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Smoker's IQ - 2/28/2010 9:37:27 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Other day the TV news reported that a smoker scores lower on an IQ test than a non smoker by eight or ten points, I forget. But it was something like that.

I CLAIM DISCRIMINATION. I'd play the race card if I had it. We know it works. Fact is I think these guys are not all that smart. Were all the great innovators in the world non-smokers ? And how did they do on an IQ test ? From what my lone brain cell can retrieve, weren't a few inventors called "slow" in school ?

Take guys like Bell, Edison and Carver, can it be found out whether or not they smoked ? If it is found that they did not, does that mean that smoking detracts from one's IQ, or that higher IQ people simply do not imbibe in smoking ? Or can any conclusion be drawn ?

What if it is found that the great innovators did smoke ? If so do we hem and haw about "margin of error" and "entrant profiling" or just figure they're full of crapola ? Or do we consider these to be exceptions to the rule, out of hand randomness and such ? Can we assume they would've invented more if they kicked the habit, other than the factor of their possibly living longer ?

Or should I take the far side and say that smokers don't care whether they live or die ? And in that case, is that stupidity, or not ? Based on many people's reality, I can fully understand why some don't care. In other words some people are in bad shape.

Another factor is this - A pollster called the other day and I told them politely that I do not participate in polls. I did this most likely with a cigarette in my hand. Could it be that some of us are so smart that we know better than to get into the poll trap ? Because I know this much, if some guy is out on the street giving out IQ tests and the first question is whether or not I smoke I'd wipe my ass with it. And who paid for this stupidity in the first place ? More importantly WHY ?

It's amazing that in a country this broke, people have enough time on their hands to worry about this stupid non-issue. Now who's stupid ?

(I know what your thinking, don't even bother going there LOL)

T
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RE: Smoker's IQ - 2/28/2010 9:48:44 AM   
MichiganHeadmast


Posts: 726
Joined: 8/13/2006
Status: offline 		I don't smoke but I hang out with smokers. Haven't given any an IQ test but I rarely do that anyway as it isn't a criteria for who I hang with. I hang out with those whom I find the most fun. That can be smokers or drinkers, righties or lefties, guys or chicks.

Now prohibitionists, of any stripe, are really boring to hang out with.

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Smoker's IQ - 2/28/2010 11:47:16 AM   
NeedToUseYou


Posts: 2297
Joined: 12/24/2005
From: None of your business
Status: offline 		More than likely this has some truth to it, though, I'm doubtful it is caused by smoking. From what I read in the past smoking over time, has moved down the socioeconomic ladder, to now, most people that smoke are lower or middle class, the lower down the income ladder you go the less educated you are (by probablity), and the more likely you are to smoke and one can infer in general the less education plays a role in your life the less intellectually stimulated you are, therefore it would reason that ones IQ would suffer.

Unless the study was designed  to account for such things.

< Message edited by NeedToUseYou -- 2/28/2010 11:48:25 AM >

(in reply to Termyn8or)
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RE: Smoker's IQ - 2/28/2010 11:57:11 AM   
Moonhead


Posts: 16520
Joined: 9/21/2009
Status: offline 		Need's on the money, here: if you grew up eating a shit diet in your formative years, you won't be as smart as somebody who was eating a lot of fruit and veg before they hit school.

And Termy, as I already pointed out in pahunkboy's thread, you can sod off claiming discrimination. Sorry, but smokers are the very model of a social group who don't give a shit about anybody else's rights. Right leaning, "send them back" misogynists aren't really in the best position to start complaining about being an unfairly treated minority, are they?

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 2/28/2010 2:53:13 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		I have a few issues with this study.

To better understand the smoking-IQ relationship, the researchers looked at 20,211 18-year-old men recruited into the Israeli military. The group did not include anyone with major mental health problems, because these individuals are disqualified from military service.

According to the investigators, 28 percent of the study participants smoked at least one cigarette a day, around 3 percent said they were ex-smokers, and 68 percent had never smoked.

The smokers had significantly lower intelligence test scores than non-smokers, and this remained true even after the researchers accounted for socioeconomic status as measured by how many years of formal education a recruit's father had completed.




The study seems skewed for these reults.

Recruits aren't allowed to smoke while intelligence tests are administered, the researchers note, so it's possible that withdrawal symptoms might affect smokers' scores. To address this issue, they also looked at IQ scores for men who were non-smokers when they were 18 but started smoking during their military service. These men also scored lower than never-smokers (97 points, on average), "indicating that nicotine withdrawal was probably not the cause of the difference," the researchers say.


Withdrawal can be likened to heroin withdrawal. If you believe this wont affect test scores... lol.

The findings suggest that lower IQ individuals are more likely to choose to smoke, rather than that smoking makes people less intelligent, Weiser and his team conclude.

http://www.reutershealth.com/archive/2010/02/23/eline/links/20100223elin001.html

Then again, if forced withdrawal is part of the program, IQ scores will be lower naturally.



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RE: Smoker's IQ - 2/28/2010 3:26:03 PM   
ThatDamnedPanda


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

The findings suggest that lower IQ individuals are more likely to choose to smoke, rather than that smoking makes people less intelligent, Weiser and his team conclude.



Of course. The smarter you are, the more likely you are to make smart decisions. The dumber you are, the more likely you are to make dumb decisions. Choosing to smoke is a dumb decision. Duh.

What's next, a survey to determine whether blind drivers  are more likely to have car accidents than drivers who can see?


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RE: Smoker's IQ - 2/28/2010 5:57:21 PM   
tazzygirl


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Status: offline 		My objection is that the test was given while they were in a forced abstinence. Do you believe that had no affect on the outcome?

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Telling me to take Midol wont help your butthurt.
RIP, my demon-child 5-16-11
Duchess of Dissent 1
Dont judge me because I sin differently than you.
If you want it sugar coated, dont ask me what i think! It would violate TOS.

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 2/28/2010 10:13:05 PM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
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Status: offline 		FR

Hmmmmmm. I hadn't considered he forced abstinence issue pervading this. This is probably because I have no problem with it. If I ever showed signs of withdrawal from anything my family would kill me. But I have to remember that others are different. I mean I can do as long as you want without intoxicants, smokes, whatever, even food. I mean I can go work hard at construction labor for a week without eating and I know this because I have done it. But others are different. I must remember that. I can go a long time - with nothing. I mean even water. Part of the reason is that my blood sugar is more stable than the Rock of Gibraltor. But that's neither here nor there because I am not the subject of this topic.

This is an important point though, when the personalities of most people now are so addictable, it is ridiculous. Really it is a valid point. Think of a coke addict coming down and "crashing" having to take an IQ test. Think of a drunk having the dry heaves or puking all over the floor. Do you think the results would really be the best they can do ?

More later.

T

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 6:41:41 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: tazzygirl

My objection is that the test was given while they were in a forced abstinence. Do you believe that had no affect on the outcome?

That's definitely a fair point. It isn't going to help their results any, but maybe part of the point was to demonstrate that the people tested had an addiction that needs feeding?

_____________________________

I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 8:40:45 AM   
LadyEllen


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From: Stourport-England
Status: offline 		I was of the impression that IQ tests had long since been discredited as indicating anything very much?

Or, shall we next have the discussion about how IQ tests conducted on those of African or Australian Aboriginal origin demonstrate that the participants are far below average European intelligence?

All I believe we can say about smokers (indeed about any group that uses a psycho-active substance, including occasional alcohol consumers) is that the substance in some way satisfies a psycho-social need. And since individuals have differing psychologies and indeed find themselves even within a uniform cultural environment in varying social situations, it is going to be near impossible to state anything much beyond that observation without setting out to prove a predetermined outcome such that it may be applied to all in the class.

E

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In a test against the leading brand, 9 out of 10 participants couldnt tell the difference. Dumbasses.

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 9:03:04 AM   
Moonhead


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
I was of the impression that IQ tests had long since been discredited as indicating anything very much?

They're pretty handy for measuring your ability to do IQ tests, and can provide a useful index for smugness in b list celebrities (Sharon "look at my big shaved brain" Stone springs to mind for a start...)

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I like to think he was eaten by rats, in the dark, during a fog. It's what he would have wanted...
(Simon R Green on the late James Herbert)

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 9:13:54 AM   
Termyn8or


Posts: 18681
Joined: 11/12/2005
Status: offline 		Intelligence testing has indeed become a complex subject. And what constitutes true intelligence anyway ? For example I can tell you how to make a neutron bomb, turn a microwave into a lethal weapon, how to do many things. I can and have designed and built electronic equipment, and I mean with nothing but a six dollar calculator. However I have no idea how to filet a fish, to gut a deer, any of that survival stuff, except to shoot. These are basic survival skills that I lack. So really am I that smart ?

For example you could be a top engineer at NASA and be most of the brains that put a Man on the moon, but be unable to fry up a burger, or maybe even to effectively and safely boil a pot of water. You may have designed the camshaft, roller lifters and entire intake system for the 3800 Grand National engine (I'had a few, I LIKE them) and yet be unable to change a flat tire.

The word is savant, but it's meaning is too severe in degree to use in most situations. And additionally, if you want to give any kind of IQ test and have quantifiable results, the questions must be the same for all. This can prove difficult to manage.

Perhaps there is no real test of intelligence. Or maybe it is life. I know an HVAC engineer who can't balance a checkbook. My boss is not stupid by any stretch of the imagination, but he has an ignorant streak about a mile wide. Well the guy is in his sixties. Even if he was as ignorant as a bowling ball an intelligence test would not find him to be stupid. These things bring a whole new dimension into the mix.

And, just to get one in edgewise - Hitler was a non smoker :-)

Is intelligence truly quantifiable ? Right now the indications are running towards the negative. And if you really want to go somewhere with this, of all the people I know, the most intelligent among them smoke pot. Throw that in your pipe and light it up. Ironic yes, but you already know that irony and I are very close. Known associates in fact.

T


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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 11:14:50 AM   
Musicmystery


Posts: 30259
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Status: offline 		Let's put it this way.

Trashing about indignantly without evidence isn't any smarter than a flawed study.

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 3:24:29 PM   
Aneirin


Posts: 6121
Joined: 3/18/2006
From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		This sounds to me more like yet another attempt to force those that still smoke after all the scaremongering has failed to quit. The anti smoking brigade have attacked the health of people, now they are attacking their intelligence level and by using IQ type testing, not quite saying to a smokers face that they are thick as pig shit for smoking after they have been told not to.

Smoking is an addiction for some and a choice for others, of those to whom it is a choice, have we lost the ability to make choices in this namby pamby round cornered modern world.

It is a choice to go rock climbing, hang gliding, pot holing, any number of high risk activities, the participant has made a choice undoubtedly knowing full well the consequences, a  possibility of serious injury or death if shit happens, but they do it, because they enjoy it, no one is questioning their intelligence by psychometfric testing, they are just being allowed to get on with it, why should the same courtesy not be allowed to those who choose to smoke.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 3:50:21 PM   
servantforuse


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Status: offline 		There are also studies that show that smokers have less income than non smokers. I guess that could coincide with a lower I Q ??

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 3:51:29 PM   
mnottertail


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Status: offline 		you must be a fuckin chimney then pal

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 4:01:37 PM   
Aneirin


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From: Tamaris
Status: offline 		That's true, but the opinion about intelligence quotient isn't.

It is very true though that those with health issues, quite often mental health are the majority of smokers. It also interesting that those with chronic health problems are also those who live on a lower income and some cases the lowest income.

So there is a correlation between smoking, use of alcohol, sometimes use of non prescription drugs, low income and chronic mental health issues, but what is it, why is it ?

If the answer can be found without dissent, that might end the drain on society, as this group are the largest users of social benefits.


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Everything we are is the result of what we have thought, the mind is everything, what we think, we become - Guatama Buddha

Conservatism is distrust of people tempered by fear - William Gladstone

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 4:24:05 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
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Status: offline 		I shall consider this when I light up next and contemplate that Einstein smoked. How silly. . Oh and financial status? Well, my wealthy friends smoke and certainly at $7.00 a pack I don't see it being a very fiscally sound choice for the poor. Diet? Hmm. I see an awful lot of very overwieght non smokers around, and while I agree that it isn't a wise choice to smoke, my diet is mainly organic and from farmer's markets etc., and definitely what I consider to be very healthy. Fuck me, I smoke on occasion, I am not going to be chagrined by this study.

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 4:26:50 PM   
Aileen1968


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quote:

ORIGINAL: servantforuse

There are also studies that show that smokers have less income than non smokers. I guess that could coincide with a lower I Q ??


Nooooooo. You need more income to be able to afford these. Yum!

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RE: Smoker's IQ - 3/1/2010 5:09:59 PM   
Aynne88


Posts: 3873
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Status: offline 		That. . After a fabulous dinner and with a yummy cognac . Nice taste Aileen~

_____________________________

As long as people will shed the blood of innocent creatures there can be no peace, no liberty, no harmony between people. Slaughter and justice cannot dwell together.
—Isaac Bashevis Singer, writer and Nobel laureate (1902–1991)



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