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I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 6:39:24 AM

OriginallyFromLA

Posts: 87
Joined: 2/10/2010
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Yes that's right. Just a bunch of people with a drug addiction. The addiction to endorphins. The whole "lifestyle" with its sceneing and protocols is nothing more than an elaborate ritual that people go through to get themselves into "head space" or "sub space" or whatever you want to call it. It reminds me of the rituals that shaman use to put themselves into an altered state do they can commune with their animal guides and the spirits of their ancestors. Why even I have felt the presence of a third "something" during a very intense session that up until I joined here thought was just typical love making. Typical for me.

I'm not saying everyone experiences the high the same way. And I think it's great that people are able to pair up in a way that Dom/sub Master/slave relationships can be formed so each person has access to a "supplier".

What I find most incredible though is that you guys recognized this need in yourselves so early. I just lived with it for 46 years wondering what my malfunction was.

Personally I came here to get a handle on my addiction. I knew there was something going on but not what. That rush is overpowering and can be triggered very easily for me, and that's not good. Easy up means easy(not) down. So I have to deal with the withdrawal too often. So I needed to understand it so I could develop a way to control it.

But what I have been reading a lot lately about the depths people have to go through just to get that high. Cutting yourself? That really says "Hey I'm way past recreational use, I've got to have my fix and I'm willing to carve myself to get it."

Not condemning just observing. What an adult does to their body is their business. I'm just wondering what any one of us would say if we saw a person on the corner cutting the initials of their crack dealer in their arm just to get a rock.

Guess it's not much different than other right of passage rituals, but I have to say wow, that's hard core, and if you weren't so stoned on endorphins right now would you still be doing it?

_____________________________

We keep you alive to serve this ship. Row well, and live.-Quintas Arius

Love IS pain, Highness. Anyone that says different is selling something.-Dread Pirate Roberts

Post #: 1

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 6:45:28 AM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
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I say you are full of shit. You can be what you want. Feel free to leave me out.

Jeff

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"If you don't live it, it won't come out your horn." Charlie Parker

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 2

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 6:46:53 AM

Aileen1968

Posts: 6062
Joined: 12/12/2007
From: I miss Shore, New Jersey
Status: offline

I completely disagree with everything you just wrote.
Vanilla couples have incredibly intense bonds too.
We are not any more special.

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(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 3

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 6:50:18 AM

leadership527

Posts: 5026
Joined: 6/2/2008
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Just so your clear, this post doesn't represent my reality at all. There are no "endorphin" releases in my marriage initiated by any sort of ritual. There are no protocols. We do not live partly or all the time in any sort of altered state. There is no sadism nor masochism in our relationship and what bondage exists exists is minimal at best. I've never figured out exactly what the word "discipline" means so I'll pass on that.

For me, this is just as simple as, "I found a way to wind our relationship tighter together and have it become more loving. It's exploring what happens when a dominant personality and a submissive one stop fighting the natural downhill flow and just relax into ourselves."

I'm not ribbing on you LA, but since you're new here, I thought it worth pointing out that generalized posts like this are pretty much 100% guaranteed to be wrong. WIITWD covers an awful lot of ground

_____________________________

~Jeff

I didn't so much "enslave" Carol as I did "enlove" her. - Me
I want a joyous, loving, respectful relationship where the male is in charge and deserves to be. - DavanKael

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 4

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 6:58:50 AM

specialk2611

Posts: 36
Joined: 12/13/2009
Status: offline

I actually did describe to a Domme that my experiences and emotional states were simliar to seeking a high (Frenzy, sub-drop...). That was in a play relationship.

I would probably react the same as the above people though if someone reduced a way of living, meaningful relationships and experiences to just a bunch of drug addicts seeking a high.

(in reply to Aileen1968)

Post #: 5

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 7:01:31 AM

LaTigresse

Posts: 26123
Joined: 1/15/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Jeffff

I say you are full of shit. You can be what you want. Feel free to leave me out.

Jeff

Ward already said it so beautifully.

June

_____________________________

My twisted, self deprecating, sense of humour, finds alot to laugh about, in your lack of one!

Just because you are well educated, articulate, and can use big, fancy words, properly........does not mean you are right!

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 6

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 7:05:17 AM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

BarTender can I have another one please... before beer is outlawed, to protect me from turning into true alcoholic.

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Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 7

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 7:06:18 AM

CallaFirestormBW

Posts: 3651
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline

In my case, I can honestly say "no DUH!". I've known for years that I am an intensity freak. It's why I get tattooed. Yes, for me, the inking, piercing, etc., are ways to enhance an altered state of consciousness and, perhaps, develop an entheogenesis (the birth of internal divinity). It's a -fact- that human beings gravitate towards peak emotional/energetic experiences. Of course, I'm also one of the modern equivalents of a shaman/priest(ess)/hierophant/sage, so it makes sense, I think, that I'd gravitate towards experiences that would enhance that state-of-being.

For some folks, though, this isn't about peak experiences... it's just about -life-, and about having a day-to-day existence that meshes with who they are. There are a LOT of folks here who don't do any of the BDSM-ish stuff... no floggings on a Sunday afternoon, no decoratively pierced "wings", no corsets and leather and heavy boots -- and they manage just fine. There are also a -lot- of folks here who don't do protocol. I'm not one of them, but they are certainly part of the population.

I think that the OPs theory has some merit -- but exercise, diet control, mountain climbing, skydiving, piloting small aircraft, scuba diving... all of those things can fill the same niche, and -do- for many people. This isn't a symptom of anything... it's just how the folks here prefer to express themselves and, for some of us, to touch the Universe. No harm, no foul.

Calla

< Message edited by CallaFirestormBW -- 2/26/2010 7:48:15 AM >

_____________________________

***
Said to me recently: "Look, I know you're the "voice of reason"... but dammit, I LIKE being unreasonable!!!!"

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(in reply to leadership527)

Post #: 8

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 7:34:40 AM

Wolf2Bear

Posts: 3204
Joined: 9/6/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginallyFromLA

Yes that's right. Just a bunch of people with a drug addiction. The addiction to endorphins. The whole "lifestyle" with its sceneing and protocols is nothing more than an elaborate ritual that people go through to get themselves into "head space" or "sub space" or whatever you want to call it. It reminds me of the rituals that shaman use to put themselves into an altered state do they can commune with their animal guides and the spirits of their ancestors. Why even I have felt the presence of a third "something" during a very intense session that up until I joined here thought was just typical love making. Typical for me.

Granted you may see this in that view though I do have to say that for many, this is not the case. I still say that most kinksters are still willing to walk away from WIITWD yet the issue is we choose not to. We 'want' to continue indulging in our desires because we gain pleasure from the activities that we do, just like every other biological entity that always gravitates to what we find pleasurable. To imply we are addicts, is to assume that we will do whatever is necessary to get our fix which is not the case. Addicts will steal and sometimes kill another to feed the addiction, the average kinkster wouldn't.

As to the shaman reference, that is borderline offensive. It is on;y in certain cultures that shamans do use mind altering substances to achieve that altered state of consciousness. There are those shamans who have that ability and often use mind over matter without the mind altering drugs to produce that same effect. Talk to the medicine men of most aboriginal tribes and ask them about dream walking or having their animal guides speaking to them when they are sleeping.

quote:

I'm not saying everyone experiences the high the same way. And I think it's great that people are able to pair up in a way that Dom/sub Master/slave relationships can be formed so each person has access to a "supplier".

What I find most incredible though is that you guys recognized this need in yourselves so early. I just lived with it for 46 years wondering what my malfunction was.

Personally I came here to get a handle on my addiction. I knew there was something going on but not what. That rush is overpowering and can be triggered very easily for me, and that's not good. Easy up means easy(not) down. So I have to deal with the withdrawal too often. So I needed to understand it so I could develop a way to control it.

Yes we do recognize this "need" to satisfy our desires, yet you appear to neglect the multitude of kinksters who do not indulge in this all the time but are what we call "weekend warriors" and then there are people who keep the kink solely in the bedroom. I find it is a grave disservice to say that we are malfunctioning until we fixed this malfunction.

quote:

But what I have been reading a lot lately about the depths people have to go through just to get that high. Cutting yourself? That really says "Hey I'm way past recreational use, I've got to have my fix and I'm willing to carve myself to get it."

Not condemning just observing. What an adult does to their body is their business. I'm just wondering what any one of us would say if we saw a person on the corner cutting the initials of their crack dealer in their arm just to get a rock.

This may apply to some though- not to the whole.

quote:

Guess it's not much different than other right of passage rituals, but I have to say wow, that's hard core, and if you weren't so stoned on endorphins right now would you still be doing it?

Strongly disagree here. My endorphins are at a stable level and I still can say I would still be doing what I do because I want to.

_____________________________

~Resident Sadist Approved~

Take the pain
Take the pleasure
I'm the master of both
Close your eyes, not your mind
Let me into your soul
I'm gonna work it 'til your totally blown

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 9

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 7:40:27 AM

stef

Posts: 10215
Joined: 1/26/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: OriginallyFromLA

Yes that's right. Just a bunch of people with a drug addiction

Others have already debunked this nonsense, but I take issue with the misquoting in your signature. What Roberts says is:

"Life is pain, Highness. Anyone who says differently is selling something."

~stef

_____________________________

Welcome to PoliticSpace! If you came here expecting meaningful BDSM discussions, boy are you in the wrong place.

"Hypocrisy has consequences"

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 10

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 7:50:23 AM

Jeffff

Posts: 12600
Joined: 7/7/2007
Status: offline

I think these words do not mean what he thinks they mean

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(in reply to stef)

Post #: 11

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 8:00:57 AM

Whiplashsmile4

Posts: 2305
Joined: 12/2/2008
Status: offline

If this was a bar, I'd love to buy everybody a round of their favorite shot, with exception of those who have an alcohol addiction or feel they've already had one too many. Hey, I'm not gonna force anybody to drink who does not want to. I will however, continue to party with those that do. If somebody has a drinking problem, that's their issue not mine.

I will however check up on friends and make certain they make it home safe, if I think they've had too much to drink, I'll offer them rides. If I think they've had too much, I'll take intervention. If I feel I'm reaching a point of having too much, I'll ease up or order a pepsi. If it's a night where I say oh fuck it, I'll make certain to have a plan to make it safely home.

I'm certain anybody can figure out how this translates here.

_____________________________

Жизнь ума ебет.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUzJI4Palq0

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 12

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 8:07:06 AM

whiteslavebitch

Posts: 479
Joined: 9/10/2007
Status: offline

No, I'm not addicted to endorphins, many times I don't go into subspace when we play.
I still keep going back because I have a strong need to submit and be pleasing. I would be MasterK's slave if I never went into subspace again because that is a core need of mine.

Not to say that I don't love the feeling of subspace, because I do. It's just not a necessary part of my life, I can live easily without it.

_____________________________

MasterK's whiteslavebitch

formally collared 1/30/09

"I give to you my everything, you've given me these loving wings." - DMB

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 13

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 8:09:29 AM

afkarr

Posts: 328
Joined: 1/13/2010
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LA, your entire post is based on a fallacy- namely, that we aren't capable of functioing without the endorphin rush of kink. Addiction means literally- "must have". A true addict of anything- drugs, alcohol, food, sex, whatever- has to have theri "drug" of choice, irregardless of the consequences. They live for the next fix, the next high, and will forego just about everything to get it. The crack hos on the cornor, the winos in the gutter, all have in thing in common- their addiction is more important to them than their families, their careers, their homes, their health.

"We" are much different. While there may be the rare kinkster who is willing to irresponisbly throw everything away for some freaky sex; the vast majority view it as an enhancement to their life, not the purpose of it. Yes, there is a lot of talk about how a partner is ones "reason for being", how someone "lives to serve" or was "born to lead", yada yada yada. Not to negate the importance some place on their relationships, but in all honestly, you can take most of us freaks far far away from anything freaky, and we will survive, and function. We may not be happy, we may miss it, but we certainly won't need 12 step meetings three times a day or the Big Book of Kink to cope with it.

Many of us have gone for extended periods- as in years- living perfeectly sane, vanilla lifes, without a speck of kink in them, either through circumstance or choice. And we've lived to tell the story.

A conscius choice to act upon your desires is far different than an uncontrollable addiction.

(in reply to Jeffff)

Post #: 14

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 8:13:08 AM

Smutmonger

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I have very much seen many masochists go this way over the years-heavier and heavier play-both mentally and physically. Almost like religious fanatacism.

(in reply to afkarr)

Post #: 15

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 8:16:10 AM

chamberqueen

Posts: 1597
Joined: 10/25/2007
From: Kalamazoo, MI
Status: offline

LA, I have seen some who truly go about the lifestyle as if it is an addiction. They can't wait for the next session, they feel that they would die without their partner, etc. The ones I have seen this most strongly in are those in a submissive role who live for the next encounter. They claim that they are always submissive yet as soon as they are no longer in the presence of their Dominant they no longer obey - only during actual play. (I'm not saying that's true of all - just from personal experience.)

Human brains enjoy pleasure - proven fact. When we have a song we can't get out of our head it is because somehow we are deriving pleasure from it. While some enjoy the rush of sadism or masochism that isn't present in all BDSM relationships, or may be present to varying degrees. What brought me to the lifestyle was the psychological - the amount of trust that needed to be shared, the communication that was necessary. I get much more of a rush in getting a glimpse of my Master's soul than in anything that he can do to my physically.

I agree with the basic premise of what you are saying - BDSM can be powerfully addictive. Some take it too far and live for that rush even at their own physical or emotional expense. Others see it as a healthy and fulfilling way of life. It is like alcohol - you can use it to enhance your life or you can let it take control. While I love my Master dearly and hope to serve him for the rest of my life I do not feel that it is an out of control addiction. As in all things, balance is necessary. If you and your partner get off on being addicted to sessions that's great. Just be careful not to make a blanket statement because that really doesn't cover all BDSM relationships.

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Post #: 16

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 8:19:36 AM

Sanguinarian

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Joined: 8/13/2008
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I am one of those people who can just shut things off and walk away, never to think about it or want it again. I have done so, with certain people, and they have told me that I have become cold, unfeeling. Anyone with an actual addiction cannot simply 'shut down'.

I would say and be confident in the truth, that most anyone here can do the same, if they feel the need.

And if you look at it from an evolutionary standpoint, an addiction is classified as a bodily need. You might as well say we are addicted to food, shelter and warmth.

(in reply to afkarr)

Post #: 17

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 8:22:08 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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I'm going to disagree with the original on a few various points.

Let's not confuse the terms. A drug addiction is a dependency on a synthetic source to produce a repeated result. The dependency part is when a person can not live without ingesting said source to attempt chasing the altered state. The difference between the two is, as Calla said in her fine examples, activities within BDSM can cause this same reaction within the brain in a natural way.

This is not to say that many people involved in wiitwd aren't chasing that natural high on a regular basis. Many of us know that we feel happier and healthier when we are participating regularly in activities that boost our endorphin flow. The very same thing could be said for those who masturbate on a regular basis. Orgasms have a very similar reaction chemically in the brain as do S/m activities. There is the 'rush', then the normal flow of endorphins, which actually is the adjustment of the brain not being flooded in the pleasure center, and then back to it's regular state of normal flow. In part, this is what the brain is designed to do. Receive stimuli, respond to it with natural chemicals, and then compensate.

In the original, you used a very particular word, and that is withdrawl. Personally, I see withdrawl as that period where the endorphins are no longer flooding the pleasure receptors. I don't find it fits in 'the lack thereof'. I see it more as that state where the chemical overload ceases, and a person goes back to normal. This is where 'drop' actually occurs. It existed and then it didn't.

At the same time, we might look at the difference between casual stimuli and that same stimuli when mixed with intimacy. Now you have the same pleasure responants mixed with other things. For Me, these are not quite the same.

_____________________________

The crowned Diva of Destruction. ~ ExT

Beach Ball Sized Lady Nuts. ~ TWD

Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to stef)

Post #: 18

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 8:23:27 AM

Justme696

Posts: 3236
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From: Royal kingdom of the Netherlands
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Most drugs are legal here..or allowed..so...I am fine with it.

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~Been there, done that, got the t-shirt

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Post #: 19

RE: I say we are just a bunch of drug addicts - 2/26/2010 8:32:44 AM

SlaveSimone

Posts: 95
Joined: 3/17/2008
From: Denver, Co
Status: offline

Do I get "high" on play? Yes. Am I chemically dependent on it? No. Is the seeking of said "high" all there is to my M/s relationship? Hell No.It's really only a very small part of it considering its lack of importance and frequency. I sought a D/s dynamic before I ever knew the whats and hows of sub space.There are about a million different reasons for this, one of which is that being in an equal authority type relationship stresses me out. If no one is taking the lead then I step up and take it, putting me in a position relationship wise that I was not wired to handle. That has nothing to do with any endorphin rush or what ever, it has to do with me living in a way that's conducive to me being healthy and happy. I've also experienced Sub frenzy and it really had nothing to do with the chemical rush either. In fact, it seems to be most common in newbies, who likely have never experienced it at all.

On an entirely different note, the beginning phases of love, is an endorphin rush. Sex, is an endorphin rush. We are no different then the rest of the population, we just get our rocks off in our own individual ways.

(in reply to OriginallyFromLA)

Post #: 20

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