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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/3/2010 2:14:28 PM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
It's amazing how easily led people are (and want to be). They want to get out of the house more instead of gossiping behind twitching curtains.


Quite frankly for me it is much more amazing how certain people prefer to live their life in denial about reality...and I feel sorry for them

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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/3/2010 2:44:47 PM   
susie


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Having these kids around the workshop has certainly made us think about today's youth. They are all in their late teens and are at college locally studying car mechanics. We originally took them on for one day a week when they had day release from college. Slowly they started coming in more and more often because they saw their time at college as a waste of time. Although they were doing a course in car mechanics they very rarely had cars or even engines to work on. They all say that they have learnt so much more working in our company than they have in 3 years in college. Part of this is that my partner has invested time in them and listened to them. They now turn up on time, have opened up and are comfortable enough to be nicely cheeky.

Because they have opened up to us we have been able to talk to them sensibly about the problems local kids have. Part of the issue is that they have nowhere to go and nothing to do in the evenings. One of them has a girlfriend and they like to sit and listen to music together. As they both come from large families they are not able to do that at home so they go and sit in his car. Usually they are moved on 3 - 4 times a night until they give up and go off to their respective homes. The sad part is that one of the lads told us the other night that "its ok I am one of the lucky ones, I have a car to sit in".

This is one of the reasons we have been trying to set up a local meeting place for these kids however we have met with a fair amount of resistence from the local council. Our first approach to the police was met with a "you can get an order to move them on so they don't cause any bother to you", a great example of not listening to what we were trying to do and immediately assuming we had an issue with the kids.

It has made us even more determined to get something off the ground so that at least in our area there will be somewhere safe that they can go and that they feel they are a part of. Not sure if it will help any but we will see.

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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/3/2010 3:01:05 PM   
Dtesmoac


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I now travel in a wide variety of countries and the UK continues to be somewhere that your life is not threatened when you generally walk around in built up areas. In the evening it does have an unpleasent level of street drunkenness but then it is possible to find similar in many European Cities. Well off areas of the US are totally non threatening but a with the UK more deprived areas after dark feel very unsettling. The place I feel safest at night is actually in some of the lesser known cities in China. Worst experiences, out skirts of Chicago, San Paulo and Cape Town.
UK does have a problem with - I don't need to work or contribute culture though.  .

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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/3/2010 3:08:53 PM   
NorthernGent


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Phoenixpower


quote:

ORIGINAL: NorthernGent
It's amazing how easily led people are (and want to be). They want to get out of the house more instead of gossiping behind twitching curtains.


Quite frankly for me it is much more amazing how certain people prefer to live their life in denial about reality...and I feel sorry for them


The ultimate reality eh.....media-fuelled social conservatism. Not exactly what Plato and the Renaissance men had in mind when they promoted the imagination......there's no beauty in repeating that which you've been told by those with a vested interest.

Nice touch with the sympathy by the way.....generous to a fault!

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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/4/2010 6:24:52 AM   
Aneirin


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I had plans for my future post college, to set up my own smithy and because of the nature of the work, assistance would be needed, so I had ideas of finding a yob and offering them an apprenticeship of sorts, their assistance in return for everything I could teach them as I do know many who fail at college do so because of academia, many simply are not suited for the other crap that has to be part of a practical college course for it to exist. I myself struggle with the academia on my course, as I cannot understand wtf art history has to do with my craft, the lives and roles of the art critics and such etc. Anyway I have since given up that plan due to the new laws regarding those who come into contact with minors, no way am I subjecting myself to police checks and furthermore, paying for the privilege. Not that I have a past to hide, it is just that I disagree with the need to be vetted to offer hope to a young wayward individual.

I have found many who struggle with life do so because of issues of self worth, and contrary to perhaps government belief not everyone is cut out for exams, but they still need to be able to aspire. Many who I have known are highly skilled with their hands, would be craftspersons, artists perhaps but because nothing is now available that is pure craft they fall by the wayside. At one time we had an industry and an industry that made use of apprentices who later became fully indentured and highly skilled craftspersons in their own right, now all we have is college and where it may or may not lead. This county's degeneration into a service economy will be it's undoing, the ridding of our skils will come back and bite us in the ass, if it is not doing so already.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/4/2010 6:32:41 AM >


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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/4/2010 6:29:54 AM   
Vendaval


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stella, you provide an excellent social/political analysis as usual. susie, Aneirin, I wish you the best in your efforts to provide hands on training and positive role models to the younger persons in your communities. And best wishes on opening a safe social meeting place for them in the evenings.

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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/11/2010 1:36:08 PM   
LadyEllen


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And tonight, yet another incident with someone dying after decades of "anti-social behaviour", wherein the police did what they could but yet again the justice system as a whole let this man down as it is letting all of society down. http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/man+tormented+to+death+by+yobs+say+neighbours/3576957

Of course though, its all being overegged. After all there are only 3.6 million incidents reported per year to police, next to 4.5 million incidents of "real crime".

And its only "social conservatives" like me who see a problem too, with "high jinks" by "playful lads". Although it seems the Chief Inspector of Constabulary is equally daft, what with the report produced today that reckons the number of incidents is more like 7 million per year, with half going unreported due to the inablity of the authorities to do anything about it. http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/an+epidemic+of+anti+social+behaviour/3576157

E




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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/11/2010 3:13:56 PM   
Phoenixpower


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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
And its only "social conservatives" like me who see a problem too, with "high jinks" by "playful lads". E


Naaa, its not just you Lady E...I think apart from NG so far pretty much all the folks (at leat the ones who participate on here) see that, too....

the papers are full of it but after NG's theory we are only brain washed from the papers as we of course are unable to build up our own mind anyway and it is still very peaceful here...and because it is so peaceful here...thats also the reason why here

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/sep/17/harassed-family-police-inaction-blamed

the mother of a disabled kid killed herself and her kid after years of bullying from yobs...but that "only in the papers" so, not a problem and nowhere real if we follow NG's view

I guess that also must mean that one of the houses I work with must have put up their security around the house out of "wild imaginary threat" after quite a few attacks from yobs happened against the property due to the clients having a severe learning disability

And of course...having lived in two other countries before...I also have no idea how the general climate can actually feel different when it isn't as mad as in "merry old england."


< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 3/11/2010 3:30:33 PM >


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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/11/2010 3:48:08 PM   
LadyEllen


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Deine Selbsttaueschung ist ersichtlich Grund fuer Sorge PP...........

Aber Du weisst wie es geht nee? Er hat so ein guten Kenntnis des deutschen Volkes dass er alle Deiner Unruhe als einer Verpflichtung der preussischen Weltanschaung beschreiben wurde, sodass man Deine Meinung abschreiben wird.

E

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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/11/2010 4:17:48 PM   
Phoenixpower


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ganz genau Lady E....was weiss schon ich

Abgesehen vom kriminalitaetsproblem ist wahrscheinlich auch meine Meinung ueber die NHS nur aus verzerrter Berichterstattung und nicht weil ich mich in einigen Krankenhausaufenthalten zu Hause dort recht wohl versorgt gefuehlt habe wohingegen ich mich hier in Krankenhaeusern bereits als Gast unwohl fuehle und ein eigener kurzer Aufenthalt in 2004 darin auch nicht zu guter Meinung beigetragen hat...

oder...wie leute hier versorgt werden in Altenheimen und Behindertenheimen (war in einem Altenheim als Praktikumsplatz und arbeite in Behindertenheimen hier seit 4 jahren) ist auch nur ne wilde phantasie dass die Versorgung zu Hause besser ist wo wir zu gutem Grund ne 4jaehrige Ausbildung machen bevor wir auf diese Leute unbeaufsichtigt losgelassen werden....neee neee...hier ist alles toll und alles zum besten Standard, isn't it

Ich meine...da gab Research bestimmt auch ne volkommen falsche Darstellung dass die Versorgung auf dieser Ebene in anderen Europaeischen Laendern besser is?! (hier

http://www.cabinetoffice.gov.uk/media/cabinetoffice/social_exclusion_task_force/assets/publications_1997_to_2006/social_pedagogic_report.pdf

zu finden aber eher langweilig zu lesen wenn man nicht von diesem Fach ist)...wie dem auch sei...nichtsdestotrotz fand selbst diese Studie dass kids in care in merry old england end up much more likely in crime...als wenn sie von professionellem personal versorgt werden wie es in Daenemark und Deutschland der fall ist...da es sagt (p. 6)

quote:

Young people in England, compared to Denmark and Germany, were more likely to be out of education and/or employment, and at greater risk of teenage pregnancy and/or engagement in criminal activity.


Somit ist natuerlich alles nur in meiner Vorstellung und null praxis erfahrung (als Beispiel in diesem Bereich) wenn ich seit 10 jahren in dem Bereich arbeite und davon die haelfte in Deutschland (wo ich die 4jaehrige Ausbildung machen musste um mit schwierigen teenagern im Heim zu arbeiten) und die andere haelfte in England verbrachte und aktiv persoenlich eine art schock empfand als ich hier feststellte dass Leute nur verstaut sind in solchen Heimen, anstelle mit ihnen anstaendig gearbeitet wird wie das zu Hause der fall ist...oh ja....ich liebe meine Realitaetsverzerrung und habe natuerlich keine wirklichen Gruende weshalb es mich weiterzieht so bald wie moeglich (hoffentlich naechstes Jahr *seufz*)





< Message edited by Phoenixpower -- 3/11/2010 4:21:01 PM >


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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/11/2010 8:46:01 PM   
Aneirin


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I suppose when you have experienced so called antisocial behaviour ( juvenile terrorism)and destruction of your hard earned property, by youngsters, you might have a different view on things. Oh yes, it's around about that time you start wondering just exactly what are the police for.

But a word of warning to any who might say don't put up with it, give 'em a thick ear and all that, know this, they, the youngsters these days are well versed in their human rights and how the law can affect, or not affect them, so what the aim is, is to push a person into fighting back, and if they do not succeed in mob booting the crap out of you, they fall back on the law and then you discover what the police are there for.

What's the point fighting wars overseas to stop terrorism, when many in this country live in fear of the juvenile gangs the police ignore, for that is what it is when these gangs do what they do to people they single out to annoy, they terrorise them, a war of unending attrition and those that should be there to stop it couldn't care less. The authorities should learn something, like charity, policing starts at home first.


< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/11/2010 9:02:39 PM >


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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/12/2010 1:47:41 AM   
allthatjaz


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and this http://www.metro.co.uk/news/685350-female-gang-lashed-girl-16 on my old home turf. Its tough growing up in a place like this.

and this http://www.getsurrey.co.uk/news/s/2055302_ear_bitten_off_in_woking_gang_attack to a guy that worked in the office next door to mine.

We need to seriously start looking at why this happens.
Anywhere where youths are lacking a community, formalized activities or living in conditions that don’t teach and produce gratuitous forms of behavior are going to take the risk of tribal conflict.
Many inner cities in the UK lack regulated neighborhood communities. More and more kids are growing up without a father figure and most of us have lost our extended family. kids that are unharnessed are more likely to form gangs, stand around in groups on street corners and look for trouble.
Of course it doesn’t happen on every street corner and the majority of youths are good kids just trying to get by but to deny its not a problem is foolish.
I don’t think we should persuade ourselves that we can eliminate aggression, we can’t. It needs to be channeled and put to good use.

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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/12/2010 4:56:44 AM   
stella41b


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I'm sorry to say this but the way I see it this is nothing more than the chickens coming home to roost after years of cutbacks in the arts, culture, entertainment and sports together with cutbacks in funding for youth and community schemes.

It's clear that the ASBOs aren't working, and I also disagree with Aneirin that a 'thick ear' is the solution because it will only serve to deepen resentment and create further barriers. I don't care what anyone says, you can introduce as many laws as you like but these laws aren't going to be effective if they're not respected.

I feel that the only way forward is a cultural and sporting revolution based in the local community and the setting up of local community centres throughout the country using existing empty property where young people can meet to engage in activities such as music, theatre, film making, photography, art, and also sporting activities such as soccer, cricket and so on.

This is something we share with people in the United States and other English speaking countries - culture, and it's something that over the years both Americans and we have been successful at exporting. This doesn't necessarily need a lot of funding and investment, because one characteristic of our culture is that it is able to come out of poverty just as much as any other background.

Indeed, what music would we be listening to today if it wasn't for those in the poorer states of Mississippi, Tennessee and Lousiana and our own 'red brick' neighbourhoods in Manchester, Birmingham, Liverpool and Glasgow? Those council estates and streets which spawned bands like Simply Red, Oasis, and further back the Animals, the Beatles, etc are just as much a part of our heritage as places such as Oxford and Stratford upon Avon.

All this seems to have been taken over by reality TV and the media inspired 'celebrity culture' but this doesn't mean that there aren't young people out there making music or we have young people without any talent. They're out there making music, but it isn't getting heard because just as in the case of a lot of talented young people nobody is prepared to take an interest or make any sort of serious investment in the future.

This is where we start getting to the root of the problem - the demise and destruction of the subcultures which were so characteristic of young people in former generations.

If you have any doubts as to how culture and sport plays a crucial role in a nation's economy you only have to look at Ireland. If any government is really serious about tackling this anti-social behaviour then I feel they would also be serious about investing in a cultural and sporting revolution which would not only occupy a lot of the young people left hanging around with nothing to occupy their time with but also create further employment and provide something to drive our economy forward.


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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/12/2010 6:58:03 AM   
LadyEllen


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Aber PP - Du bist seit Jahren hier. Und Du verstehst nicht dass alles Britisches ist bestes? Das ist das Britische Reich, wo alles optimal behandelt wird, und alles von Ausland schaurig ist, und wahrscheinlich eine Verschwoerung gegen alles was gut und richtig (und britisch) ist, auch und insbesondern wenn es ersichtlich besser sei.

Mittlerweiler bin ich der gleichen Ahnung wie Du, und wenn meine Kinder nicht so weit in der Schule waren, wurde ich morgen emigrieren weil ich glaube dass die Sache hier zu weit gegangen ist um eine Rettung zu begruenden zu koennen.

Es ist nicht dass ich Ausland als Paradis ansiehe, aber dass ich GB als verloren. Gluecklicherweise, wegen meiner Abeit habe ich Gelegenheit auszuwandern und aufs neue ein Leben irgendwoander zu machen.

E  

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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/12/2010 7:23:31 AM   
LadyEllen


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I would agree wholeheartedly Stella - this is a problem that is rooted in cultural changes for the worse, though I would also add to that the economic upheavals we've seen in recent decades.

I would expect that NG regards me as being of the same ilk as Norman Tebbitt when I talk about the thuggery and its associated problems to be found throughout the country, and thats primarily because, as it would appear, he's rooted in that left/right paradigm that is becoming rapidly outdated.

Yes, we have to make the justice system work better where it is needed - clearly it has failed and is failing across the board in this instance, but that doesnt necessarily mean we should have the gangs of louts hanged from the nearest tree or birched within an inch of their lives.

Sure, in some serious and repeat cases a clear message must be sent that criminal behaviour (which is what this is) means heavy sanctions, but in most cases I would argue it needs something far less draconian and aimed at turning these youngsters on to something better to do with their time - but that would require investment from the public purse being diverted to such anticipatory prevention, and a different approach from authority as regards adults leading activities, ie that they are not all instantly under suspicion of being paedos simply because they'd like to run a football team, or (in my case) would like to run an airgun club for youngsters to teach them responsibility, discipline and so on surreptitiously by way of something so attractive to them (weapons) that I'd have a waiting list a mile long.

But then I think that identifies a third source for the malaise - this risk averse nanny state approach. If we want to divert youngsters then we have to provide activities that appeal to them - basically anything dangerous that we can provide under adult supervision. An airgun club would send the authorities into a frenzy of panic, as would a go-karting club or stock car racing club. Yet this is the sort of thrill these problem youngsters are seeking and table tennis at the youth club under the guidance of some idiot trying to be a friend to the kids just doesnt cut it.

And then, if we want to have these young adults enter society and have a sense of purpose and a sense that they can achieve and aspire, we have to recognise that not everyone is cut out for the service economy. If Germany can manufacture then so can we and after the banking problems we have to. These are not idiot jobs either, but proper jobs with a future, such that youngsters are encouraged to get the requisite practical skills and qualifications to obtain jobs that are relevant to their aptitudes, not left thinking that there is no point because they couldnt stand working in a bank or a shop.

Someone once said that you can judge a society by how it treats its young and its old, and one might add its infirm. PP provided a good overview (albeit in German) of the way we score here as compared to other EU nations and we are dreadful. Again this indicates a need to change the way we see things as a nation and I would venture to say that for too long we have paid far too much attention to the very few who are successful and healthy in life and written off anyone who doesnt match up as if that is a moral failing on their parts, rather than a moral failing on all our parts to a point in electing governments unsuited to the task of putting things right.
E

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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/12/2010 7:33:47 AM   
Aneirin


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Firstly, I did not advocate violence to children, give 'em a thick ear, it is the usual response from people who have not experienced any of what we say here, people who have not experienced believe the old ideas will work and that those that complain of youth terror problems are being weak. Believe it, the youth we have now, are not the youth we were.

But what has changed in that time, basically everything, the world we knew has gone to be replaced with what we have now which because of our greater communication, is a world of fear, we have learned to fear things that in the past we would be oblivious to. If fear is an underlying problem one has to ask, if fear is in the hearts of those that gang together and attack the weaker than themselves. To many, fear is a dirty word, no one likes to admit it, so hide it deep and by doing so,is the resultant aggression ?

The youth we have now, are probably the highest educated in life that we have ever had, they know so much at such a young age, and if by being so educated, could the  draw of life be somewhat dulled, I mean they know many things many adults are still learning, could it be if one knows it all, the interest and draw to do it is not there.

Some say give the youths more to do, take them on holidays, give them opportunities, rock climbing, outward bound, and the ever important cultural activities, all well and good, it is an industry in itself, but it has problems. Try combining health and safety regulations with these activities, they result in a situation one can see the potential, but cannot extend themselves because of  laws, which is in Britain yet another industry. Then we have the suspicion that every male that wants to work with youths is a suspected paedophile and to clear themselves they have to pay to be checked out, the result of which is many highly qualified one time youth adventure instructors will not get involved, not because of a past, or interest, but because of the supposition that they are dodgy for wanting to help people. We have created a supposition that paedophiles are thick on the ground, and  around every corner, older males especially feel not wanted, and so will not give their time.

Then we have the break up of the council house community, for many say it is bad, but it is not, it is just different, from experience I understand many who were dwellers of council houses were poorer, they could not afford to get on the housing ladder, so did the best they could do with cheap rented accomodation, the satellite tv dishes and big cars many say show people not as poor as they make out, understand something, when you have to live there, why not make it the best you can, why spend out on a tough mortgage, one you could not afford anyway, just get on with life and have the peripherals everyone else seems to get. The council house community, as it was, and is still in some places, is a community, people still help each other out, and are largely of the same level of living conditions and have the same problems, so they can relate. Now because of the flawed idea that people should buy their own homes, they did at a vastly reduced value, some stayed, but most got the hell out at a massive profit and in moved non council house mentality, who by and large were different, they kept themselves to themselves, working and buying, enhancing their property until it becomes a jewel in a sea of shit, what a target for the disgruntled in society.

Other estates if not of high private ownership become dumping grounds, places where immigrants are dumped, they come here knowing nothing and are thrown in with the poor. Now the immigrants are different and that itself makes them a target, as to why should an indigenous person or family be waiting in say bed and breakfast accomodation for years, on a list to get a council property and there see an immigrant walk in and take what they feel should be theirs, as it is apparently law that a council has to house immigrants first. Also it was noted that when council properties are considered unfit for human habitation and were there left boarded up and empty, along comes an immigrant and suddenly there is a team of workers beavering away sorting the place out.

What I think regarding the youth problem, is they are picking up the feelings of their parents, when a parent feels threatened, angered or sees injustice, it rubs off on the child, the child then has these problems themselves and nwhere necessary, takes action, perhaps it is a case of the children are acting on their parent's behalf, their parent can just moan, but they can act, the result of which moaning gets no respect, only action can work.

The blame as I see it can be laid squarely at the feet of the politicians that created this new society, this experiment, starting with the cut throat wealth gathering mentality of the 1980's. I say experiment, because what has happened, the smashing of the unions followed by the smashing of industry and then the smashing of the industry workers society, if you can't get them out, breed them out.

The offspring, all they do, is feel their parents pain.

A brave new world perhaps, but one that those who come up with the ideas and implement the changes are largely seperate from.




< Message edited by Aneirin -- 3/12/2010 7:46:35 AM >


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RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/12/2010 7:59:58 AM   
LadyEllen


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I disagree that it started in the 80s A, though I certainly believe that period had a marked and long lasting effect.

I believe it started much earlier than this, and this is not a slam against immigrants before anyone jumps on it, but a slam on the multi-cultural experiment that has failed utterly - otherwise why should it need propping up? There is of course nothing wrong with everyone having a cultural identity (and many good things with it) and their particular ethnicity or religion is fine by me - much of the social freedom I enjoy today to be a transsexual heathen, derives from the opening of society to such variety.

Where it all went wrong, as far as this problem is concerned, is in the way that multi-culturalism has been pushed, and more specifically in the way it has resulted in a loss of identity to the aboriginal population, who have been told over decades that their identity, their culture, their way of life are second class to others by the very mechanism which sought to educate and inform them of others and promote welcome to immigrants. It is my suspicion that this has resulted in a sense of disenfranchisment, of having no stake in society that leads to problems, and equally,  in a sense that morality is a relative notion accomodating a wide variety of interpretations with the natural conclusion that morality is meaningless and that one may do and say as one pleases according to one's own view and authority. That common moral fabric that once held communities together has been damaged and in some instances totally dismantled, with the authority of government - and consequently we then need laws to tell us how to behave which to our grandparents would seem bizarre since such was simply part of life in their times.

We really, truly need a new start in this country all round - and the agreement of a common morality between all must be part of that recipe, as well as a new British identity that includes all in a society and economy that includes all and works to unite us as fellow citizens rather than divide us as socio-economic marketing groups.

E

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Profile   Post #: 37
RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/12/2010 9:27:51 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
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quote:

ORIGINAL: LadyEllen
Gluecklicherweise, wegen meiner Abeit habe ich Gelegenheit auszuwandern und aufs neue ein Leben irgendwoander zu machen.

E  


Freut mich zu hoeren dass Du auch die Moeglichkeit hast. Falls ich im Sommer nun meinen Abschluss habe dann geht meine visum Bewerbung raus nach Neuseeland und Canada und was auch immer zuerst reinkommt, dahin werde ich ziehen...da ich definitiv keine Kinder hier grossbringen moechte und auch definitiv nicht einmal hier eine Geburt durchmachen werde mit Berichterstattungen wie z. B. dass da mal ne Frau stirbt weil das Personal ne Maschine falsch verwendete und die somit Sauerstoff aus ihrem Koerper entzogen anstelle zuzufuegen, oder ein anderes Beispiel in dem eine Frau im Geburtsbecken ertrank, da sie fuer 45 Minuten alleingelassen wurde obwohl bekannt war dass sie dazu neigt ohnmaechtig zu werden...hah...neee Danke, ich hoffe niemals mehr ein Krankenhaus hier von innen erleben zu muessen als Patient...

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RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 38
RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/12/2010 9:42:34 AM   
stella41b


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Joined: 10/16/2007
From: SW London (UK)
Status: offline
Agreed LadyEllen.

This is why I feel personally at the moment like I'm living in a time warp because I'm doing exactly the same stuff as I was doing in Poland in 1995 and even looking around me here in London I see pretty much the same apathy and social disharmony as there was back then in the early years of the Polish transition from what was to what is today.

That is, except for one difference, the influence of the Polish Catholic Church, traditionally seen as the political opposition, was still very strong, as was the influence of the Polish Solidarity movement, and for all its shortcomings this gave the Poles that moral backbone and sense of belonging that is so much lacking here.

I used to be one of those people who blamed Thatcher, and then Major (way back when I was selling copies of Socialist Worker outside the local Underground station) but I've witnessed people blaming Blair, now Brown, the government, and if he gets in I'm prepared to put money on people blaming David Cameron and his government three or four years on from now.

But LadyEllen is right I feel when it comes down to this enforced multiculturalism and diversity. We were already a multicultural society and have been since the partitioning of the Indian subcontinent in 1947 and the invitations extended to people from the Caribbean after the Second World War, we didn't need it to be forced upon us. The lack of coloured faces in the City and in the performing arts and media isn't the result of racism but a lack of awareness, where the awareness comes through development and evolution. You can see this in the black community where young black people are rejecting the messages of their elders to be 'bad' because they want to get ahead in life much the same as everyone else. This is why there's not much racial tension any more between those of Caribbean ancestry and those of African ancestry and this is a lesson which still needs to be learned in the white community between the indigenous Brits and the Eastern European migrants.

There's going to come a time when we run out of people to blame, to point the finger at, a time when we're going to have to look at ourselves - the people, to take stock, admit that it hasn't gone as well as it could have, and to start taking responsibility and coming together and working together. We cannot go on living in the past, we cannot go on living with our delusions of grandeur, the British Empire is finished and if we're not careful we're going to be finished along with it.

I honestly believe that that time is now, it's here, and it's a time when we need to start living in the present, taking responsibility and working together to rebuild society from the bottom up.

We've tried over the past thirty years or so to create a new society from the top down and it's only worked for the fortunate few. The rest of us are either struggling to make ends meet, struggling to find a new livelihood, and there's a lot of people who are stuck in dead end jobs and worse, a number of people who are stuck in benefit traps and even worse, people who have been left with nothing and who are homeless.

Nothing is going to change, not the government, not the media, not anybody else until we - the people - start changing and start doing rather than complaining and expecting it to be done by someone else.

The sooner the better is all I can say. 


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(in reply to LadyEllen)
Profile   Post #: 39
RE: Life in Merry Old England - a snapshot - 3/12/2010 10:15:14 AM   
Phoenixpower


Posts: 8098
Status: offline
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARrrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhhh...now I wrote a damn long reply and it vanished

have to write that one later again, right now I am too tired of having to do it again

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RIP 08-09-07

The PAST is history, the FUTURE a mystery, NOW is a gift - that's why it's called the PRESENT

www.butyoudontlooksick.com/navigation/BYDLS-TheSpoonTheory.pdf

(in reply to stella41b)
Profile   Post #: 40
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