagoswitch

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mercnbeth
however, the comments they make aren't negative...to the contrary, they wonder/marvel/comment at how well we get along, how happy we make each other and how passionate we are about each other.

I think it is wonderful that the 2 of you have this happiness and passion!

aww, shucks, thanks!!!

it comes as no suprise to the people peripherally involved in our lives that we compliment each other so well...except his parents find it incredibly curious how someone so devoid of genetic Italian or Sicilian influence can so embody all the personality traits they attribute to a good wife/woman for their son.

(in reply to chicagoswitch)

Post #: 32

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 11:48:14 AM

SlaveSimone

Posts: 95
Joined: 3/17/2008
From: Denver, Co
Status: offline

My response is usually something to the effect of "I'm a big girl, if I felt like I was in an unhealthy situation I am fully capable of taking care of it" This generally has gotten my parents to get off my back, at least until a new issue comes up. In other cases I've responded more specifically to particular acts that elicits the don't-let-him-boss-you-around comments with "I don't feel like his request is unreasonable". I've also had to pretty much eliminate contact for a while because the person just couldn't leave the subject alone. She was ultimately projecting her self onto me, assuming that the things she wanted for her self were the same things I wanted for myself, and had decided that it was up to her to rescue me from my "bad relationship". Leaving the situation with her all together was the only way for me to truly get my message across effectively. Sometimes words just fail us, and we're left to decide if the effort is really worth someone who refuses to let us walk our own paths in peace.

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 33

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 12:17:47 PM

ownedbyPF

Posts: 126
Joined: 2/18/2010
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lovingpet~

Okay, I may have misunderstood something, but I think you said this person hasn't actually been around the two of you together. So maybe this person assumes the way you two would act together would make them uncomfortable, when in fact it wouldn't, they just don't know it wouldn't because they haven't seen it. They have preconceived ideas from all the reading etc... So perhaps the only way for them to get past it is to actually "witness" it. Master and I have a strong undercurrent going of who runs this show and we have three kids... one of which is 17... but no one is uncomfortable because as you mentioned things aren't overt. So maybe the solution actually lies in them "seeing" it. Not hearing about it. Not talking about it, but really seeing it. (I hope you followed that, and if I misread, sorry I wasted the space!) :)

Secondly, in a way it sounds like they are refusing to even acknowledge that it's okay to have different things work for different people. Kinda like they are holding it over your head... you have to have my stamp of approval... almost using it as some form of emotional blackmail, or a passive aggressive way of needling you... maybe? Kinda like the 15 year old girl who will only accept mom's new boyfriend if she gets_________ (fill in the blank) What I'm saying is, is there an ulterior motive, conscience or not, on this persons part that causes them to flat out refuse the idea that you can like something they don't?

It sounds like tricky situation, good luck!
~s

(in reply to lovingpet)

Post #: 34

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 2:02:55 PM

hisdarlinsweetie

Posts: 55
Joined: 12/29/2006
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Loving pet, I have the same question, but in regards to my 10 year old daughter who knows me as the Boss of the house. (I've been a single mom since she was 3) She sees that I ask my Sir for permission to do things and I follow his directives, even when they are at odds with my initial decisions or tastes. She has questioned why? I tell her because I care about my Sir and it makes me happy to do things he likes. In general she's ok with this answer, but sometimes she isn't. I teach her to be strong and independent, and she occasionally sees my actions, in regards to my Sir, counter to what I am teaching her. I think she's too young to really discuss our D/s relationship.

For my parents, sister, and others close to me who are adults, I just say it makes me happy...plus they can see how happy we are together.

< Message edited by hisdarlinsweetie -- 2/23/2010 2:06:37 PM >

(in reply to ownedbyPF)

Post #: 35

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 2:38:43 PM

HisSub1213

Posts: 219
Joined: 11/3/2008
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This may be slightly off topic, but I actually lost a long time friend because he couldn't understand. Not that he doesn't have a "Kink" of his own, which I fully supported and encouraged him to explore, but he couldn't understand my need for "abuse" as he put it. In addition to that, he is definately submissive and couldn't give me what I need in a relationship. I tried to explain, over and over again, but all he could see was that I was being used and abused and, in the end, he ended the friendship.

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(in reply to ownedbyPF)

Post #: 36

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 3:28:43 PM

littlewonder

Posts: 15659
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I just say "yes he can" and walk away. I've yet to be questioned further about it.

(in reply to CalifChick)

Post #: 37

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 4:01:23 PM

dreamerdreaming

Posts: 2839
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"Sure he can! Its yummy!"

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Post #: 38

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 6:26:12 PM

lizi

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This topic came up with 2 friends that I see almost daily. They feel that my 'boyfriend' is too controlling and 'unfair'. I kind of let it go and just talked about him/us in the way that most normal couples do until their concern came up one too many times. I then said something like I wanted my relationship with my guy to be the way it is and I am 100% comfortable with it. That I asked him myself to take control over certain things for certain reasons and that was what I wanted. I have found with past experience that I preferred things this way and I liked it, it makes me happy. That I have never been treated so lovingly by a man before and I was totally sold on our relationship the way we structured it. I'm happy, end of story.

They have since backed off and it's not come up again. They do seem to have private reservations about it still but that's ok as long as they don't get in my face about it. We don't have to agree, no one HAS to convert the other to their way of thinking. I understand they care for me and have concerns, they understand I am an adult and make my own choices. I also refuse to act like it's a topic I shouldn't talk about...he and I....so I talk about what we have planned for the weekend and what we do just like any other couple. We're a couple and we're in love and we're happy and that's all most people need to know.

(in reply to dreamerdreaming)

Post #: 39

RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That - 2/23/2010 7:31:42 PM

Missokyst

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Joined: 9/9/2006
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My X always said please and thank you, even though it was he that called the shots. When someone pointed out how that did not seem dominant to him, he replied, I have no problem with the manners my parents taught me. When did you decide that polite considerations were not necessary any more?
In his view being polite was simply the way to carry on the way he was taught. Later we laughed at the way the children of the other guy behaved. No manners.. and also given free ability to "express themselves" so as not to stifle their creativity. Real winners, with creative ways to destroy stuff.

And OP... just tell them you are being true to yourself, someone who enjoys catering to someone. And add.. "Is there something about me being who I am that you find distasteful?"

quote:

ORIGINAL: MstrPBK

I have not had the circumstances to deal with that - yet ... But I have had what I call a 'sideways incident' that might be worth noting here. I want to say about 2 Thanksgivings ago I spent time with my family. It was not until afterwards my brother mentioned to me 'in passing" that I had forgotten my 'please' and 'thank yous' when I asked for assistance over the period of the day and that he felt i was rather rude of me not to remember.

In hindsight I realized that the behavior was not intentional within the structure of the family gathering. At the same time it also demonstrated in a inadvertent way that (at least my) family members do watch what is occurring around them more than I think.

MstrPBK
St. Paul, MN USA

< Message edited by Missokyst -- 2/23/2010 7:34:16 PM >

(in reply to MstrPBK)

Post #: 40

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