RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That

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lovingpet -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/25/2010 5:54:46 AM)
Finding this whole world was a huge thing and still is. Not for one second did I not realize how much it would affect others in my life. I can only reassure them that I am still me, just a me that is doing a whole lot better now that I was before. It would be great if everyone could just be happy for me and roll with the punches so to speak, but it's not that easy and I don't blame them. Now I have the delicate job of relationship work to do. I'm okay with that. [:)] lovingpet

camille65 -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/25/2010 6:22:33 AM)
I went through something similiar, when I got married at 24 (oh that seems so long ago!!) it was to a totally vanilla guy. While I knew there was something inside of me struggling to emerge, I figured I could control it and also that I could convince my husband to eventually explore it. At the time I did not see the inherent unfairness of what I was asking from him, I was asking that he be someone he wasn't. It was very difficult having so much of myself unfulfilled. Not so much sexually (although that was a problem) but that my ever less hidden submissive side had no counterpart. I felt like I was floundering along the wrong road and it was painful. I think looking back it was just as painful for him to see that he couldn't give me what I needed. It was just not fair to him. Eventually it was also unfair of me to be living a half life. I began to explore online, chat rooms and forums like this one really opened my eyes to what I was missing. So I tried to share, I tried to show it to him but it repulsed him. That felt like a rejection of me and things got worse. After way too long struggling like that (plus a whole lot of other things that happened) I decided that we both would be happier if we were not stuck in a mostly mismatched marriage. LP I feel in part like it is my fault the thread turned unhappy for you and I am sorry about that, it's just that your OP sounded familiar and painful to me so I wanted to help. In order to help I needed a bit more information, so again I'm sorry if it turned in the wrong direction.

lovingpet -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/25/2010 7:03:19 AM)
It's not your fault Camille. I had a sinking suspicion it would come up eventually, but chose to wait it out for a bit. Some nice advice came prior and some good insights came after and even privately. hugs Honestly, it was seeing that he tried out this whole thing and it just wasn't who he was that lead me to looking for a partner. I had to honor who he was and not try to force him to be what he wasn't. I am sure we might be running into the same thing again (poly vs mono this time). I want him to be who he is. I need to be who I am. Hopefully those two people can harminously continue together. Possibly not. I don't want anybody shoved into boxes they don't fit. I don't want anyone hurt. I want all of us to be happy AND healthy. ALL of us. I hope that's not so terrible. lovingpet

petmonkey -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/25/2010 9:55:03 AM)
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ranja -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 2:28:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet quote: ORIGINAL: ranja Ah things get less muddy... or more depending on how you look upon it... The 'other person' you keep referring to is actually your husband ... who should be nr One really ... imagine for a husband to be degraded to a title like 'the other person' ... unless he is into cuckolding you surely can see a problem there can't you? i am with Dreamer and also Des i think you want your cake and eat it and now crumbs are getting stuck in your throat... I do not understand how a submissive woman who is married can ever be 24-7 with a Master who is not her husband unless her husband is a willing slave in all senses to the Master too. It seems you and your Master have some more manipulation of the unreasonable difficult sod to do. I do understand how a woman who is unfulfilled in a marriage can take a lover and in most cases i would advise her to keep it a secret unless she does not care about the marriage anymore. Good luck with it all... Wow! Okay. He wasn't relegated to any kind of nominal position by this post. I did not bring up the nature of that relationship because of just these sorts of responses. I knew good and well that people were going to choke on the word spouse. This isn't some wandering heart situation. This isn't something he was cast into. He walked through all these gates of his own accord. He's not remotely dominant nor is he slave. He is simply vanilla him and that's fine. He doesn't have to be anything else. I think the sooner we get back to just being as much the us we were before this journey started, the better off potentially. There are some recalibrations that must occur based upon the fact that I have had so many changes, but they really don't have to be so dramatic and over the top as he is trying to make them out to be. I'm not choking on anything. If a grown person cannot thoroughly explore something, agree to that same thing, and carry it out in the way it was agreed upon, then I can't help him. I don't coddle people when it comes to making informed choices and sticking with them. He doesn't read the boards. This thread was for my benefit only. It is quickly becoming less than beneficial the more people want to pretend to know my relationships better than I do. I know the history of all this and how carefully everything has proceeded and how much extreme effort was put into making sure my husband was always my first consideration and his feelings and thoughts always taken into account. It's offensive to have it viewed otherwise. I have a better reputation here (for whatever a reputation is worth online). I deserve better than these kinds of baseless extrapolations. lovingpet Loving Pet, i hope you manage to work it all out to your satisfaction, my opimion is fastly different from yours on this subject as you know from reading other threads that were about cheating. i know that you think, that by being open and honest about everything, what you are trying to achieve is NOT cheating... but in my book it is worse... you are pushing your husband into second place... you make him have to share you, you allow him to notice that he is sharing you... and you want every body to be happy for you... I think you will have to face up to reality... this is NO way to treat a husband unless the husband is cuckold or decides (with your consent) to share you. He might even be ok with you having a toyboy... but to be shoved into second place by another male? a supposed Master?... no i don't think so ... and i think you are very naive if you think this is ever going to work out. I am not sure about your living arrangements, you mentioned a move... have you moved in with your Master? in that case ending the marriage seems the way forward... Has your Master moved into your marital home? well, if the marriage is of any value to you i would advice to have the Master move out asap... Also you might be losing control over all procedings... does your Master still want you if your marriage should end? Is your husband so discontent (ashamed even) that he might end the marriage? you might endup losing everything. I can not help it that you find my opinion offensive... maybe you should not have put the problem out here in the first place then? i do not know what extrapolations means and my internet connection is about to be turned of... my curfew... good luck with it all... i remain of the opinion that secretly cheating would have been the most honerable option... as total honesty is not always appreciated or fruitful, as you are discovering now. Again good luck

hisdarlinsweetie -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 7:36:35 AM)
Loving pet, I understand your frustration with the situation because both you and your husband agreed that you could find a dominant and the relationship with your dominant could be 24/7. I have to say that there are many times when I have thought that I would be ok with something, or even thought it would be a positive thing; but ended up feeling really negative about it. It wasn't because I lied to myself or anyone else who might be involved. I just didn't really know how I would react because I had never experienced the situation before. My guess (and I could be way off base here) is your husband thought he'd be ok with it because he hadn't really realized what 24/7 really encompassed and how it might affect his and your time together. He probably didn't really think that he would have to deal with your other relationship on a daily basis (no matter how much you might have told him he would have to before you entered into your relationship with your dominant). Everything you do for your dominant in your husband's presence is a reminder that you belong to your dominant. I can tell by your posts that you have tried to educate and inform your husband all along. That's commendable, but it doesn't stop the hurt/jealousy of being confronted daily with evidence that the person he loves and thought was his (not in a BDSM way, but in a partnership way) has given herself to someone else. It hurts to know you can't give the person you love what they need. It's easier to get annoyed/angry at your wife than truly admit that your not being able to meet your wife's needs might ultimately mean that the two of you aren't compatible enough to stay together happily. I hope everything works out for you. Unfortunately, I don't have much advice other than to talk with your husband about his feelings. If he can articulate his hurt/jealousy, than the two of you might be able to figure out ways to lessen those feelings. If he can't articulate his feelings and just says he doesn't understand why you allow your dominant to dominate you, I don't think you've got much of a chance of making things better.

lovingpet -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 1:35:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: ranja quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet quote: ORIGINAL: ranja Ah things get less muddy... or more depending on how you look upon it... The 'other person' you keep referring to is actually your husband ... who should be nr One really ... imagine for a husband to be degraded to a title like 'the other person' ... unless he is into cuckolding you surely can see a problem there can't you? i am with Dreamer and also Des i think you want your cake and eat it and now crumbs are getting stuck in your throat... I do not understand how a submissive woman who is married can ever be 24-7 with a Master who is not her husband unless her husband is a willing slave in all senses to the Master too. It seems you and your Master have some more manipulation of the unreasonable difficult sod to do. I do understand how a woman who is unfulfilled in a marriage can take a lover and in most cases i would advise her to keep it a secret unless she does not care about the marriage anymore. Good luck with it all... Wow! Okay. He wasn't relegated to any kind of nominal position by this post. I did not bring up the nature of that relationship because of just these sorts of responses. I knew good and well that people were going to choke on the word spouse. This isn't some wandering heart situation. This isn't something he was cast into. He walked through all these gates of his own accord. He's not remotely dominant nor is he slave. He is simply vanilla him and that's fine. He doesn't have to be anything else. I think the sooner we get back to just being as much the us we were before this journey started, the better off potentially. There are some recalibrations that must occur based upon the fact that I have had so many changes, but they really don't have to be so dramatic and over the top as he is trying to make them out to be. I'm not choking on anything. If a grown person cannot thoroughly explore something, agree to that same thing, and carry it out in the way it was agreed upon, then I can't help him. I don't coddle people when it comes to making informed choices and sticking with them. He doesn't read the boards. This thread was for my benefit only. It is quickly becoming less than beneficial the more people want to pretend to know my relationships better than I do. I know the history of all this and how carefully everything has proceeded and how much extreme effort was put into making sure my husband was always my first consideration and his feelings and thoughts always taken into account. It's offensive to have it viewed otherwise. I have a better reputation here (for whatever a reputation is worth online). I deserve better than these kinds of baseless extrapolations. lovingpet Loving Pet, i hope you manage to work it all out to your satisfaction, my opimion is fastly different from yours on this subject as you know from reading other threads that were about cheating. i know that you think, that by being open and honest about everything, what you are trying to achieve is NOT cheating... but in my book it is worse... you are pushing your husband into second place... you make him have to share you, you allow him to notice that he is sharing you... and you want every body to be happy for you... I think you will have to face up to reality... this is NO way to treat a husband unless the husband is cuckold or decides (with your consent) to share you. He might even be ok with you having a toyboy... but to be shoved into second place by another male? a supposed Master?... no i don't think so ... and i think you are very naive if you think this is ever going to work out. I am not sure about your living arrangements, you mentioned a move... have you moved in with your Master? in that case ending the marriage seems the way forward... Has your Master moved into your marital home? well, if the marriage is of any value to you i would advice to have the Master move out asap... Also you might be losing control over all procedings... does your Master still want you if your marriage should end? Is your husband so discontent (ashamed even) that he might end the marriage? you might endup losing everything. I can not help it that you find my opinion offensive... maybe you should not have put the problem out here in the first place then? i do not know what extrapolations means and my internet connection is about to be turned of... my curfew... good luck with it all... i remain of the opinion that secretly cheating would have been the most honerable option... as total honesty is not always appreciated or fruitful, as you are discovering now. Again good luck As I stated somewhere along the way, there are other things at work in this that I am not placing for public display that alter some of this immensely. At the end of the day open and honest is still both what I believe to be best and what I need to do in order to sleep at night. I know we disagree there and that's okay. The move has not occurred yet, but it is at such a stage that is not possible to undo. We are stuck for a year no matter how it plays out. It will be a new place to all of us, though we are the ones leaving my hometown. My husband will actually be closer to his family than he is now, so he gets some positives out of it too and is actually looking forward to the new area. I am not in danger of losing everything. As a matter of fact, part of the reason for the move is so that I don't wind up in a very bad position if things continue to go as they are now. Those are some of the things I will not get into here. My husband looks at this as opportunity in way of jobs and education as well as being a bit closer to his family. My partner sees it as a step forward in our relationship and also protective of me given some rather fragile circumstances that exist. Everyone wins except where someone is making problems that don't actually exist. There is no way for me to convince anyone that hubby hasn't found himself in second place, nor am I interested in trying any further. I know my own mind and what I feel and that's the best I can do. I can try to convey that to him, but in the end, if his mind is made up, there is not a whole lot I can do, but that is upon him. I never wanted the mess I have at my doorstep, but here it is. I am now doing the best I can to make it something beautiful, but I have to stick with that which satisfies my conscience. lovingpet

lovingpet -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 1:41:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: hisdarlinsweetie Loving pet, I understand your frustration with the situation because both you and your husband agreed that you could find a dominant and the relationship with your dominant could be 24/7. I have to say that there are many times when I have thought that I would be ok with something, or even thought it would be a positive thing; but ended up feeling really negative about it. It wasn't because I lied to myself or anyone else who might be involved. I just didn't really know how I would react because I had never experienced the situation before. My guess (and I could be way off base here) is your husband thought he'd be ok with it because he hadn't really realized what 24/7 really encompassed and how it might affect his and your time together. He probably didn't really think that he would have to deal with your other relationship on a daily basis (no matter how much you might have told him he would have to before you entered into your relationship with your dominant). Everything you do for your dominant in your husband's presence is a reminder that you belong to your dominant. I can tell by your posts that you have tried to educate and inform your husband all along. That's commendable, but it doesn't stop the hurt/jealousy of being confronted daily with evidence that the person he loves and thought was his (not in a BDSM way, but in a partnership way) has given herself to someone else. It hurts to know you can't give the person you love what they need. It's easier to get annoyed/angry at your wife than truly admit that your not being able to meet your wife's needs might ultimately mean that the two of you aren't compatible enough to stay together happily. I hope everything works out for you. Unfortunately, I don't have much advice other than to talk with your husband about his feelings. If he can articulate his hurt/jealousy, than the two of you might be able to figure out ways to lessen those feelings. If he can't articulate his feelings and just says he doesn't understand why you allow your dominant to dominate you, I don't think you've got much of a chance of making things better. I know when he opened the door for me to have a dominant and then to this move that he likely wasn't lying to me when he said he was okay with everything. Reality is harder than an abstraction. I can accept that, but boy does his timing suck! I am just not entirely convinced that there isn't more to it than just a simple change of heart. That's all I'll say about that. I don't know that there is a positive resolution to this. I don't know if my husband can swallow his pride and if my partner can put aside some things for the sake of the entire arrangement. I don't know. I know I have to do everything I can to make it work. That way I know I have done my very best regardless of the result and have nothing to feel guilty about or regret. lovingpet

lally2 -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 2:40:39 PM)
since all of my vanilla boyfriends bossed me around infront of friends and family and i got similar flack for it, i just see it as something that occurs in some relationships and not in others. funnily enough ive never been with a dominant who bossed me around infront of friends and family though. almost like, thats private between us and not for public display. the defining line between what is privately acceptable and publicly misunderstood seems to be more acute. but then in public i tend not to create a situation where he needs to assert himself anyway. it would be embarrassing.

PrimalConsonance -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 2:55:31 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet I am now doing the best I can to make it something beautiful, but I have to stick with that which satisfies my conscience. lovingpet And ultimately, is that not all any of us can do?

DesFIP -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 8:20:40 PM)
LP, you hit this problem a couple of months ago when you were discussing who would get the master bedroom. It's the same thing. And it sounds like he's less and less able to handle it now that the time for your master to be around all the time draws near.

trueshadow -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 8:29:08 PM)
That doesn't come up so much with a female Owner/male slave. I think society is somehow more tolerant of a woman leading, and the man following. Just go to the mall on a Sunday afternoon.

lovingpet -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 8:34:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP LP, you hit this problem a couple of months ago when you were discussing who would get the master bedroom. It's the same thing. And it sounds like he's less and less able to handle it now that the time for your master to be around all the time draws near. I know. I did all the careful work to resolve that matter and another springs up. I am so very tired. I really just want some peace. Things go a whole lot deeper than what I am discussing here and I am just so tired of fighting. lovingpet

leadership527 -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/26/2010 9:33:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet Further discussion reveals that part of the problem is that some orders may have a crossoever into this person's and my interactions and that is not welcomed. For example, if I have a standing order that undergarments are not acceptable except when permission is granted and I am doing something day to day with this other person, they don't like the idea that I would not be wearing undergarments while with them because of his order instead of my own preference. The person gave no real explanation of why the reason mattered except that it felt like an invasion by him on our time. I offered to just lie LOL. That didn't go over well either (and I didn't figure it would of course). Then I attempted to explain that my preference is to uphold a standing order, so even though I was obeying his requirement, I was also exercising my own preferences. That didn't suit either. GAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!! What difference does it make and how can anyone tell me my preferences are not my preferences????? Needless to say I am running out of ideas and patience, but have to dig deeper on this one. After all that, I think I would've looked at this person and said, "Oooooooh, I get it now! I'm supposed to obey YOU not someone else or even my own self. Thanks for clearing that up." I mean seriously, this person is taking an extremely dominant stance with you. sighs and after reading further in the thread, I see why.

DesFIP -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/27/2010 10:11:00 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet quote: ORIGINAL: DesFIP LP, you hit this problem a couple of months ago when you were discussing who would get the master bedroom. It's the same thing. And it sounds like he's less and less able to handle it now that the time for your master to be around all the time draws near. I know. I did all the careful work to resolve that matter and another springs up. I am so very tired. I really just want some peace. Things go a whole lot deeper than what I am discussing here and I am just so tired of fighting. lovingpet You can't resolve this. Only he can. But he gets to decide how to resolve it. It sounds as though he's okay with you having a fwb as long as it stops when the play stops. It isn't okay for him when you have feelings for someone else. What I would recommend is that you decide if you want this marriage or not, and if so, that you focus on improving it. Because if not, the ensuing chaos could easily leave you without husband or master.

wandersalone -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/27/2010 2:44:52 PM)
LP is it possible that he was saying that he was ok with all of this more as a way to keep you happy and that now that the move and these changes are coming closer the reality of it is becoming more difficult for him to face? I understand that you went to great lengths to be open and to explain everything to him in the beginning .... I just wonder if he maybe wasn't as ok with it all as he said he was. It sounds like an extremely complex situation and I wish the best for all of you

DesFIP -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (2/28/2010 5:24:56 PM)
One last thought. When your master orders you to do something that impacts your relationship to your husband, then your husband is being forced to submit to your master. And that he has not and will not agree with. Nor should he.

ranja -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (3/1/2010 3:46:35 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lovingpet As I stated somewhere along the way, there are other things at work in this that I am not placing for public display that alter some of this immensely. At the end of the day open and honest is still both what I believe to be best and what I need to do in order to sleep at night. I know we disagree there and that's okay. The move has not occurred yet, but it is at such a stage that is not possible to undo. We are stuck for a year no matter how it plays out. It will be a new place to all of us, though we are the ones leaving my hometown. My husband will actually be closer to his family than he is now, so he gets some positives out of it too and is actually looking forward to the new area. I am not in danger of losing everything. As a matter of fact, part of the reason for the move is so that I don't wind up in a very bad position if things continue to go as they are now. Those are some of the things I will not get into here. My husband looks at this as opportunity in way of jobs and education as well as being a bit closer to his family. My partner sees it as a step forward in our relationship and also protective of me given some rather fragile circumstances that exist. Everyone wins except where someone is making problems that don't actually exist. There is no way for me to convince anyone that hubby hasn't found himself in second place, nor am I interested in trying any further. I know my own mind and what I feel and that's the best I can do. I can try to convey that to him, but in the end, if his mind is made up, there is not a whole lot I can do, but that is upon him. I never wanted the mess I have at my doorstep, but here it is. I am now doing the best I can to make it something beautiful, but I have to stick with that which satisfies my conscience. lovingpet i think it is admirable to be open and honest, but not always... sometimes i think it is rude and uncaring to be totally honest and i personally might have more difficulties sleeping if i know i am hurting another person so right in their face because of my own selfish 'needs'... instead of dealing with my own guilt at having a dirty secret... different strokes... So you and your husband are going to move over to your Master? and you will all be under the one roof? ... you will have two Masters... oh dear... It is Always possible to make a change... though it might cost, i would seriously reconsider if you care at all for the marriage. Des warned you too... you might end up without a husband or a Master, are you prepared for that? Your husband is NOT making problems where none exist... to him there ARE problems... and i understand why he should think so too... just because you think he is totally vanilla does not mean he has ... no rights, no dominance in him, and no understanding of your 'needs'... being vanilla does not mean a person is thick or a push over... Leadership actually said your husband came across as very dominant... and i think he has a point. Though you 'roll your eyes' at his objections like your 'hubby' does not understand your deep bond with THE Master, so you think your husband is being difficult and childish... but your husband probably thinks you are the one being difficult and childish and unreasonable and selfish... and his point is just as valid (maby even more so) as yours. And what Des said about your husband having to submit to your Master is exactly what i meant too... it is NOT a good way to treat your husband... you show him NO respect, whether you realise it or not you are putting him in second place and you do not care or realise that you do this publicly for everybody to see... your husband will NOT stand for it unless he fancies being cuckold... in my opinion he will eventually have no choice but to divorce you if you continue to insult him like this. All the best be careful

lally2 -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (3/1/2010 5:17:17 AM)
just wanted to apologise for my FR, it was completely irrelevant to the entire thread - also to wish you luck with this. its not unknown for married folk to have a Master or sub, they seem to be able to work it around but i think, from what i can make out it is largely for play purposes. indepth committed Ds or Ms outside of play, that might infringe on the married spouse doesnt seem to happen so much. clearly youre stuck in the middle and being pulled two ways - i think that what youve done in being honest, upfront and open about it all is how it should be absolutely. the fact that its all going pear shaped now suggests as others have said, that youre husband didnt understand about Ds and possibly doesnt want to. its a part of you he doesnt understand and cant compete (for want of a better word) with. all the best hun xx

lovingpet -> RE: He Can't Order You Around Like That (3/1/2010 5:57:16 PM)
I thank everyone for their continued input. I will just say that, after some very poignant conversations, I have a great deal of peace. I don't know the outcome and I don't know all the steps along the way. I do know where a lot of things stand and what both are thinking and feeling. I have made some tough calls and I am set on my path with an assurance and confidence previously lacking. It is not that the problems are solved, but that I know there is a safe place in the storm. lovingpet

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