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RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 11:29:42 AM   
FatDomDaddy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Do I feel more comfortable with Obama overseeing the scope of how the Patriot Act will be utilized than the previous administration...Hell yeah!!!



Of course you do!

(in reply to domiguy)
Profile   Post #: 41
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 11:33:19 AM   
slvemike4u


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quote:

ORIGINAL: FatDomDaddy


quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

Do I feel more comfortable with Obama overseeing the scope of how the Patriot Act will be utilized than the previous administration...Hell yeah!!!



Of course you do!
Who wouldn't....FDD are you actually suggesting that Cheney/Bush were trustworthy( if you were a Saudi prince or a Haliburton executive I guess you had no reason to doubt...lol)?

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


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RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 11:44:58 AM   
domiguy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy


I imagine that it is simply the case that there are too many irons in the fire to address them all.



And what does that say what about the competence of our Chief Executive, DG?  Wouldn't you think that reflects poorly on his leadership, and priorities?





Do I think there are more pressing matters than the Patriot Act that are on the table right at this moment...Yeah. I think it is paramount that this country get a grip on health care...From the cost to how it is dispensed to what providers as well as insurance companies make.

We are paying 18%? of gdp to health ins costs compared to 7-8% of competing nations. This is something that has to get under control not only for the health of our citizens but the health of this nation.

Obviously we have out political slants....Do I think that the Patriot Act in the hands of the Obama administration is anywhere as
an invasive tool as might have been employed by Cheney/Bush? Not a chance. However, it needs to go away and the sooner the better.





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Profile   Post #: 43
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 12:37:56 PM   
sweetboundesire


Posts: 285
Joined: 10/29/2009
Status: offline 		i do like the fact Obama is letting medical marijuana industry have their free enterprise in Colorado. Letting the people speak for what they want/need. I like how much money he is throwing at cleaning up and taking care Lake Michigan. I don't like everything but these things are nice to see.

Feingold is my hero for being the one senator to read and not vote for the Patriot Act.

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and i know, money ain't real...

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Profile   Post #: 44
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 12:47:47 PM   
Real0ne


Posts: 21189
Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

It will come up again in a year and hopefully at that time it will be corrected.



There has been a sunset clause built into every incarnation of this awful law.  Somehow, that didn't seem to have the same "oh well, we'll fix it next year" anti-anxiety effect we are seeing now.

Don't get your hopes up, anyway.  The Dems are going to waste their opportunity to address this by spending all their time not getting health care passed, and then not getting re-elected. 




sunset clauses are meaningless, hey just vote it in every year like the standing army.


_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

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Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

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(in reply to TheHeretic)
Profile   Post #: 45
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 12:49:04 PM   
Real0ne


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Joined: 10/25/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sweetboundesire

i do like the fact Obama is letting medical marijuana industry have their free enterprise in Colorado. Letting the people speak for what they want/need. I like how much money he is throwing at cleaning up and taking care Lake Michigan. I don't like everything but these things are nice to see.

Feingold is my hero for being the one senator to read and not vote for the Patriot Act.


and Ron Paul on the rep side!

_____________________________

"We the Borg" of the us imperialists....resistance is futile

Democracy; The 'People' voted on 'which' amendment?

Yesterdays tinfoil is today's reality!

"No man's life, liberty, or property is safe while the legislature is in session

(in reply to sweetboundesire)
Profile   Post #: 46
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 1:12:07 PM   
TheHeretic


Posts: 19100
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From: California, USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

We are paying 18%? of gdp to health ins costs compared to 7-8% of competing nations. This is something that has to get under control not only for the health of our citizens but the health of this nation.

Obviously we have out political slants....Do I think that the Patriot Act in the hands of the Obama administration is anywhere as
an invasive tool as might have been employed by Cheney/Bush? Not a chance. However, it needs to go away and the sooner the better.





Second point first, DG.  Yes.  We have our slants, but that sort of totalitarian tool in the hands of administration with no practical, real-world experience bothers me a bit more than under Bush II.  Too many of the people who are supposed to be watching, are willing to give the left a little too much benefit of the doubt.

As for fixing health care, the longer I look at the mess, the closer I am forced towards an answer I don't like one bit.  Plus, that answer I don't like, is going to make the quality of service go down for the overwhelming majority of Americans who currently have decent private coverage.  I'm still not convinced that the cure wouldn't be worse than the disease.




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Profile   Post #: 47
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 2:29:47 PM   
popeye1250


Posts: 18104
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: New Hampshire
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: DarkSteven

I've said it before, and I'll say it again (and again, and again...) I do not like Bush's policies, whether they're adopted by Bush or Obama.

Why the righties claim that he's a wild-eyed Socialist while he continues Bush's policies... weird country.




Steven, yeah, Obama is absolutely "republican."
Man, he got into office and he dropped all that "change" stuff like a bad habit!
Big corporations are his friends not the American People.

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Profile   Post #: 48
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 2:45:01 PM   
domiguy


Posts: 12952
Joined: 5/2/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TheHeretic

quote:

ORIGINAL: domiguy

We are paying 18%? of gdp to health ins costs compared to 7-8% of competing nations. This is something that has to get under control not only for the health of our citizens but the health of this nation.

Obviously we have out political slants....Do I think that the Patriot Act in the hands of the Obama administration is anywhere as
an invasive tool as might have been employed by Cheney/Bush? Not a chance. However, it needs to go away and the sooner the better.





Second point first, DG.  Yes.  We have our slants, but that sort of totalitarian tool in the hands of administration with no practical, real-world experience bothers me a bit more than under Bush II.  Too many of the people who are supposed to be watching, are willing to give the left a little too much benefit of the doubt.

As for fixing health care, the longer I look at the mess, the closer I am forced towards an answer I don't like one bit.  Plus, that answer I don't like, is going to make the quality of service go down for the overwhelming majority of Americans who currently have decent private coverage.  I'm still not convinced that the cure wouldn't be worse than the disease.





What was the experience of GW? You surround yourself with knowledgeable folks and hope for the best.

Health care? it is broken. Doctors charge medicare $15,000 for a hip replacement medicare approves $1,500. The poor sap that is uninsured or under insured fights it out. What gives a doctor the right to charge $15,000.00 for a joint replacement that takes around an hour to perform?

we need a medicare cost approval system set up for the entire country. It could work. Knock out the fraud, add some serious rort reform and we are providing the citizens of this land some quality health care as well as making our country immediately more competitive on a global front. It has to be done.

The retired people of this land tend to vote conservative and they are basking in the glow and care of socialized medicine. They just don't get it or care to acknowledge that fact.

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Profile   Post #: 49
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 6:18:51 PM   
AnimusRex


Posts: 2165
Joined: 5/13/2006
Status: offline 		OK, so here is my take on it; at first blush, I am ok with extending the provisions that require a court order to spy on people; I am fine with doing just about anything, as long as there is due process to protect the citizen's rights.

From the AP story-
"The Senate also approved the measure, with privacy protections cast aside when Senate Democrats lacked the necessary 60-vote supermajority to pass them. Thrown away were restrictions and greater scrutiny on the government's authority to spy on Americans and seize their records."

So...my verdict is NO. And it is duly noted that the Constitutional safeguards were thrown away under pressure from Republicans. (the tricorner hat-wearing Thomas-Paine quoting shouters of "give me liberty of give me death"- yeah, those guys).

I don't support this, no matter whose signature is on it.


Oh, don't get me wrong, Obama is still my personal Lord and Savior; and I still sacrifice a chicken every night to his picture on an altar in my bedroom. I mean, c'mon, lets not get crazy!

I just don't support this.



(in reply to Sanity)
Profile   Post #: 50
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 2/28/2010 9:46:29 PM   
thornhappy


Posts: 8596
Joined: 12/16/2006
Status: offline 		Dude, shouldn't you spring for a goat?  A chicken's kind of chintzy, don'cha know?

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Profile   Post #: 51
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 3/1/2010 12:08:22 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		FR

I saw three pages on this and jumped through. Blacks, Women and certain others are easier to control. They want them as our government puppets.

Blacks, Women and certain other are easier to control. Do you care to consider just whom is harder to comtrol ?

> T (and a hell of alot more people than you think)

No, he did not sign it because he is half Black, he signed it because he kowtows to REAL authority. I do not and that is why I would be in a pool of blood before inauguration. I don't fuck araound. We need real change and we need it now, and this supposed Messiah is as much as a nosebleed as the last, despite skin color. I callem as I seeum.

T

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Profile   Post #: 52
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 3/1/2010 12:36:10 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

Confiscating funds.....again court approved, and as such not arbitrary...money is a weapon...the denying of those same funds to terrorists or their organizations is an effective an necessary tool to fight the evil-doers(okay, that last evil- doers part was me having fun).



Is there a trial and the opportunity to offer a defence before having funds confiscated?

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Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

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Profile   Post #: 53
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 3/1/2010 1:04:29 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Nope, not in this country.

T

(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 54
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 3/1/2010 2:55:47 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Termyn8or

Nope, not in this country.

T


We had this going on here for a while - the government/intelligence services/police having the power to confiscate the funds of suspected terrorists. The courts declared it illegal a couple of months back so they no longer have this power.

And there have been cases of the police kicking people's doors through (and actually shooting people) only to find nothing and declare: "well.....sorry about that.....our intelligence told us otherwise.....must have been a mistake somewhere along the line". So - by virtue of their own admission - their intelligence is suspect and it follows thus there's an admission that they are more than capable of getting it wrong (and really shouldn't have such powers).

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
Profile   Post #: 55
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 3/1/2010 8:03:34 AM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		No ,but one would think that after a trial...if the gov't's case were proved groundless those funds would be returned....in the meantime.....just in case gov't is correct and those funds were being used to support terrorist activities well they are denied those resources.


Animus, Thomas Paine never said "give me liberty or give me death"that would have been Patrick Henry on March 23rd 1775....hell I'm not even sure old Ben Franklin had sent poor destitute Paine to the Colonies at that point...Paine of course provided plenty of other quotes with his pamphlets "Common Sense" and ,perhaps saving the Revolution with "The American Crisis"......"These are the times that try men's souls......."

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 56
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 3/3/2010 11:18:19 AM   
NorthernGent


Posts: 8730
Joined: 7/10/2006
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quote:

ORIGINAL: slvemike4u

No ,but one would think that after a trial




If you really think that it's fine to take away someone's privileges on the basis of suspicion then you want to have a close look at your supposed liberal values - because I guarantee you that is a position sitting outside of the core principle of Liberalism.

_____________________________

I have the courage to be a coward - but not beyond my limits.

Sooner or later, the man who wins is the man who thinks he can.

(in reply to slvemike4u)
Profile   Post #: 57
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 3/3/2010 1:58:29 PM   
slvemike4u


Posts: 17896
Joined: 1/15/2008
From: United States
Status: offline 		My "liberal" values are fine NG,I really don't see the conflict...of course that might just be a result of having been living in New York in 2001 and worrying if my ex-wife,mother of my only child (who worked in a building across the street from the towers) was alright.Pragmatism is not solely the province of conservatives

_____________________________

If we want things to stay as they are,things will have to change...Tancredi from "the Leopard"

Forget Guns-----Ban the pools

Funny stuff....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNwFf991d-4


(in reply to NorthernGent)
Profile   Post #: 58
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 3/3/2010 2:11:46 PM   
mnottertail


Posts: 60698
Joined: 11/3/2004
Status: offline 		NG....

Current law in the US is siezing around the idea of reasonable suspicion and flight risk (be it person or property winging it).

Yanno, our liberals are not your liberals and our conservatives are not your conservatives.

It isn't as gangsterish a notion as one might imagine.

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Profile   Post #: 59
RE: Obama signs one-year extension of Patriot Act - 3/3/2010 10:43:39 PM   
luckydawg


Posts: 2448
Joined: 9/2/2009
Status: offline 		Yeah NG it is ok because Obama is president. The same laws were only facist and gangsterish 2 years ago, because The president was of a different party. Now they are cool.

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Profile   Post #: 60
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