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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:10:06 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		The Barbarian "Hoards" are coming! Run!

Er....I mean, Fly!


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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:10:58 PM   
pahunkboy


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Status: offline 		HOARD GOLD!

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:12:00 PM   
pahunkboy


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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:12:23 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
There is nothing there which cannot be explained by the office equipment etc exploding.

On the contrary, there is, and I am not talking about flashes. Besides, there ain't much office equipment that can explode.



What about computer monitors? Those flashes are too random to be controlled demolition....and there are some which happen above the falling debris, how do you explain that?


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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:14:37 PM   
Musicmystery


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Status: offline 		But when the Big Bad Wolf got to the fourth little Pennsylvanian's house, made of gold bricks, he huffed, and he puffed, and...

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:23:39 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Musicmystery

But when the Big Bad Wolf got to the fourth little Pennsylvanian's house, made of gold bricks, he huffed, and he puffed, and...


http://goldradio.fm/

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:24:50 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
There is nothing there which cannot be explained by the office equipment etc exploding.

On the contrary, there is, and I am not talking about flashes. Besides, there ain't much office equipment that can explode.

What about computer monitors? Those flashes are too random to be controlled demolition....and there are some which happen above the falling debris, how do you explain that?

I have not seen those flashes. We might speculate about them: dust explosions, or - more likely - random explosions of some of the emplaced explosives.

Above the falling debris? That most certainly may be a clue. Check Isaac Newton's third law of motion.

Computer monitors? If vacuum tubes, they would implode, not explode. I do not know that monitors produce flashes when they implode.

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:24:51 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

HOARD GOLD!


Hunky, what good would that do? You aren't making any sense here, what does hoarding gold have to do with what we are discussing?


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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:27:23 PM   
Rule


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Status: offline 		I suspect that he expects a huge devaluation of the dollar.

It might be better to invest in land. Gold is more easily stolen than land.

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:27:58 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

HOARD GOLD!


Hunky, what good would that do? You aren't making any sense here, what does hoarding gold have to do with what we are discussing?



In some regards it is separate- in some it is the same.

fiat money- so gold and silver will hold its value.

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:30:58 PM   
thornhappy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
Better yet, add a transmitter so you could check for life of the unit.

Why? There may have been up to 240 x 100 = 24000 detonators emplaced. Who cares, considering such redundancy, if some of them do not function?

Rule, imagine trying to buy, and emplace, and plug into a power source, 24,000 units.  It boggles the freaking mind.

quote:

thornhappy
Oops...now you need a bigger battery.

quote:

Rule
No, you do not. Because one does not check for the life of the unit. What batteries? Do you have any proof that batteries were used? The detonators may have been powered by the building's electricity supply.

When would they have done all the wiring of those units?  It would be obvious as hell that folks were screwing around in the overhead on every floor.  Just think how folks remember network techs running new Ethernet cables in an office - ladders hanging around, dust from the tiles, it's obvious to a whole lot of folks that some work's being done.  Battery powered units would be less hassle than wiring them in.


quote:

thornhappy
Oops, now you need a bigger transmitter to make it through the walls

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
What walls?

The walls of the friggen building, Rule, if you're using an external transmitter.  Or are you now calling for, say, a sophisticated, medium power transmitter on each floor...each of which would have to respond to a master transmitter...leading to some of the same sensitivity issues.

The FDNY ended up in a lot of trouble because one of their signal boosters wasn't enabled and they missed a lot of calls, leading to confusion between the incident commander and the crews that were well up in the structures.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
and now you have a hazard to the detonator itself.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Why?

Detonators can be fired by accident due to the presence of RF fields, which is why when you go on a job site where explosives are used, there's a big sign saying "Turn off all wireless devices."  And they have no sense of humor.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
4) You'd need an antenna with pretty damn good gain

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Why?


Again, if you're using an external transmitter, the signal will be attenuated through the walls, requiring antennas with better gain, or more tx power, or better rx sensitivity.  Pick your poison.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
5) If your receivers only wake up sporadically to check for messages, you'd never get the precision required for demolition.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Why would anyone want to wake them up sporadically?

If they are battery powered - if you leave them on all the time they'll suck the battery dry.  Imagine tapping into the building power for all those receivers.  It would be easier to set up by using battery powered units.

quote:

ORIGINAL: thornhappy
6) You wouldn't want any big transmitters nearby for safety reasons (which would be a problem since WTC 1 had kilowatts of power on the roof due to all the broadcasting gear.)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
Why would one not want any big transmitters nearby? If each detonator is triggered by a specific frequency code, there is no likelihood within the two weeks that the detonators are emplaced that any will be erroneously triggered by nearby transmitters that each function at their own specific, easily avoided, frequencies and that cannot possibly accidentally transmit the code.


As I explained above, detonators can be set off by stray RF.

You may not want to hear gory details, but the gory details are what makes this idea pretty damn preposterous.

And I swear I'll never edit a post like that again.  Honest.

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:32:31 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule
quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
There is nothing there which cannot be explained by the office equipment etc exploding.

On the contrary, there is, and I am not talking about flashes. Besides, there ain't much office equipment that can explode.

What about computer monitors? Those flashes are too random to be controlled demolition....and there are some which happen above the falling debris, how do you explain that?

I have not seen those flashes. We might speculate about them: dust explosions, or - more likely - random explosions of some of the emplaced explosives.

Above the falling debris? That most certainly may be a clue. Check Isaac Newton's third law of motion.

Computer monitors? If vacuum tubes, they would implode, not explode. I do not know that monitors produce flashes when they implode.


Okay maybe not office equipment, but I'm still sceptical. I'm not sure what you are getting at with Newton's third law and the guy in that video talks about timed explosions so why would there be explosives set off above the debris, it's pointless.


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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:34:34 PM   
MrMister


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1) There was no such thing as super thermite or nanotechnology in explosives, when the wtc was constructed. How did they manage to spray all the undersides of the concrete flooring, without anyone noticing ?

As I have mentioned in my previous post, I have not completed a definitive study of all the data available, but it is surely available via many of the links I posted. But in an attempt to answer you question; I believe it is possible that the nanothermite could have been introduced into paint and applied whenever painting work was performed whenever clients vacated and prior to new occupants moving into the space. This could have been done without the knowledge of the painters and would have transpired over a period of time. Such is certainly not impossible.


2) If they did manage the above, the central structure would still have remained standing.

As you already alluded to, proper placement of  proper destructive charges is critical in successfully bringing down any structure. There is quite a bit of data regarding such in the links I provided.

3) How did they control the detonation, in the right sequence, to bring down the buildings as you suggest. We both know that a controlled demolition must blast out supporting columns in a set order,  If this isnt done, they cant control the direction of the fall. I wont even get into the amount of demolition that takes place by machinery PRIOR to the actual explosion. In this link you can both see and here a sequenced demolition.

I hate to keep repeating myself here, but once again to answer such a question requires a great deal of time and effort (on my behalf), so if you really are interested in sorting through the links, the engineering and scientific data is certainly there to look at that should answer all of your questions. Asking me, who is not qualified in every area, (have only working knowledge of some disciplines such as explosives and demolition and will make no claims to be an expert in areas that I am not) to continue to answer some of your concerns serves no purpose. There are far too many who are qualified and have answered the questions you are asking, which is why I defer you to look at their data. What we must try and keep in mind, when trying to understand all this as well as the plausibility of such an event, is what if this is true.  What I posted was why I was lead to believe what I currently do, which is there are far too many questions that need an answer. It is my hope there will be another inquiry into this matter that will bring about some conclusion to the questions being asked as to what exactly happened that day.


4) Why have none of the demolition workers who installed the charges ever spoken up. I refuse to believe that a large workforce would see thousands of civillians killed, ad not one would decide to blow the whistle.

As I already mentioned, it is possible that the vast majority of those workers who may have painted nanothemite on structural elements of the building would not have necessarily been aware of it as they were applying it. And I too do not believe that such an event is not possible without someone saying something about it eventually, which I believe will eventually come to fruition. But this is only my opinion. I do know there have been a couple of workers that have come forth with information regarding several secondary explosions, of which one of them (Barry Jennings I believe was his name) in now deceased. 


< Message edited by MrMister -- 3/7/2010 12:37:07 PM >

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:35:34 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

In some regards it is separate- in some it is the same.

fiat money- so gold and silver will hold its value.


I can understand telling people to hoard gold in a thread about the economy but not here. Can you clarify further please


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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:38:53 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
why would there be explosives set off the debris, it's pointless.

Quite. Therefore: a clue.

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:41:50 PM   
Rule


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
the guy in that video talks about timed explosions

Switch off the sound.

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:42:00 PM   
pahunkboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

In some regards it is separate- in some it is the same.

fiat money- so gold and silver will hold its value.


I can understand telling people to hoard gold in a thread about the economy but not here. Can you clarify further please



The WTC basement held alot of gold.   No one can account for it now.

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:42:14 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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From: The Great Frozen North
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rule

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth
why would there be explosives set off the debris, it's pointless.

Quite. Therefore: a clue.



Sorry Rule, I'm not following you, painkiller-muddled head, here, lol, a clue to what?


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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:43:43 PM   
Politesub53


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Real0ne

why the fuck would anyone spray the ceilings


16 buildings 1500 pounds to shoot em and you seen the video how many fucking times and you still spout the same shit?

There comes a time when willful dumb ass needs to be called what it is.


Because MrMister had a link to architects against 9/11. If you had bothered to even read it, you would see that spraying the ceilings is the suggestion put forward, by a site which YOU have used before to back your claim. So here we have YOU admitting one of your sources is making a ridiculous claim.

What was that about "Willful dumbass"

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RE: WASHINGTON TIMES QUESTIONS WTC 7 COLLAPSE - 3/7/2010 12:45:39 PM   
zephyroftheNorth


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quote:

The WTC basement held alot of gold. No one can account for it now.
quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: zephyroftheNorth

quote:

In some regards it is separate- in some it is the same.

fiat money- so gold and silver will hold its value.


I can understand telling people to hoard gold in a thread about the economy but not here. Can you clarify further please



The WTC basement held alot of gold.   No one can account for it now.



Did it actually, or is it a rumor? the only mention I've ever seen of gold in the WTC is on the conspiracy videos.


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