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Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 3:37:20 AM

Bondagelove1978

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline

Hello to everyone.

I have a burning quiestion about bdsm in a relation. Most submisives or slaves dont mind to be called stupid, arogant, uneducated, worthless and so on in a session. But in real life, in a situation when the submisive doese something stupid for instance, (no one is perfect) said by someone he or she is in love with and respects a lot, this is different. The mental aspect is what its all about. Keeping a slave/submisive at youre feet without them to become weak and insecure as a partner. How to keep magic and power, while the submisive/slave stil feels exepted and can live as a good loving man, or woman.
I would like to have tips and tricks for both sides, for the submisive/slave recodnising this situation in wiche he or she lost her selfrespect and became weak because of bdsm. Or for the dominant seeing he or she has this effect on her/his slave/submisive. At the end, bdsm is a pleasure! A gift for those who know how to deal with this in a healthy way and to make a strong relation based on these loveley ingredients:).

Greetings, T.J.

Post #: 1

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 3:51:15 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
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Verbal abuse and humiliation is tricky, and I'd rather avoid it altogether. It's not a necessary component of a D/s relationship.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Bondagelove1978)

Post #: 2

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 4:01:12 AM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline

Bondage,

I do not use words like stupid, or uneducated, or worthless. I prefer to build self-esteem, not tear it down.

Now, words like slut, fucktoy, boymeat...well, those are just yummy.

If you feel the words are damaging you, first, ask yourself why. Are they true? By this, I mean, do you have insecurities in that regard and perceive them to be true? If so, perhaps you can request those words be omitted from play and more particularly, from non-play.

If you do not feel those words actually apply to you, then shrug it off, and ask why your dominant finds them fun to use. Maybe you will enjoy them also if you can understand why she enjoys them.

Personally, I wouldn't enjoy that type of play.

Good luck.

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(in reply to Bondagelove1978)

Post #: 3

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 9:15:35 AM

SthrnCom4t

Posts: 343
Joined: 9/9/2007
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First of all my boy is never stupid or worthless. We don't play with degradation, as it doesn't make either of us feel good. We support each other always, whether we are exercising a formal protocol, or a night snuggling on the couch.

There is a difference between humiliation and degradation.

Humiliation play done correctly is about leaving primary values intact, and playing on secondary and tertiary values. Degradation most certainly goes after primary values and can be exceptionally damaging. Personally, for me as a Dominant, degradation is a hard limit. It doesn't make me feel good to inflict it.

What does that say about my choice of partners if I indicate in any fashion that he has no value? Degradation is needed by some folks, but honestly, I don't see it as necessary in a power exchange dynamic unless that's just a 'hot' button/trigger for both parties. If so, I would hope they would have learned to process it in a positive way.

Please don't be under the impression that it's a core part of a Femdom dynamic.

_____________________________

Sthrn
Honorably served by OttersSwim

'The sign of a developed mind is one in which two opposing ideas can coexist' - Oscar Wilde.

(in reply to Domin8tingUrDrmz)

Post #: 4

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 9:38:14 AM

LadyPact

Posts: 32566
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The word stupid has never come out of My mouth when referring to My boy. I don't see him as such, so why on earth would I tell him that he was?

_____________________________

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Happily dating a new submissive. It's official. I've named him engie.

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(in reply to SthrnCom4t)

Post #: 5

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 9:43:11 AM

Madame4a

Posts: 2045
Joined: 2/4/2008
From: Washington, DC area
Status: offline

Like many others.. the idea of humiliation and degradation doesn't work for me... and in the end, I'm not 100% sure what you're getting at, but maybe its just about how to balance a relationship in general...

its a delicate dance.. when you're the Top, you have to trust that when you beat the crap out of someone, they are still going to love you an hour later.. luckily my boy does... for the bottom or submissive side of things.. you have to know that certain things are done in a loving context.. at least in some relationships...

is that the balance? Its not easy.. and I can't really tell you how it works -- like all things.. time, patience, communication and experience

_____________________________

You're crazy bitch
But you f*ck so good, I'm on top of it
When I dream, I'm doing you all night
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(in reply to Bondagelove1978)

Post #: 6

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 10:13:55 AM

Bondagelove1978

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline

Thanks for the advice, somehow it all makes sense. Personaly i think it is important to know exactley what buttons to push at what time. To keep things exiting and unpredictable is the chalenge, but never at cost of eather side, top or bottom.
With punishments this is easy, but how to mess with someones brain if he or she knows its just play? Then its more hard to find the right buttons and when they are pushed to hard, after care is needed. But how to provide after care if this mind play is not done in a session but in ordinary situations. I had some bad experiences in this matter being a submisive. Thats why i ask:)

(in reply to Madame4a)

Post #: 7

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 10:18:26 AM

PrincessDonna

Posts: 189
Joined: 7/7/2006
Status: offline

So many things are learned(even by so called Doms) from TV and media that if one knows nothing else they will take that part they have seen or read about and make that who they are,how sad but.......Ive always wonderd who made up those notions that are protrayed.

(in reply to Bondagelove1978)

Post #: 8

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 10:27:56 AM

LadyNTrainer

Posts: 1584
Joined: 5/20/2009
Status: offline

Not everyone chooses to do humiliation play; it can be a touchy subject, and not everyone is well suited to enjoy it without fundamentally damaging themselves and the relationship.

The degree to which you can be damaged by verbal abuse is generally agreed to depend on your own emotional stability, the degree of intimacy you have with the individual who offers the negative comments and what value you assign their words internally. The possibility (even probability) exists for verbal abuse and humiliation to cause long term psychological damage if the negative expressions are internalized consistently with an unhealthy self-image.

The key here is how the individual who is on the receiving end of this psychological edgeplay perceives and internalizes the situation. An individual with strong codependent tendencies who is verbally abused, especially by a spouse, close friend, lover or co-worker may internalize and accept the negative expressions as valid judgements of their own self worth. Such an individual should probably not engage in psychological edgeplay such as humiliation or verbal degradation, as he or she may not be healthy or strong enough to participate without risk of harm or damage to the relationship, and possibly to their own emotional well-being.

An individual who has a strong and well-developed sense of self worth and self esteem is more likely to react to verbal abuse with consistent internal rejection on some level, even if the experience has been deliberately sought out and eroticized. The negative expressions are not internalized (at least not permanently) and are not consistent with their self image. They know that they are not actually worthless, useless or an object of contempt to their partner outside the boundaries of the scene.

The emotionally stable individual is not likely to suffer any real emotional harm as a result of playing with humiliation in the context of a BDSM scene. Such an individual is a good candidate to participate in fantasy roleplaying games that may involve elements of humiliation, degradation or verbal harshness.

Aftercare is another important concept. If you’ve just spent an hour being treated like a worthless worm, a piece of shit or a stupid whore, you may need some direct reassurance of your partner’s love and caring as soon as you are done with your scene. Not everyone needs a high level of aftercare, but dominants should stay alert to a submissive’s feelings and needs immediately after scening with humiliation play.

< Message edited by LadyNTrainer -- 2/27/2010 10:28:38 AM >

_____________________________

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(in reply to Bondagelove1978)

Post #: 9

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 11:45:20 AM

Bondagelove1978

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline

I stil didnt get any advice on this subject outside of the scene. What if the dominant doesnt do scenes and just starts to mess the submisives brain using their inperfection against them? There are many situations in wiche this can show up.

(in reply to LadyNTrainer)

Post #: 10

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 11:50:29 AM

DarkSteven

Posts: 28072
Joined: 5/2/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bondagelove1978

I stil didnt get any advice on this subject outside of the scene. What if the dominant doesnt do scenes and just starts to mess the submisives brain using their inperfection against them? There are many situations in wiche this can show up.

Then you walk away.

If you open yourself up regarding which buttons can tear you down and your Dom/me does that regularly, it's not healthy. Walk.

_____________________________

"You women....

The small-breasted ones want larger breasts. The large-breasted ones want smaller ones. The straight-haired ones curl their hair, and the curly-haired ones straighten theirs...

Quit fretting. We men love you."

(in reply to Bondagelove1978)

Post #: 11

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 12:36:53 PM

Andalusite

Posts: 2492
Joined: 1/25/2009
Status: offline

Bondagelove, I think it depends on how that is negotiated between the people involved. Personally, I'm not much into humiliation or degradation. My Master frequently does things to me when we aren't in a scene - pinching a nipple, yanking my hair, slapping my ass or face or breasts. I tend to think of it as very affectionate, like giving a quick kiss in passing. I've done similar things to my submissive in the past, and other people I've been involved with. If those words are damaging your self-esteem, and you don't view it as a positive aspect of your relationship, then you need to discuss it with your Domme. If you feel that confining them to "scene" time would make it easier to separate from your self-image, you should let her know that. If it's a limit you've discovered, you need to tell her. "Random acts of sadism" aren't inherently abusive, whether they are physical or verbal, but they *should* be desired by both people and consented to.

LP, while I haven't generally done much with humiliation play, I think that "stupid," "ugly," or "worthless" could be used in a scene in a positive way. For example, I could see them being used in a schoolgirl/schoolboy "bully" scene or in an interrogation/torture type of scene, where it is clearly in character rather than directed at the individual person.

< Message edited by Andalusite -- 2/27/2010 12:42:15 PM >

(in reply to DarkSteven)

Post #: 12

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 2:15:17 PM

seasvoice

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/2/2010
Status: offline

hello, In the first place I called him stupid and uneducated and thats it. I bet I can find a sexy hot genius guy who would have a hard on calling him stupid. Lets be serious some dominant people spit their slaves. Is not that more humilliating?

(in reply to Andalusite)

Post #: 13

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 6:33:22 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

Most submisives or slaves dont mind to be called stupid, arogant, uneducated, worthless and so on in a session.

I see this in fantasy BDSM or but not in real life BDSM relationships.

My advice to you, watch less BDSM porn, get to know more real Dommes.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Bondagelove1978)

Post #: 14

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 6:36:02 PM

LadyAngelika

Posts: 8070
Joined: 7/4/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bondagelove1978

I stil didnt get any advice on this subject outside of the scene. What if the dominant doesnt do scenes and just starts to mess the submisives brain using their inperfection against them? There are many situations in wiche this can show up.

Like randome dominant just starts verbally abusing you? Easy, walk away.

Or your dominant? Talk to them and if they can't understand your needs and limits, then not as easy perhaps, but still, walk away.

- LA

_____________________________

Une main de fer dans un gant de velours ~ An iron hand in a velvet glove

(in reply to Bondagelove1978)

Post #: 15

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 10:45:29 PM

Domin8tingUrDrmz

Posts: 1269
Joined: 4/8/2006
From: Portland Metro, Oregon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: seasvoice

hello, In the first place I called him stupid and uneducated and thats it. I bet I can find a sexy hot genius guy who would have a hard on calling him stupid. Lets be serious some dominant people spit their slaves. Is not that more humilliating?

Being spat on may or may not be more humiliating - it solely depends upon the individual. Some may find being spat on hot, kinky, delicious fun and find being called stupid and uneducated heart-wrenching, emotional abuse. You really need to hear how the activity is affecting your submissive partner before deciding which is MORE degrading/humiliating. Because what is more humiliating/degrading to you may not be perceived in the same manner by your submissive.

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Post #: 16

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/27/2010 11:52:42 PM

Bondagelove1978

Posts: 5
Joined: 2/25/2010
Status: offline

Depends on the situation in wiche you call him stupid, if its on a chatsite where this hot genius guy is hiding his treu identity as a submisive and wants you to verbaly abuse him. He will get a hard on. But in real life, as a partner who respects you and loves you? I dont think so. If its obviouse youre just messing with him, ok. If you realy think it and then say it, then i think its unexeptable.
I might be wrong and i am not saying i know everything. Its just my opinion.

(in reply to seasvoice)

Post #: 17

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/28/2010 1:44:25 AM

seasvoice

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/2/2010
Status: offline

hello again, in the first place the problem is that Im not your partener this is how you call yourself , Im really sorry but Im not responsible for this. Second you dont love me you love your imagination about me, to love someone means to know that person and then u might decide if u love what you find or you dont. I reminde u that I had real submissives in my life and I called them stupid or idiots, and I loved them and they loved me also. Do u think they did not have a soul? U have a problem with being named stupid, let me tell u a story I had a submissive and when I got depressed I called him at 4 o clock in the morning! a bussy guy with few businesses , I called and woke up him and that calmed down me, I disappointed him with promissing to him Im going to visit him or live with him and I didnt, I blackmailed him and he is not into this either , and after all these years (4) the only things I hear from him is hom much he likes me, how much he apreciates me , how much he values our friendship. After all these years he is still searching for me on Internet. These kind of things build links for life. Do u think I can forget a guy like him who likes me when I act the way he loves but who is there for me despite my bad qualities? There is a reverse on this situation, do u know wich is? The fact that when u are accepted and understood for what you are, you will send that back and u will forgive that person too. Im not going to change anything on my personality only because it does not feel right on you. I preffer to live in my world with my people and even we are not perffect or we have limits related with human relationships, there is this magic, we are our true inner self and we love each other for what we have no matter what it is.

(in reply to Bondagelove1978)

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RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/28/2010 2:41:39 AM

dario8

Posts: 2
Joined: 3/4/2009
Status: offline

hello, if i may be permitted to add my humble opinion - i believe that a "sexy hot genius guy" can most certainly get turned on by being called stupid - if he is truly submissive, if he truly knows his place in this world. i agree with what SEASVOICE says about love - if the domina truly loves the submissive then she knows what kind of treatment he requires from her and is sure to give it to him - otherwise the relationship is not complete. even in bdsm it is a give and take situation, otherwise it will not last long. sure, the domina can take more than she gives, sounds reasonable, but as in the example above her relationship did not last because she did not go to live with him - she did not give enough. she asks who could possibly love her despite her "bad qualities"... that is simple: a true submissive who needs to be put in his place and humiliated and treated badly in order to be satisfied will fall very quickly in love with her - she is PERFECT in every way. and if she accepts and understands and respects his needs then she is ready to genuinely love that person! i hope so. thank you for allowing me to share

(in reply to seasvoice)

Post #: 19

RE: Creating balance in a bdsm relation. - 2/28/2010 3:13:36 AM

seasvoice

Posts: 3
Joined: 1/2/2010
Status: offline

U see an aswer from a cute submissive, he would not create a huricane if I would call him *idiot* ,

(in reply to dario8)

Post #: 20

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