quote:

such as smoking inside public buildings needs to be restricted for the public good, people with allergies to cigarettes and other respiratory ailments have a right to public spaces too...

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

I do get it, if they wanted to sell me arsenic as Vitamin C you would see nothing wrong with that... buyer beware....

I agree that we need more laws to regulate these fuckers that would seek to harm our health... not less laws as you are advocating

(I apologize in advance for the rant -- I just lost my right to milk produced by my own goat by the Texas government after they declared my boarding/tending/milking arrangement to be an "animal share" and illegal in TX, because I have them bred and milked out on a farm, and I live in the city!!!)

I don't think anyone here is advocating that companies that practice bad business should get away scot free --- in fact, I advocate dissolving the "corporate person", so that individuals who own shares in a company that damages other people or property with its business practices are liable for the penalties therein.

However, I -don't- think the government should have any say in what I put in my body when and where... PERIOD. If I want to drink raw milk, that is illegal in most states in the US -- how ridiculous is that? When I was growing up, I worked on a dairy farm and drank raw cows milk every single day for nearly 15 years. Now, in order to be able to live running a dairy and sell one's milk, the government seals up the farmer's tanks and requires that they milk by machine, so that the milk has to go to the processor and the farmer has to buy it back at RETAIL to get the milk that they produce themselves. What kind of crap is that?

My body is mine. If I want to trash it, that's my business. It only becomes the government's business if I trash myself in a way that damages someone ELSE or someone else's property (like drinking and driving).

While, in general, I have been in favor of single-payer insurance, I have to admit that one of my concerns, seeing the willingness of our government to cast away individual freedoms as soon as some special-interest group leans hard enough on them, is that single-payer insurance would become an excuse to legislate every single action that we take -- and then what are we but government puppets? If I have to sacrifice single-payer insurance (or -any- insurance) to keep my freedom about how I choose to heal myself or treat myself, I'm all good with that.

Of course, we know I'm a renegade, so I'll just keep my own counsel, and find my own Coventry, should the Regulation Nation get its way and regulate us into perfectly controlled little carbon copies of each other.

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the thing is- what works in one locale may or may not work in another locale. all politics is local. I support local control.

maybe they need to slam people in jail over in UK- but we do not here. not for this.

the infraction is civil-- (IMO) not criminal. we very much have to be careful as to what we allow any govt to do.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ??
theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered??
ya right
not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt  pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it.

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

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such as smoking inside public buildings needs to be restricted for the public good, people with allergies to cigarettes and other respiratory ailments have a right to public spaces too...

Ok, and can you give me some rational argument for not being allowed to smoke in your own private car...??? Because those laws are in place in several states now. Where does it stop. Will laws be put into place to keep me from smoking in the apartment I pay rent for, because my name isn't on the deed????

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ??
theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered??
ya right
not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt  pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it.

a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid.  jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts.

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

quote:

As a former smoker that realizes how cigarette companies get customers, influencing them to smoke before reaching adulthood, well no, they don't come to your door beating you up for quitting, but they sure as hell had a hand in getting you to start in the first place.

Bullshit. I -chose- to start smoking. I saw others doing it, thought it looked cool, and actually had to WORK to start smoking, while my body retched and hacked... I was 15 years old, and old enough to know that it was (1) not a good thing... I'd had plenty of people including my parents tell me so, and (2) would "stunt my growth and shorten my life"... again... LOTS of input telling me what to do to avoid those problems. You know what... I DIDN'T CARE. I wanted the experience. It seemed interesting to me, and looked like fun, so I did it... and when it turned out not to be so much fun, it was plain old stubbornness that got me through -- personal choice... "I -am- going to learn how to smoke these things!"

Most of the problems in this country come from people who are unwilling to take personal responsibility for their bad choices, and try to find someone else to pawn it off on.

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania

quote:

the thing is- what works in one locale may or may not work in another locale. all politics is local. I support local control.

maybe they need to slam people in jail over in UK- but we do not here. not for this.

the infraction is civil-- (IMO) not criminal. we very much have to be careful as to what we allow any govt to do.

People suffer from asthma in every state

People suffer from emphysema in every state

People suffer from allergies in every state

Complications to airborne exposure to certain allergen are respiratory infections... all because someone wants to smoke up a joint and not respect other people's rights for better air quality.

This question totally impacts my health... it is not some airy fairy debate of no importance to me. As I type this post I am on several different medications to control my allergies because what I thought was the flu turned out to be something else... I am sensitive to airborne pollutants to the point they incapacitate me if I do not control it 24-7... and some pollutants make me sick no matter what I take... tobacco is one such pollutant.. it is why I quit smoking, and I am not alone. Why should people have the freedom to make the air so toxic that their fellow human beings either have to stay home all the time or have to take antibiotics just to share space with them?  If you can come up with one good justification for allowing people to smoke in public buildings when they can haul their smoking asses outside, I could entertain it perhaps.

I have thought of applying at the University of Chicago, but I would be spending a lot of time at home by myself if I do, seeing I can't handle smoker pollution

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ORIGINAL: juliaoceania


Your kids health should be motivation enough...

I didn't smoke in my house or my car after my son was born... but you know, I thought his right to clean air superseded my right to puff on cancer sticks...

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

Ok, and can you give me some rational argument for not being allowed to smoke in your own private car...???

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

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ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ??
theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered??
ya right
not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt  pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it.

a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid.  jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts.

Although, to be accurate, here, PA, if you state, in front of the judge, that you're not going to pay the fine, they -will- slap your butt in jail for contempt.

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Will laws be put into place to keep me from smoking in the apartment I pay rent for, because my name isn't on the deed????

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ??
theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered??
ya right
not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt  pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it.

a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid.  jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts.

quote:

My kids are grown and gone. I didn't smoke when my kids were at home -at all-... in the house, in the car, or even in secret. So I should still be subject to draconian laws because someone else has kids and can't handle their personal life enough to not smoke where it can tox out their kids???

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ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

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Calla, so you don't think that filling a pub (or bar, restaurant, office, whatever) with cigarette fumes is imposing your self abuse on anybody else? I can take your point, but you don't seem to be following it through very rigorously.

Actually, I've always taken personal responsibility for this stuff, and never smoked in restaurants, train stations, etc... Bars, I -have- smoked in, and my philosophy on that is, if I don't want to deal with ADULTS who smoke in an adult venue, then maybe I need to find an outdoor bar (which I do often, choosing IceHouse-style, outdoor bar venues rather than enclosed ones), or skip the bar scene.

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

side note:

I buy silver coins off of ebay.   I can always tell the ones who come from a smoking house.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: pahunkboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lucylastic

so you can not pay a fine in the US and not get further shit ??
theres no come back if you dont pay a court appointed fine or appear in court if ordered??
ya right
not talking about smoking per se, as I am an ex smoker now(six months) but I still think the guy shouldnt get jail, but in reality, he didnt  pay a fine, showed contempt for court, he isnt gonna get way from it.

a parking ticket can go- 20 years and never be paid.  jail is for ciminal act- not civil law mis acts.

In American law, perhaps, but didn't you start the thread whining about how the UK is the Conspiracy's bitch, unlike you armed free Americans who can't smoke in their own cars in some states? (You're not legally required to meet HSE regulations on homegrown produce over here either, come to that...)

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ORIGINAL: Moonhead

quote:

ORIGINAL: CallaFirestormBW

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Calla, so you don't think that filling a pub (or bar, restaurant, office, whatever) with cigarette fumes is imposing your self abuse on anybody else? I can take your point, but you don't seem to be following it through very rigorously.

Actually, I've always taken personal responsibility for this stuff, and never smoked in restaurants, train stations, etc... Bars, I -have- smoked in, and my philosophy on that is, if I don't want to deal with ADULTS who smoke in an adult venue, then maybe I need to find an outdoor bar (which I do often, choosing IceHouse-style, outdoor bar venues rather than enclosed ones), or skip the bar scene.

Fair enough, but can you get your head around the counter argument that it might be nice for non smokers to have somewhere they can go for a drink in February?