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RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/29/2006 7:56:09 PM   
MyCaptainsPet


Posts: 219
Joined: 1/22/2006
Status: offline 		Yes, i did.... but i never put the two names together until just now...

sad sad sad..

(in reply to LuckyAlbatross)
Profile   Post #: 21
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/29/2006 8:09:37 PM   
CERCKL


Posts: 1039
Joined: 3/4/2006
Status: offline
quote:

I can think of a thousand better ways to punish a sub other than taking away the symbol of our relationship. What would happen if a husband took away his wife's wedding ring because she pissed him off?


I have to agree here...for Me a collar, such as a wedding ring is not given lightly...and not something for Me to play with in such a manner....I only removed My wedding ring after My wife and I seperated, though she still wears hers...interesting, since she was the one who wanted to leave...I now have collared one and though I haven't physically gottrn the actual collar yet, it's removal, like the ring's removal, for Me, would symbolize the end. Period.
C

BTW I haven't gotten her collar yet, as I don't do leather, she wanted an 'actual' collar and it took a bit to find a vegan one online...


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Profile   Post #: 22
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/29/2006 8:26:18 PM   
BitaTruble


Posts: 9779
Joined: 1/12/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		For Himself to take away the collar he placed on me would mean he no longer has the ability to control the power he took and is giving it back to me.  To remove the collar as some sort of punishment removes his right to punish me at all... it's an ending and I would no longer call him Master nor would I work to regain a collar which has been stripped from me. I can't make anyone take my power... they have to want to take it, have the ability to take it.. then just take it and do what needs to be done to keep it, just as I have to do what needs to be done so they want to keep it.

Celeste

edited to add:: From Himself - removing the collar as punishment is like divorcing your wife for a while because you get mad at her.

< Message edited by BitaTruble -- 3/29/2006 8:31:40 PM >

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Rock, paper, scissors."

He laughed. "You are the wisest woman I know."


(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 23
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/29/2006 8:30:53 PM   
Evanesce


Posts: 2325
Joined: 9/14/2005
Status: offline 		Removing a collar for "punishment" is a stupid game played by stupid people.  If the slave sticks around, it devalues the significance of the collar.  But most people I know, if this were done to them, wouldn't stick around.  Removing the collar means severing the relationship.

_____________________________

Denise

Give a slave what he truly needs, and he will do what you want.

"There's never a hero in a battle of ego." - Big & Rich


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Profile   Post #: 24
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/29/2006 9:13:32 PM   
PrinceSitri


Posts: 99
Joined: 3/28/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

In a group on Yahoo they are discussing the removal of collars as a form of punishment.

i don't know, this just disturbs me... My collar is a symbol of US and of what we are together. 

Anyone have any thoughts on this????



The collar, surely, symbolises the relationship and I would regard its removal as an indication that the relationship is over - if that's not the intention then it's a silly thing to do.

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 25
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/29/2006 9:19:56 PM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		I really only see it as stupid if the relationship wasnt very well established..like really..what does a Master own...you...its not dependent on a collar..yet the submissive/slave forms an emotional link to the piece of jewelry around their neck as it symbolises their position...if the collar was there or wasnt.....the Master/Mistress would still own *you*....having a collar given to you is a symbolic gift, a privilege if you like.....the Master/slave relationship is not dependent on it. Heck I didnt wear a collar in public till....hrmm..well til last Christmas just gone....I know for me, if Master took it off me and hung it on the wall and said I had to earn it back...I wouldnt be walking out the door saying the relationship was over...I would accept he is really friggin mad with me and trying to make a very serious point...I would know I had some intense thinking to do over the meaning of my slavery...

Anyways, this is all hypothetical....frivolous taking of a collar by a Master is a dumb idea, it would play with the slaves emotions too much in a detrimental way.



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Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to Evanesce)
Profile   Post #: 26
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/29/2006 9:30:46 PM   
angelica4


Posts: 24
Joined: 8/25/2004
Status: offline 		well, i surely don't know as much about protocol as most of you seem to....but to me, it is a dumbass punishment.  most recently my punishment has been two weeks away from Master.    this is day three.  it hurts the most on day one, but by day three, i am feeling....as i am sure he intends, slighted, abandoned a bit, but also in my case, absence does not make the heart grow fonder.  i merely get colder.   it's sad.  perhaps these punishments and subsequent reunions work on the very young.  but now, they just seem stupid.  sorry if i offend anyone.  just the ramblings of an old sub who never did grow up.
loveya
angelica

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Profile   Post #: 27
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/29/2006 10:42:38 PM   
ownedgirlie


Posts: 9184
Joined: 2/5/2006
Status: offline 		Removal of a collar is the best way to kill trust, stability and any solid foundation in the relationship.  Even the name of this thread gave me a bad feeling.  i can't see anything good coming from such reckless punishment.  For me, my collar symbolises the bond i have as slave to my  Master.  When he first collared me, i made a poor judgment in obedience not too long after.  Having been used to "Doms" who yo-yo'd me back and forth, or simply abandoned me, i asked him if he would like his collar back.  i was trying to spare him the trouble of ordering it off of me.  He was shocked that i would ask, and asked if i placed that little value on his ownership of me.  It was at that time i understood he wasn't going anywhere - he was going to stick with me for the long haul, and was committed to fixing any problems or issues that came up with me, so long as i was willing to work for it.

Ms Hathor's "NO WAY, NEVER" comment was precisely what i felt when i saw this thread.  It makes me feel good to see that most people feel that way. 

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 28
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/29/2006 11:07:44 PM   
sonsei


Posts: 5
Status: offline 		My Master removed his collar from me a number of times in the 2 years that I was his. His reasoning was very much like slavejali has said:
quote:

"...the submissive/slave forms an emotional link to the piece of jewelry around their neck as it symbolises their position...if the collar was there or wasn't.....the Master/Mistress would still own *you*....having a collar given to you is a symbolic gift, a privilege if you like.....the Master/slave relationship is not dependent on it."

His ownership wasn't dependent on the collar, it was simply an outward symbol of his ownership. Removal of the collar wasn't punishment. It was a removal of the privilege of wearing it, a clear and undeniable sign that I hadn't been acting as his slave and if I truly wanted to continue being his slave, I'd better get my thinking straight. It was solid steel and due to the weight of it, I was constantly reminded that it wasn't where it 'belonged'. An event that accompanied the removal was a 3 day 'cooling off' and re-evaluation period. I spent those 3 days thinking about how I allowed a situation to escalate, what I could have done differently, and in general getting over my anger. The collar was replaced after the 3-day period - sometimes I asked for it, other times I felt it was better to wait and say nothing.

While I can see the logic of it, one major drawback was a loss of security. Fear of abandonment is common, and mine's actually a panic. Unfortunately, when it's triggered, I behave in ways which will just about guarantee abandonment if I continue. Rather than becoming clingy, I become belligerent and defiant, smart-alecky - a childish 'Who needs you?! I'll show you!' kind of attitude. I've gotten better at recognizing the triggers but still have trouble controlling the behaviors, sometimes don't realize I'm engaging in them, and the underlying panic and pain are still there. So when Master would take his collar from me, it just felt like one more person threatening to leave, loving me conditionally, loving me and taking it away because I 'wasn't good enough'. I know in my head that all of this is irrational, but that doesn't stop my gut from believing it. Still working on that. I think that with some people the removal of a collar could be very effective, for others it simply damages trust and security.

This whole subject kind of makes me wonder what punishment is for. My parents spanked me several times/month - painful spankings, usually in response to 'just being a kid' types of things. But the fact that it went on for years tells me it wasn't working, so why did they continue? If the goal of punishment is to stop a behavior, seems like Masters, parents, teachers, whoever, would find one that worked rather than using the same obviously ineffective one. And if it's not to stop a behavior, but is only to draw attention to the fact that they're displeased, it seems like there are more effective ways to accomplish that without damaging either the punishee or the relationship. Course if the punishment worked, it would only be necessary once. So if it's necessary to do it again and again, doesn't it seem like there's something to be explored? a reason for the behavior BEHIND the behavior?  
 
sonsei


 
   


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Profile   Post #: 29
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 12:18:22 AM   
RubberWitch


Posts: 1368
Joined: 7/27/2005
Status: offline 		I was with one person as they threatened a slave with this. (I was sort of exhibit A) The master leant over and removed the lock from the back of his girls collar, and informed her she could either remove the collar or repledge herself to him. She was in tears and repledged within 2 seconds, throwing herself prostrate at his feet.
When he was satisfied, he told her to turn her collar round and look at the buckle in the mirror. He had never unlocked it, thus showing A) he had known her response, B) he had not given her up for a second, and C) he would mindfuck her whenever he bloody felt like it.

She ran and lept into his lap like a puppy!

]v[

(in reply to sonsei)
Profile   Post #: 30
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 12:27:18 AM   
RavenMuse


Posts: 4030
Joined: 1/23/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet
In a group on Yahoo they are discussing the removal of collars as a form of punishment.
i don't know, this just disturbs me... My collar is a symbol of US and of what we are together. 
Anyone have any thoughts on this????


If you view punishment as something that might correct a fault, then yes it is punishment. Loosing you as a master might cause the girl to not make the same mistake with her next Master.

However IMO once I remove her collar... either because I can no longeraccept her as mine (usualy after some massive and irriparable breach of trust) or because she has requested it for whatever reason..... then it is over. No going back. The relationship between her and I on anything more than maybe a friend level is finished.

So if you view punishment as being to correct behaviour within the relationship, then no. I don't blow hot and cold, sending the girl away then having her crawl back to me. Second chances occure during consideration if at all, once my full collar goes round her neck then it is a commitment on both sides to the relationship.... one not lightly broken.


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This above all: to thine own self be true,
And it must follow, as the night the day,
Thou canst not then be false to any man.

Owner of metalmiss

(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 31
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 2:51:34 AM   
smilezz


Posts: 2156
Joined: 6/18/2004
Status: offline 		I'm not sure where these fingers will take me as i type this, hang in there with me a moment.   I have read all the posts, i actually agree with alot of them, there are even more with very strong feelings/emotions on this subject....with good cause i may add.
I am going to share something with y'all that made me stop and think about this. I have been a smoker now for more years than i care to say.  In December i saw an commercial on tv about smoking that said: "Are you a slave to cigarettes?"  I was overcome by this feeling of shame and hurt.  I was afterall a slave to Thorns, it never occured to me being a slave to anything else.  I aked Him for help in quitting smoking.  I had a rough day at work a few weeks later, i actually went out and bought a pack of cigarettes, i came home and even told Him what i did.  This is what happened.
He told me to grab the pack of smokes and meet Him in the Dungeon.  I did as He told me, He told me to kneel and said i would not like this.  Thorns removed the collar from around my neck, set the collar and the cigarettes on the bench, told me that i had 5 minutes alone in there and to decide who i was going to serve...Him or the cigarettes.  I could not be a slave to Him AND cigarettes.  My emotions ran high, i was pissed, i was sad, i felt lost, i thought that the collar obviously did not mean as much to Him as it did to me.  I was wrong of course.
I chose His collar, came out of the Dungeon and applogised for my actions.  I did ask Him for His help in this.  Was it punishment?  it felt like it to me...but what i learned from this was a lesson.  I had a choice. I have always wanted to serve Him, i don't want to be a slave to anything/anyone else.  It was a hard lesson learned, but an effective one.

While i do understand what y'all have posted, this was just one slave's story and the choices at hand.

Happy Thursday y'all...

~smilezz~

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(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 32
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 3:58:31 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		yeah smilezz, thats what Ive been meaning in my posts. If the relationship is solid, a collar can be used, its not a threat to the relationship...a Master can use anything to teach his slave a lesson, even a collar, it doesnt necessarily make him a bad Master. Your story was a really good example of that.


< Message edited by slavejali -- 3/30/2006 4:00:35 AM >

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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Profile   Post #: 33
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 4:07:07 AM   
ProtagonistLily


Posts: 1222
Joined: 12/27/2004
Status: offline 		Would you remove an engagement or a wedding ring as punishment? It's basically the same question.

Kassie


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(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 34
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 4:18:10 AM   
Submotive


Posts: 440
Joined: 9/9/2005
Status: offline 		Wow - some great posts here. A collar is sooo very deeply significant to me that if it were removed for some reason, i can't honestly say that i'd be able to feel safe in my relationship with Master again.
Yet in smileez situation, it was used to make an incredible point. i'm not addicted to anything so strongly that i am a slave to it - only Scotch Master, so hopefully i'm safe. Master is kind though too and i believe knowing how significant my collar is, He would never remove it unless it was to send me on my way.

_____________________________

Owned by Scotch Master

i would rather continue alone than be permitted to show only parts of myself to my Beloved.

If you're not living as you would like to today, when are you going to start?

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Profile   Post #: 35
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 4:19:17 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		I dont see it that way ProtagonistLily because people in a Master/slave relationship are supposed to be having a Dominant and submissive relationship, one surrenders to the control and authority of the other...the submissive/slave trusts that whatever lesson is dished out its for their benefit...even if that includes using a piece of jewelry that they have a very strong emotional attachment to.

Whereas a vanilla partnership does not have those agreed dynamics and taking a wedding ring would mean an entirely different thing. Vanilla people would not be willing to play "this is your lesson for today".

< Message edited by slavejali -- 3/30/2006 4:20:25 AM >

_____________________________

Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

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Profile   Post #: 36
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 4:32:49 AM   
PhoenixLM


Posts: 79
Joined: 5/12/2005
From: Fort Wayne, Indiana
Status: offline 		Removal of collar = end of relationship period.

Dominants who remove a collar have ended the relationship period. If they do it to end a relationship calling it punishment they are corwards.

My 2 cents worth.

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Phoenix
House Ds Haven
http://dshaven.com

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 4:45:46 AM   
MadamShy


Posts: 173
Joined: 3/21/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: IronBear

It's a common form of punishment in some areas of Gorean Role Play and it was used regularly in some BDSM rooms in the old MSN. Those using this form of puishgment were in the past the would-be-if-they-could-be-but-never-will crowd. I din't know what goes on therenow but it sounds like the same mentality.... It is Cruel and Unusual Punishment and the perpitrators need to gave their genitalia removed without anethesitic and publically IMO... 


which book was a collar taken off for punishment? as I find this interesting that you say collar off for punishment is gorean.


(in reply to IronBear)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 4:52:10 AM   
JohnWarren


Posts: 3807
Joined: 3/18/2005
From: Delray Beach, FL
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: MyCaptainsPet

In a group on Yahoo they are discussing the removal of collars as a form of punishment.

i don't know, this just disturbs me... My collar is a symbol of US and of what we are together. 

Anyone have any thoughts on this????



I don't use collars and I don't "punish" in the sense of using pain to try to change behavior.  However, if a submissive does something that displeases me, I'll tell her I'm displeased and ask her not to do it again.  If the behavior reoccurs, I will consider terminating the relationship and have done so in the past.

So, while I won't "remove a collar" for "punishment", what I do can be seen as an equivalent.  Of course, once it gets to that point, I'm not interested in changing behavior as I have no further interest in the particular person so it's not a matter of "removing" and "regranting" a collar which I think is the implication of the OP.

Sorry about all the quotes, but I think they are necessary for clarity and noting that some words have specific meanings in our world.

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(in reply to MyCaptainsPet)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Removing a collar as punishment.... - 3/30/2006 5:10:20 AM   
slavejali


Posts: 2918
Status: offline 		You know the more I think about this subject the more I feel people are puting vanilla concepts onto a Master/slave relationship. Like really, when you get down to the nitty gritty of it all, if we are really talking about a Master and slave, the Master can say "Heck I dont wanna see you wearing the collar today" if he wants, why does it have to be a reflection on the relationship? I dont get it. (I dont get a lot however hehe)

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Freedom in Bondage

Different Strokes for Different Folks

"I'll always have a *soft spot* for Sadists"

(in reply to JohnWarren)
Profile   Post #: 40
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